Ok so some minor details have been changed to protect their identities but the story goes like this.
Just recently decorated the back room and wanted to get a piece of furniture in there in time for christmas gathering. Bought said piece of furniture from well known high street department store as it was advertised that it would be delivered by christmas.
The day after purchase my wife receives a phone call saying sorry we are out of stock, so we decided to get a refund and try elsewhere. Refund given and a new similar piece of furniture bought from a similarly well know high street furniture store.
A few days before christmas both pieces of furniture arrive within 1 day of each other. My wife, not knowing why its happened gladly accepts both and we check to make sure that furniture item 1 was refunded, which it was. So we decide we prefer the look of furniture item 1 and process a collection and refund for item 2. Item 2 collected and refunded.
So we are now +1 item at no cost (item value approximately £600) and feeling not too guilty about it really. Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busy and could they 'call back later?'. Since then she has had a voicemail asking if she could call back but no further calls or police at the door or such.
So my question is. Am I a thief? Can I keep the item, or can they call the rozzers on me? What would you have done?
Pete
Yes you are a thief
You have 1 dishonestly appropriated property
2 belonging to another
3 with the intention of permantly depriving them of it.
Thief, thief 🙂
I have been in a similar situation in the past and got to keep the item. However it wasn't £600 worth to be fair. I would sit it out and see what happens
Yup, it meets the definition of Section 1 of the Theft Act;
"Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive..."
If you want to keep the bit of furniture you like, just pay for it and it becomes yours.
Yes.
I wouldn't make a point of contacting them, but I wouldn't ignore them if they tried to contact me incase they do try and take it further, worse case scenario is you have to pay for the one you preferred, hopefully they give up and you get it for free.
You've deprived a highly-taxed business of £600.
You dont feel bad about it?
And you've had to ask the question. Who taught you you morals, your parents?
Email them, I have had companies reply 'thanks for letting us know, just keep it though'. Keep email plus be not a thief.
hora - MemberYou've deprived a highly-taxed business of £600.
You dont feel bad about it?
And you've had to ask the question. Who taught you you morals, your parents?
No I dont really. Would you? I think the parents thing is a bit harsh.
Wouldn't it fall under the 'unsolicited gift' bit of the law?
Yes, you have an item that came to you through dishonest means. A sin of omission right enough, but still very wrong.
Phone the company and explain that it was a misunderstanding between you and your wife, you are very sorry and offer to pay for it.
Would I feel guilty ? I would have burst into flames by now, but then I was raised to believe that lying and stealing are wrong.
I'd have phoned them up, but then I'm honest and not a thief.
I would have burst into flames by now, but then I was raised to believe that lying and stealing are wrong.
I know, kids these days. They even have to ask if stealing is wrong....
I'd be worried what else my wife was up to if she was as dishonest as that. Paternity test?
If they hadn't noticed I probably wouldn't bring it up, but wouldn't ignore them if they called me.
Edit: didn't realise it was £600 would definitely call then
No I dont really. Would you? I think the parents thing is a bit harsh.
Presumably that means you think your parents have better morals than you then?
Well, you ought to either pay or return it but it doesn't appear that you set out with intent. You should have told the delivery person that it had been cancelled but I can imagine how, on the spot as it were you didn't do that. You've created some bad karma for yourselves here but I cant't imagine you will get into trouble. The warehouse dispatch person may get spoken to though!
Harsh? Ask your mums opinion. Mine would be pissed off with me. I imagine yours would too.
Its just weird that you had to ask. I walked out of a B&B yesterday and realised after I'd left that I hadnt paid (I went back)
I'm not a preachy sort (I don't think!) but:
Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busy and could they 'call back later?'
..as you were typing those words, did it not actually register how wrong that is??
Fine. Be a thief if you want. It's your choice. But don't moan if someone nicks your bike.
Right, I've got a rope, anyone else up for a lynching?
Another vote for unsolicited goods here!
As Easy girl says a well and truly a thief!
