In other words, it is still the retailer's property. By deliberately withholding something that belongs to the retailer, he is therefore stealing it.
Except they're saying he can't send it back.
Send them an invoice for storing it for them.
Except they're saying he can't send it back.
Because he's used it.
Morally, you're right, he should cough up. Strictly speaking, there's no sale contract, so the idea of 'use it it's yours' doesn't really apply. I can't see any legally-defined responsibility to look after the goods or their packaging.
If anything, by sending goods unsolicited (which is what has happened - the OP cancelled his order, he didn't want the goods or have a contract to receive them, they sent them anyway), and then demanding payment, the company is the one which has already committed a criminal offence under consumer law.
deliveryman unwrapped it didn't he? if it's worn or soiled* then I can see them refusing return, if it's still in mint condition then they should accept a return (assuming the OP makes up his mind and decides whether he wants to keep it or not)Because he's used it.
as I mentioned before, everytime I order something and there's been a problem be it my item not sent out, wrong item sent out, 2 items sent out, it's always "a computer glitch" it's never "that dozy ****er Dave in dispatch screwed up again, he'll be for the high jump this time"One unknown consequence is the fate of the staff member who is responsible for you getting £600 worth of stock for free.
Can anyone clarify whether this does actually happen or is it just a line that's trotted out whenever this sort of thing happens?
*I know my kids could trash a sofa in a day but I'm sure normal people can manage to have a sofa in their house for a couple of weeks without causing it any discernible distress.
[quote=martinhutch ]Morally, you're right, he should cough up. Strictly speaking, there's no sale contract, so the idea of 'use it it's yours' doesn't really apply. I can't see any legally-defined responsibility to look after the goods or their packaging.
If anything, by sending goods unsolicited (which is what has happened - the OP cancelled his order, he didn't want the goods or have a contract to receive them, they sent them anyway), and then demanding payment, the company is the one which has already committed a criminal offence under consumer law.
Except it was sent by mistake, hence it's not unsolicited under the terms of the law (there has to be an intent for it to be unsolicited). For items sent by mistake there is also a duty to care for the goods - clearly you're not required to inconvenience yourself to do so, but it wouldn't have inconvenienced the [s]troll[/s] OP to have left it in an unused state. I think he probably is entitled to send it back, but the shop is also entitled to charge him for the difference in value between a new and used one. I'll take a shot in the dark and guess that's approximately £600.
Personally I'd punish the errant staff member by making them deal with peter1979 (maybe that's what's happening already).
I'm still confused.
The OP actually [i]wants[/i] to own the item.
He's just trying to get away without paying for it.
In fact he's so keen on it that if he can get shot of the one he has he's going to go out and pay full retail price for an identical item from the same shop.
It all now seems to revolve around him being a bit disgruntled 'cos the woman on the phone wasn't sufficiently obsequious to his wife?
Maybe the woman on the phone is getting a bit shirty as they've now made two phone calls to your wife who is deliberately stalling on finding an acceptable solution to the problem.
It all now seems to revolve around him being a bit disgruntled 'cos the woman on the phone wasn't sufficiently obsequious to his wife?
Isn't it more the fact that the company told him/his wife/etc that they couldn't send it back, that raised his ire?
thought just occurred, what if there's a sneaky company policy with any cancelled orders they deliver item anyway get the driver to unwrap it then refuse to let it be returned as it's used?Except it was sent by mistake, hence it's not unsolicited under the terms of the law (there has to be an intent for it to be unsolicited)
Guess you'd have to gamble on the amount of people who would refuse a "free" sofa and how many of those would get all legal when you said "sorry no returns"
not saying that's what happened here, doosuk's theory sounds a little more likely given the circumstances
[quote=Jamie ]Isn't it more the fact that the company told him/his wife/etc that they couldn't send it back, that raised his ire?
Yes it does seem so. Despite the fact he wants to keep it. Which is just one of the points in this [s]fable[/s] story which doesn't add up.
his problem is that he accepted the goods "cool Free sofa" knowing they were not his he has never raised any issue until he got caught . So he has appropriated the property of someone else with the intention of permanently depriving them of it , one tends not to give thieves the option of returning property they have used and reduced in value so that they can avoid any sanction.
