[Closed] Have Arnold Clark killed my car?

For half a mile with oil pouring out I reckon I’d just be pissed off (but obviously not surprised, as you say, Arnold Clark innit) but not concerned. The car likely has an oil level sensor, if that warning hasn’t triggered then I really wouldn’t be concerned

Yeah, no dash lights and still pouring out once I'd come to rest so I'm hopeful no long term damage...but still, it's a pisser!

That. But make them pay for someone to check the engine anyway.

Somebody's getting a roasting for sure!

My mechanic fried reiterates at every opportunity his appentiship mantra that was drilled into him: never EVER go under the car to fit the sump plug unless you have the correct wrench to tighten it - and dont come back from under til that task is complete and you've checked.

He employs lots of guys now: give's them this message. But he still gets to collect cars from the roadside with no sump plug!

I suspect your's is fine given you've spotted it.

But then it's Arnold Clark - I'd be worried about what else they've missed.

If only there was some way of changing the oil without removing the sump plug?

At least I am in no doubt that the engine will definitely have had an oil change!😁

Refund and top the oil back up for free.

Quite how they managed to screw the plug back in, but only just enough for it to drop out again is odd, they must have just turned it by barely a thread?? That's pretty special lol

At least they didnt do what they did to mates car - 9ltrs of oil instead of 4.5Ltr
Self ignited as it was a deisel and the crank slap created enough fog to run without adding fuel Then it sat the redline while evryone bailed then something major internal failed and it stopped
Think both the mechanic and the apprentice added oil independantly of each other

I'm not sure how much detail I can give as going through legal procedings at the moment, so I won't give any details the can identify anyone, but AC managed to mess up a job in a way that the throttle stuck on (at 100%) and the front brakes were loose to the point where full braking trying to slow the car caused them to fail. Would have been a truly horrible accident as 140mph was achieved before the driver realised to knock out of gear/dip clutch.

Less than 5 year old car was still a write off and they're insisting the service 15 miles earlier had no effect

And that's why I do all my own work on my car. I don't trust anyone in a garage! Likewise a bike shop.

Perchy to the forum, he's a proper fan of Arnold.

It's like halfords.

But with higher staff turnover and worse morals

I too succumbed to the allure of the cheapest prices around when we bought the Volvo.
It had the slightest radiator leak from a dent in the bottom. Arnold Shark agreed to replace the radiator as part of the purchase, and so a week after I bought it, dropped it off with them in Stirling.

When I collected it the low coolant light was on. I asked them to check and top up.
One cup of coffee later I was given the keys again.
As I pulled out the coolant light came on.
Back in for another brew and wait, the mechanics were now going home...
Service manager was nowhere to be seen, and so I and one of the sales chaps had to explain the the apprentice mechanic that air was in the system - and a good squishy squish of pipes while running would purge the air and allow more coolant could be added.

Utter tools.

I said 20 years ago when I bought a Peugeot from them 'never again'.
I'm back at 'never again'.

You won't have an oil level light but will have an oil pressure light. If it didn't go off while you were driving then the chances are the leak rate of oil was not high enough to drain the oil before you completed your journey.

Not necessarily Arnold clark. Exactly the same thing happened to a mate of mine with his shiny new Audi TT after a service. Got it home and parked up on his newly laid block paved drive. Woke up in the morning to a big oil slick running all the way down his drive. Sump plug not tightened up properly. Audi took the car away to sort it out and paid for a professional clean of his drive.

Evans Halshaw are just as bad.

I wouldn't trust them to service a skateboard.

Probably. Absolute shower of excrement.

Funnily enough, my previous, and probably ill advised AC purchase was a Peugeot 508 with another 4 year service plan. Absolutely no problems what so ever with that. Go figure!

Anyway, will be asking for an independent report at their expense, refund on the cost of service, real risk of contamination of brake pads so I will have them replaced too thanks very much! And...an air freshener so I can negotiate down if necessary!😁 wish me luck!!

and some admission of liability from AC

I mean this genuinely, but good luck with that. When I got done over by them, they did everything they could to shift the blame onto me, they even went as far as calling me a liar.
I think my favourite part of the debacle was when I realised it was a culture thing, the parts manager came onto the showroom floor F’ing and jeffing because that dickhead customer was on the phone again and he was coming in to see them with yet another problem. I realised they treat everyone like shit, not just me.

What is being done about the oil all over the road? Sounds like sufficient to cause a cyclist or motorbike to crash and a risk of an environmental hazard by getting into surface drains or water courses.

I won’t give any details the can identify anyone, but AC

What?

140mph was achieved before the driver realised to knock out of gear/dip clutch.

What?

For balance, I've bought my last five cars fRom AC motorstore and all been perfect. Not done servicing there due to distance from home but the cars have been faultless.