"OP in sticking his old fella in a hornets nest and acting surprised when it gets stung shocker*
The fact you're making a concerted effort to now avoid paying for it makes you both a thief and devoid of morality. Shame on you and your wife frankly.
Yes, I think it's theft and no I wouldn't keep it.
Shame on you and your wife frankly.
Odd name for a wife.
If they didn't chase me up I'm not convinced I'd fess up, and I don't think I'd feel bad about it either. Its not like a small private business.
but.... if they realised their mistake and chased me up asking to pay I would, no questions.
Harsh? Ask your mums opinion. Mine would be pissed off with me. I imagine yours would too.
They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer. The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story. You suddenly think you could save yourself a few hundred quid here, maybe spend it on something else instead!
I once went to my bank (in the days before there were cash machines on every street corner) and withdrew £50. Got back to work and found I'd been give £100. I took the £50 back, realising the poor bank clerk would have been in serious trouble if I hadn't done so. So, OP, do the right thing here.
They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer.
Ah, I'm going with troll. 😉
They were disappointed when I told them, but when I asked what they would have done they couldnt reach an agreed answer. The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story. You suddenly think you could save yourself a few hundred quid here, maybe spend it on something else instead!
No, I'm sorry there is no way I could happily steal £600 through any means from anyone, whether they are a large multi national company or otherwise. It's theft and morally bankrupt.
How about this scenario. They realise you have the goods, contact you again but it's not convenient for you to take the call. The company go to debt recovery specialist, who charge interest, notify the credit rating agencies and eventually the sheriff officers force entry to your home.
It was an error rather than intent but you have their goods they know it they want to be paid.Pay up now and no harm is done.
The thing is, when its hypothetical most people take the moral high ground, but when it happens its sometimes a different story.
I'm not so sure. I told my insurers when the actual cost of new carpets was several hundred pounds less than the quote (fitters misinterpreted my drawings). They had already paid me based on the quote, fitters said they wouldn't say anything to insurers, but there wasn't any question about what was the right thing to do. They asked for a cheque for the difference, and got one.
Your moral compass is broken.
As a store manager for a relatively large retailer, i'd say thief is a little strong however you have been dishonest and should return the item.
The fact it's £600 worth is key as most retailers wont sit back and let you take it without a fight, especially as they'll have proof you haven't paid. I assume it was signed for when delivered?
If we wrongly delivered £600 worth of stock in a similar scenario, i'd be straight on your back to get the funds or the item back. Were it £30 i'd probably just suck it up. The fact you ordered it in the first place suggests you can afford it.
I think you know the right thing to do.
The fact you're making a concerted effort to now avoid paying for it makes you both a thief and devoid of morality. Shame on you and your wife frankly.
This has been my favourite one so far.
Im not so bothered about the morality behind it. I havent lost sleep over it as I dont believe its really that bad. I paid for an item which couldnt be delivered on time, it was refunded then mistakenly delivered. I didnt go out of my way to steal it, it just came into my possession. I haven't particularly gone out of my way to rectify the situation and really wanted to know the legalities behind it before I proceed. (to put it on ebay (im joking))
It sounds like someone has noticed that a refund has been made but an item has not reappeared in stock - I suppose you need to consider if that someone's arse is on the line for refunding you without confirming your item was on the truck or in the warehouse - and how you might feel if it was you in that person's situation. You haven't paid for the item, it's not yours. Noone's died or been physically injured so it's not exactly crime of the century - so I won't be using any exaggerated hyperbole, and the fact that it's all a bit faceless makes it easier for you I guess. But I reckon you know it's not yours. Looks like you'll have to give it back.
I think you know the right thing to do.
Cheers for the insider info Gav. I know the right thing to do, call and get it paid, which is what is going to be done tomorrow. However, i'd want to know what happens if this doesnt happen.
From talking with my sister who is in retail management she told me that previously she had mistakenly given a customer a PS3 with a mobile phone contract as it was part of a free gift deal. However it turns out the deal was supposed to be with a free PS3 motion controller, not PS3 console and had to chase up the customer to get it back. The customer basically said 'its your mistake, sorry' and it turns out that the my sisters company couldnt or wouldnt chase it any more (of which im not sure). Which made me think perhaps there is no legal grounding to getting the item back once it has been delivered.