As to no contract Delivery man turns up at door expecting to deliver sofa in knowledge that it has been paid for or is to be paid for wife receives sofa in knowledge that the delivery man is expecting to be paid . is that "I have this sofa for you as part of a commercial transaction do you want it " yes I do ", both parties aware the price is £600 . so offer acceptance valuable consideration and delivery of goods from one party to another . so a binding contract evidenced by conduct or a criminal fraud by wife.
My sister ran into a car on her bike when she was a kid, bit of wrangling, our dad went round with a cheque for the damage (scratch + minor dent) owner of vehicle pissed off my dad so much the cheque stayed in his pocket, never paid out. He's also refused selling his landy when buyer dicked him about - to his loss in the end. This stuff sometimes happens.Yes it does seem so. Despite the fact he wants to keep it.
All that legal mumbo jumbo, crankboy. What do you know, you're not a lawyer - clearly the OP and everybody else on this thread suggesting it's unsolicited goods are better informed than you.
We ordered a Barbie electric toothbrush once. They sent me one box of toothbrushes. I sold them to the lads at work for their kids. Will I go to prison?
It was harder than I thought to find the relevant legal bit - all I could find was talk of 'unsolicited goods' with a very broad definition which seemed to fit the OP's circumstances exactly.
I've now found the legally-defined responsibility to look after goods sent in error. (Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977) if anyone's interested...and it's u-turn time.
So while he should be able to send it back if he wants, if the company were spectacularly arsey, they could in theory pursue him separately for any loss of value of the item through unwrapping, putting it up and sleeping on it.
He also had a legal responsibility to inform the company of their mistake ASAP.
So, all in all, legally, morally, or whatever, OP should ring Grotbags back, and pay for his sofa.
Aracer 😉
Thief, and some poor scapegoat is going to lose his job over this.
That's what happens.
i keep thinking the OP is WATSONTONY in disguise!!
Have you used it yet?
You have accepted a delivery you knew had been cancelled. THat is where you have committed fraud.
You (or your wife) may need to pay or risk prosecution. Knowingly accepting goods you knew were not paid for is an offence.
Do the right thing!
Delivery man turns up at door expecting to deliver sofa in knowledge that it has been paid for or is to be paid for wife receives sofa in knowledge that the delivery man is expecting to be paid
This reminds me of a movie I saw once, where the lady didn't have any money to pay the delivery guy, but he still went away happy... could be another option for the OP?
just playing devils advocate here, my mrs accepts bike stuff I've ordered all the time, she's no idea whether it's a legit order or one I've cancelled. If something I've cancelled turns up and the company try saying we're wilfully trying to defraud them and to pay up or else, well I might get a bit peeved.Knowingly accepting goods you knew were not paid for is an offence.
Well, it appears the furniture company's customer service department operate a 'good cop, bad cop' system. Very clever. My wife phoned and spoke to a different woman to Grotbags today, a lady who couldbt have been more nice apparently.
She appologised for the error and said the dispatch team sent it in error as the order had not been cancelled on the system correctly. She asked if we would be willing to pay for it. My wife obliged and the sofa has become slightly less comfy and I've already noticed a small stain on it.
I pray to jebus that we don't have any faults with it.
Anyway, cheers for all the support guys. I know that you will all be slightly upset that we caved in and paid for it, but I guess when it came down to it I just couldn't carry on living the lie.
Well, it appears the furniture company's customer service department operate a 'good cop, bad cop' system
Standard procedure in most furniture shops.
Anyway, cheers for all the support guys. I know that you will all be slightly upset that we caved in and paid for it, but I guess when it came down to it I just couldn't carry on living the lie.
I won't lie. I'm pretty angry right now. Not even an attempt at haggling?
You just paid for it? After all that?
You give in too easily. Spineless.
Jamie
I won't lie. I'm pretty angry right now. Not even an attempt at [s]haggling?[/s] posting a funny picture.
The disappoint all round is strong here.
I'm shocked at these responses. I consider myself a man of morals.
Plus, I had a free TV from them a few years ago so it evens itself out a little.
To paraphrase bill hicks, my hump of righteous ire has been suitably filled. Thank you 🙂
Glad you took my advice.. I knew it would be for the best.
Did you not even get the new, lower, sale price? Suckers.
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Seconded.
5.1mb?
Blimey.
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