OK - MOT due, needed by Friday and many places booked so no option but to use the local well know tyre fitting outfit.
Mrs K takes it in, chap comes out with "Its failed emissions". He can clear it with a DPF re-gen for £150. She calls me, I say we agreed to say no as it feels like a rip-off. FFS, if the local motorway wasn't the M25 and riddled with camera's I'd have taken it for an Italian tune up/DPF regen on the road. Plus, there's no regen warning light lit up. On a hunch I book it with a small local garage today. It passes.
Now, if you put the two reports together, all the tested numbers are very different. But on the former although it has the Reg, they haven't populated make, model, VIN etc. Did they put an old smoker on the machine to get £150 out of us hence why the didn't fill in the paperwork?
A written complaint and request for a refund depends on your responses...
Aren't MOT testing stations all linked up by computermabob these days?
Surely there're checks in the system to require all the car's details to be input?
That MOT failure'll be logged on the DVLA website for ever and ever now.
They could of easily put all the details in and still put a different vehicle on the tester so wouldn't say that's the reason
I don't think you would ever 100 percent know for sure but it's easy to rev is a bit harder or longer and the reading is usually higher
What was the reading on the fail sheet?
£150 is expensive for regen though
Sounds dodgy.
If they haven't populated the vehicle details, how would the machine know what the test criteria are for that vehicle?
An easy way to fail emissions is to test without getting the engine up to temperature. Would it get fully warmed up on the way to the 'tyre place', and was it left or done while she waited?
Big chains and having a woman take the car in, it's unfortunate but I'd say they tried to take advantage.
Well done to avoid the sting. You lose nothing writing to the manager to complain but view anything you get as a bonus I reckon.
Surely you have no recourse here. If I took my car for an MOT and it Failed and then I took it to another and it Passed who is to say which one is correct.
Maybe small local garage are not following the rules and you are now driving a car not fit to be on the road?
Maybe the car did a re-gen on its own on the drive between garages?
I'm not saying you are wrong but its also wrong to assume the first garage was the one at fault?
sounds a bit dodgy and right to take it up with them.
Our previous car would get passed (eventually) by the tame MOT garage used by the independent garage we took it to. Didn't always pass, would need work most times. Seemed fair enough. Then one year - we'd moved north - MOT at local garage (with no axe to grind). Complete and utter failure. Loose steering column (it'd always done that). They wouldn't even 'fix it just for a 6 month period'. Wouldn't let me drive it away. So no idea what was going on previously. It sounds dodgy but not sure what the scam was - I think the original garage didn't want too many failures as the car'd get scrapped.
The distance to the Tyre place is 2 miles, so not properly warmed. The readings have different titles so I don't know how to translate. Thier readings:
Oil temp 80 degrees
Smoke readings Peak 1 to 6 with an average of 0.98 against a max limit of 0.54 so a fail.
Today at the Indy, 1 mile away:
Engine temp 80:
Test limit applied 1.50lm
Absorbtion co efficient 1.56lm @ 3220 l/min, 1.16lm @ 2765 l/mon 0.65l/m @2310 l/min
Mean Absorption coefficient 0.81 l/m (same after correction)
On a diesel there's 2 smoke values.
You've the plate value which is a low figure, alot of older cars have had this rendered illegible (read scratched off)so they use the default for year which is much higher.
Ask how they know it failed emissions if the vehicle details were not entered into the machine.
Its tested on a higher limit.
Or
Tyre fitters give it beans 2 or 3 times but not enough to drop the particulate count
You drive it more enthusiasticly to second place, they hook it up whilst hot and give it beans #4 & #5 this is enough to clear the soot
Or
Its done a regen betwixt tests un be known to you, maybe
As to regards the MOT
It's got measured items n standards such as tyre depth, emissions etc but the rest is testers discretion and opinion.
So 1 tester feels some float in a ball joint deams it save but covers it on an advisory because its safe and will not immediately fail.
Tester 2 Mark's as major fail
Who's right?
I've deleted this post, it was all wrong. Sorry.
You’ve the plate value which is a low figure, alot of older cars have had this rendered illegible (read scratched off)so they use the default for year which is much higher.
Its tested on a higher limit.
I think this is it. The "Tyre Place" does say Plated Value @ 0.54, the other "Test Limit" of 1.50. I googled this and the "2008" value is much higher - the second garage used the latter.
Well, its having a service first week September under a service plan so on the basis it'll be paid for I'll ask for a regen as well, although I am taking it open 160 mile round trip on the 30th which is the only time it'll be driven before then, so not too planet destroying.
Tyre place has done it correctly...
The distance to the Tyre place is 2 miles, so not properly warmed. The readings have different titles so I don’t know how to translate. Thier readings:
Oil temp 80 degrees
Smoke readings Peak 1 to 6 with an average of 0.98 against a max limit of 0.54 so a fail.