Technically, I'd say its theft, but I wouldn't blame you for keeping it.
But I reckon they are going to chase you for it.
If they've a stock control / inventory system that lets this sort of thing happen then your probably not the first that's had a free lunch on them.
It's probably breach of contract - read your T&C's
Im not so bothered about the morality behind it. I havent lost sleep over it as I dont believe its really that bad
Ahhh yes, definitely a troll.
To 'borke' the law is surely ill-advised, in any context.
A building society accidentally gave me £1500 of shares when they demutualised (I was actually too young to be issued them according to the terms of the demutualisation).
Sold them and kept the money and never lost a wink of sleep over it.
Thief!
THIEF!!!!
*sharpens pitchfork*
'thief thief theif', 'devoid of morality', 'morally bankrupt', 'broken moral compass', a 'troll', parents morality and parenting being called out, a wife who's fidelity has been brought into question and being unable to spell in my thread title. This has been a tough Monday.
A building society accidentally gave me £1500 of shares when they demutualised (I was actually too young to be issued them according to the terms of the demutualisation).Sold them and kept the money and never lost a wink of sleep over it.
Would you be interested in a 2nd hand sofa?
This has been a tough Monday.
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Monday_(date) ]...to be expected? [/url]
Would you be interested in a 2nd hand sofa?
Haha, no way - that's shady.
Thief!
THIEF!!!!
*sharpens pitchfork*
Him or me? He's scum obvs. 🙂
This has been a tough Monday....to be expected?
spooky!
I "borked" the law and the law won 8)
Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busy
So they tried to arrange payment or return of the couch and were fobbed off with an excuse. Morals of the gutter. Pay up or give it back.
You're not a crook yet but if you lie to them you will be
You're not a crook yet but if you lie to them you will be
So if he never answers the phone, then he's good to go?
I assume it was signed for when delivered?
If you're dishonest, this is an important question.
If you're honest, pay up. The law is clear, its illegal.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_problems_with_delivery_e/consumer_unsolicited_goods_e/youve_received_goods_or_services_you_didnt_ask_for_distance_sales.htm
Look up the definitions of embezzlement/swindling.
Look up the definitions of embezzlement/swindling.
Unless the OP works for the furniture company in question, then it's not embezzlement.
Hmmm, must remember not to sell anything to Peter1979 via the classifieds...
Today my wife has a phone call from Furniture Item 1 store, nothing was discussed as my wife made an excuse that she was busySo they tried to arrange payment or return of the couch and were fobbed off with an excuse. Morals of the gutter. Pay up or give it back.
Technically they haven't tried to 'arrange' payment or return as my wife didnt get into any conversation as she said she was too busy to talk at that moment.
Morals of the gutter to add to the list. Thank you irc, you have passed the morality test and are allowed safe passage into heaven.
Check the price of the item in store and offer to pay up when it gets dramatically reduced.
Or
Send the company en email saying you have it by their error and can they come round to collect it please.
I bet they never show up
I wonder- the person who possibly made the mistake. Is he/she in shit because of this mistake?
It has been reduced by 80 quid! The thieving.....
Hang on, maybe thats why they were phoning, to offer an £80 refund.
From the link above, if you write this letter giving them 14 days to collect it, and they don't, you can keep it... (with morals intact)
Then you could buy it again. You've got nothing to lose!
Hang on, maybe thats why they were phoning, to offer an £80 refund.
Easy tiger. You're being a bit too on the nose, now.
The thing is it says 'unsolicited' and this wasnt unsolicited, as I ordered it. Cant get the link to work.
Try this www.advice.org.uk/gotsomekitthatwasnttakeninaburgularythistime//
Why not pop in to the police station and ask them for advice? 😉
You are an immoral dishonest thief .I was dragged up proper by my folks and even tell till girls if they give to much change .I sleep well at night ,you may not !