140mph was achieved before the driver realised to knock out of gear/dip clutch.

What?

I'd imagine blind panic was the major contributor.

I’d imagine blind panic was the major contributor.

Seems a bit at odds with the username though.

real risk of contamination of brake pads

How ?

If your trying for brake pads - you best try for exhaust rubbers and wishbone mounts and all the other rubber under the car that *could* be contaminated with oil.

at best you'll get a steam clean of the underside of your car

AC set the tone with me when they recommended an aircon gas change as it "would have got bacteria in it"

The service manage actually looked offended when I laughed at him.

@thew... I contacted the roads authority myself and a treatment truck did attend.
@trail rat.. really? You dont think that risk exists, oil being pumped from a pressurised system onto wet roads at speeds up to 40mph? Also, brake pads, as you may be aware, are an essential element for reducing your vehicles speed, especially if you were going fast, like 140mph fast😉, so that's the reason I will argue for that. As for the rubbers and bushings, thanks for the advice, I will go for that too!🤣

your sump is not pressurised.

If it is - we might have a reason for your sump plug going MIA.

unless you were pulling some sick G its not getting to your brake pads

by all means try it. I'm pretty sure it will be laughed out the building.

exupmonkey

Member

Funnily enough, my previous, and probably ill advised AC purchase was a Peugeot 508 with another 4 year service plan. Absolutely no problems what so ever with that. Go figure!

I've also caught Arnold Clark not doing the service work they said they did.....

@trailrat...I will bow to your clearly superior knowledge on the subject. So what remedy would you be happy with if you were in my position then, top up with oil and a handshake or would you demand some other, less laugh inducing remedy?

@thew… I contacted the roads authority myself and a treatment truck did attend.

Nice one, wouldn't have occurred to most people I reckon. Suppose your username should have given me a clue it's a problem you may have encountered personally... 👍

top up with oil and a handshake or would you demand some other, less laugh inducing remedy

tbh I think I'd just go for that, it's all you're realistically likely to get anyway. If the brake pads are contaminated by oil, you'd know it already

as i said - a steam clean of the underside of the car.

fresh oil

Some kind of goodwill gesture for their **** up/your inconvenience.

But chasing for new brake pads etc benefits no one.

@thhew...haha, the Exup, been a few years since I wrestled with that beast! Its ZZR1400monkey now, a far more civilised machine. Well, maybe I am harbouring unrealistic expectations then, but I shall be asking the questions anyeay and see what happens. Thanks all for your input, its always good to get a wider perspective. 😊

I don't think this sort of thing is just AC, it's more a main dealer thing. I got my last van from a local independent dealer, one of the few left as AC have taken almost everything around here.
They're shite, I can't really se AC being much different.

I'd think the brakes have every chance of getting contaminated. The turbulence on the underside of a vehicle at speed means the oil doesn't flow out in a nice predictable way like it does in a garage.
I'm just thinking back to some of the shitty leaky vehicles I've had in the past. They leak oil onto the drive at rest, but the underside of the car will likely be well covered in an oily mess. It blows around.

Oliverracings post brings back memories of doing the same thing as a spotty yoof. Albeit driving a dumper 🙂 Blind panic was indeed involved...

As it stands, I will be asking for a full, independent report as to the state of the engine

Given that the purpose of the oil is, basically, to lubricate the bearings are you expecting them to completely tear your engine down to check them for damage?

You say you did a short trip home after the service, but you also say that the cars done 17 miles since the service.... Is this the short trip?

Get them to see why the sump plug came out (they may have tried to fit one from another car or the sump threads may be damaged), fill up with oil and learn from your mistake of going to AC in the first place!

I can remember being stunned when a friend told me his car didn't have a drain plug. But I can see now that there are benefits.

Fifth Gear did a thing where they drive a car with no oil...

Arnold Clark managed to do similar to my car but at the other side of the engine. They left the filler cap undone. The car developed a weird uneven idle, when I lifted the bonnet to have a look I spotted it straight away.

It's the second time they made an arse of a simple service job. I've not been near them since.

Surely you will be able to see if the brakes are contaminated?

Personally I would be happy with a oil top up with good oil ( I would want to see the empty can) a good clean of the underside of the car, a refund of the cost and an apology

You say you did a short trip home after the service, but you also say that the cars done 17 miles since the service…. Is this the short trip?

He said he found the end of the oil slick and the sump plug half a mile back. The 17 miles would be with it finger tight. Half a mile and maybe 1 minute of town driving while it was draining shouldn't have done much, if any, damage.

I wouldn't be too worried about the brakes. Find an empty bit of road an do few hard stops and see how it feels.