Today at the Indy, 1 mile away:
Engine temp 80:
Test limit applied 1.50lm
Absorbtion co efficient 1.56lm @ 3220 l/min, 1.16lm @ 2765 l/mon 0.65l/m @2310 l/min
Mean Absorption coefficient 0.81 l/m (same after correction)
To me that reads like the reading is in the region of 0.98 to 0.81, the limit should have been 0.54 for your car, the new garage has fudged it with the limit based on the car age which is always higher (e.g. you could buy a euro 5 engine before they were mandatory).
nealglover
Subscriber
Ask how they know it failed emissions if the vehicle details were not entered into the machine.
Its probably not that clever to have a database of every car ever registered. Hence how plenty of places will pass them based on the age based limits because the plate was obscured, or the manual missing etc.
If they haven’t populated the vehicle details, how would the machine know what the test criteria are for that vehicle?
That makes in a null and void test to my mind.
Although I agree, the Indy hasn't done it incorrectly just differently I found this on DVLA:
If the smoke level reading is greater than 1.5m-1, a further two accelerations will be requested by the meter. Provided the average of the 3 tests is at or below the appropriate limit in Table 3, and the three results are within a specified tolerance of each other, the vehicle will have passed the test. The Tester will stop the engine and remove the smoke meter probe from the tailpipe.
Passenger cars and light commercial vehicles – first used on or after 1 July 2008 = 1.5m (Diesel Turbo).
Hence the 3 x numbers at the Indy with an average of 0.81, aka a pass, and you can see the longer the test goes on for, the lower the numbers. Our car hadn't warmed up, and perhaps thats why it was over at the start.
Anyway so "Tyre Place" has been lazy and guilty of up-selling on fear at worst.
It's a Ford kuga diesel isn't it?
If so, you can buy a obdii dongle plus app (called forscan) for your phone and you can force a regen yourself, probably cheaper and easier than paying someone to do It for you
Yes, thanks for the tip Julians
Try putting your reg in below and see what comes up.
Might need a few days to get it through the system but it will show if the first garage actually entered it as I believe they need to do in order to tell you it's failed.
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/?_ga=2.40933220.757075237.1597235947-1559479959.1596475917
edit, sorry that's to check if it has an MOT and Tax.
To check the history it's below.
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
You could take the old test to the indy and ask them to explain it?
If you're unhappy with the initial test and you want a fair MOT done, take it to a council MOT test centre.
Because there is no vested financial interest in the upsell from failure, you'll know you're getting a fairly spot on test, in addition to a consistent one given it is council run.
Take a look here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-mot/
How were the tyre garage proposing to carry out the regen?
i.e. By what method.
How were the tyre garage proposing to carry out the regen?
Invoking the test by ODB I think, e.g. it sitting on a ramp at revs for a while doing what it does.
Try putting your reg in below and see what comes up.
Tyre centre had officially failed it.
How were the tyre garage proposing to carry out the regen?
Three junctions of the M6. (-:
Being a council mot tester in a previous life we used to get loads of cars in for a second opinion mot test. Most of the time they passed.
My own vw engined diesel has not been put on the smoke tester for the last two mot's as it won't rev when stood still and therefore the machine can't sence anything so it gets a visual check.
Hence the 3 x numbers at the Indy with an average of 0.81, aka a pass, and you can see the longer the test goes on for, the lower the numbers. Our car hadn’t warmed up, and perhaps thats why it was over at the start.
Doesn't explain why the first garage set the limit at 0.54. One of the garages has used the wrong limit. My money is on the first garage using the correct limit for the car, the new one has used the age-related one.
Also, it says the "peak of readings 1-6" which to me would imply the first garages machine was doing an average of multiple accelerations?
What does the plate on the car say?
From .gov:
The amended limits to be applied from 20 May 2018 are:
1. First used before July 2008 None turbo 2.5m-1 or plate value if lower
Turbo 3.0m-1 or plate value if lower
2. First used on or after 1 July 2008 All diesels 1.5m-1 or plate value if lower
3. First used on or after 1 January 2014 All diesels 0.7m-1 or plate value if lower
Note: Plate value is the emission limit specified by the vehicle manufacturer and can be found on the vehicle manufacturer’s plate. If there’s no emission value on the manufacturer’s plate or it can’t be located, then the alternative default values must be used.
Actually, I just googled ford kuga diesel 2008 smoke limit assuming it's about that old based on the 1.5 figure the second garage used.
Which brings up :
https://www.kugaownersclub.co.uk/threads/new-mot-rules-emmissions-problems.12829/
and:
Took my 2010 Mk1 2.0L diesel for an MOT yesterday - amazed that it failed on emissions. The old rules said below 1.7 or something, but the new rules that came in a couple of weeks ago say it must be the same as the figure on the VIN plate - which on mine is 0.54 which is I assume what it was when new.
So there you go, unless your car is different to the google find, the new indie has fudged it to pass and the tire place has done it properly.
Note that many older( early euro rated) cars couldn't make their plate value from factory.
Land rover products were notorious for thism