Tbh if its wrapped/not used answer the phone and ask them to collect. If youve unwrapped and using it. Pay for it.
Seems fair?
Technically if you genuinely had to ask you were not a thief but given you now know the standards of ordinary decent people if you keep it or part with it without paying you are on dodgy ground. You could be prosecuted for the crime and in any event you could be sued for the full value plus costs and interest.
Really really surprised you had to ask and shocked at your assumption that people on here would go bent for 600 quid.
*s****s*
To me it doesn't really sound that bad if I'm honest but if you are evading their phone calls and such-like than I'd say it's surely more hassle than it's worth and you should just phone them to sort it.
I'm going to be honest and say that if it was me, and the furniture was from some massive department store I don't think I'd lose any sleep over it.
Though for £600 you'd have to expect them to chase it up sooner or later.
Edit to say that I think suggesting the OP has 'gone bent' for £600 (lolz) is a bit much. It's not like he's ditched his job to organise a people trafficking ring or something.
Crankboy - thats an interesting take that "if you genuinely had to ask its not theft". I see where you are coming from, but I'd turn that on its head: if you bothered to ask on an internet forum if its theft then you knew it wasn't right. If you were genuinely naive to the offence you would either not post at all or post a "look how I lucked out" post...
I'm going to be honest and say that if it was me, and the furniture was from some massive department store I don't think I'd lose any sleep over it.
It's always great to believe in the victimless crime, but the trouble is, massive department stores are made up of lots of individual who have their own jobs and responsibilities. This is going to be a mistake made by one of those individuals and they're the one who's going to get it the neck, maybe loose out on a bonus or earnings. It certainly won't look good for them or something they'll just be able to hide.
The high horsemen of the apocalypse have arrived in number on this thread. Try looking at this from another angle.
The company have to refund the OP because they are unable to fulfil the order in a timely manner, at this point both parties have agreed the order is cancelled so no contract exists between the two. In an attempt to regain the business they deliver anyway when it comes into stock with the expectation that they will receive payment. This is a criminal offence under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 so the OP would be within his rights to keep the item. Not saying it's right but the law's the law innit.
The Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 makes it an offence for a company to send you goods you have not ordered. The legislation is intended to discourage companies from sending customers unordered goods in the hope that they will be induced by lethargy or ignorance to pay for them. Companies who send out unordered goods in this way do so at great risk since once you receive the goods you do not have to pay for them and they are yours to keep. [url= http://www.theguardian.com/money/2005/sep/29/yourrights.legal3 ]linky[/url]
It's always great to believe in the victimless crime, but the trouble is, massive department stores are made up of lots of individual who have their own jobs and responsibilities. This is going to be a mistake made by one of those individuals and they're the one who's going to get it the neck, maybe loose out on a bonus or earnings. It certainly won't look good for them or something they'll just be able to hide.
Yeah I do take this point and it's a fair one. Though realistically I wouldn't expect someone to be fired on the spot for something like this and it must happen on fairly regular basis in larger firms.
Notwithstanding, the mistake has already been made regardless of whether the OP returns the goods or not, so somebody (if it indeed is an individual responsible) has probably been bollocked regardless.
I don't think there can be any argument that returning the goods would be the right thing to do though. Just depends on how much you care I suppose.
Email them, I have had companies reply 'thanks for letting us know, just keep it though'. Keep email plus be not a thief.
I once ordered two sofas from Argos (don't judge me!) - when they were delivered, they'd accidentally loaded a third one. I told the delivery guy that I'd only ordered and paid for two, and he asked me if I wanted the third one anyway! Apparently mis delivered stuff can't be returned to their warehouses, instead it goes to another warehouse where all the mis delivered and returned stuff gets auctioned. :/
Didn't take him up on the offer though, living room was too small for three!
Makes note to self
Never ever deal with pete1979 the guy is complete nobber..
You can add that to the list if you like.
I don't understand how you can be experiencing any moral ambiguity about this at all.
Yes, you are a thief, as is your wife and compounded by the fact that you both instinctively know it's wrong as you've been avoiding their phone calls.