@sharkbait..re read my post please, yesterday I drove the car a short distance, probably 2 or 3 miles. 17 miles is the mileage the vehicle has accumulated since the service last friday, is that clear enough now? As for an engine assessment, I'm thinking about the long term here as I intend to have it for the full term of the warranty I.e. 7 years so I really would like an assurance as to the health of the engine, and clearly I'm not just going to take ACs word for it. it's up to them how they go about that. As for making a mistake using AC, yes your quite right, but have you tried buying a new car recently, it's very difficult to do without crossing an AC threshold, especially up here in Scotland!

tbh i dont think youll get anywhere.

get it fixed (stripped plug?) and forget about it

e read my post please

Have done now.....Gotcha. Just to play devils advocate, AC 'may' say that it left them with everything done up properly and 'something' has happened in the intervening time.

A stripped thread would very def point at them though.

clearly I’m not just going to take ACs word for it.

Fair enough.... but how do you expect the inspection to take place? The only parts that will show damage are the bearings and you don't get to see them without a very major engine strip.
As already said.... if there was no oil pressure light/message/warning then it really should be fine.

edit: Is it a diesel? I see some of them have an oil level light as well as oil pressure - but no automatic limp mode/shut down.

If the remains of the oil hasn't been changed yet send a sample off to be analysed.

Boss had a similar issue but with a main dealer. He says he saw no dash lights driving home but when he went back out to his car there was oil everywhere. Garage sent AA to look the next morning, they found the sump plug on the undertray. Ended up with a brand new engine and his block stone driveway being replaced....took a few months though as they refused most of it to start with, solicitors involved.

You could contact Kia directly and ask if driving for 1/2 a mile with no sump plug and possible oil starvation will affect a future engine warranty claim.

I'd imagine the reply would be 'I'm sorry sir our warranty doesn't cover user error'.
Use that as ammunition.

oldnick

Member
If the remains of the oil hasn’t been changed yet send a sample off to be analysed

Why bother? The oil used isn’t in question

oil analysis will show up wear particles which estimates how much wear has been done. This is a good idea IME

Ie if the oil is full of bottom end bearings wear particles they owe you a new engine, if its not the engine is fine

I think you should just ask for a new car. It's about as likely to happen as any of the other suggestions on here

oil analysis will show up wear particles which estimates how much wear has been done

there's no oil left to analyse, remember? it's all over the brake discs 🙂

Seems a bit at odds with the username though.

As I said, wasn't me but someone I know who thinks of cars in the same category as fridges/washing machines.

I personally would NEVER let my car get near them (not that they'd touch it as it's a kit car) as have heard loads of bad stories through colleagues. I won't even get onto the stuff I've heard about Halfords autocenters or whatever they're called! (although they have been know to MOT fail a car already fitted with brand new discs and pads that are ~3 miles old, charge to "fit new ones" and then pass it all in the space on a hour...)

tjagain

Member
oil analysis will show up wear particles which estimates how much wear has been done. This is a good idea IME

Ie if the oil is full of bottom end bearings wear particles they owe you a new engine, if its not the engine is fine

The car wasn’t run without oil. Nothing indicated pressure, temp or level issues. Still struggling to see the point. If all 17miles were dry then yes, otherwise not so much

Put the request for new oil and sump plug, new pads (and bushes if you want) in an email stating why you think they should be replaced and ask them to confirm in writing why they disagree if they do. Get the oil analysed and tell them in the email if it shows abnormal wear has occurred you will be expecting a replacement new engine. Give them 2 weeks to reply, then Post a letter stating the same. Give 2 weeks after that and pay a solicitor to write a letter.

If in future there is an issue with engine failure and/or contaminated brakes you may have some recourse. Don’t waste any more time after that.

A neighbour bought a car from one of the large dealer chains and the same thing happens on the M42 destroying the engine. Dealer could not give a monkeys and refused to accept blame. Just handed them their money back. The neighbour was actually more concerned that his family and others could have been killed if an accident had resulted.

oil analysis will show up wear particles which estimates how much wear has been done. This is a good idea IME
Ie if the oil is full of bottom end bearings wear particles they owe you a new engine, if its not the engine is fine

Not that simple. Even if you found debris how would you prove the state of the engine before the oil loss incident. They're not going to give you a new engine without the proof the oil loss has caused the damage. They're not going to take your word for it: 'honest guv, the engine was fine before'. They'll tell you in no so polite terms to stick it. They wont deal on the basis of assumptions or giving you the benefit of the doubt. The burden would be on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the damage was caused by the oil loss. You simply couldn't do that. Not without a data point before the service confirming the condition of the engine and a data point after the service.

Ok, update for those that are interested. I've negotiated a full refund for the service costs and a written note of liability for having caused the issue in the first place which should hold me in good stead in the unlikely event that the engine has suffered as a result. I've been over to the dealer and road tested the brakes etc and all is good in that regard so I have accepted the car back. I've also told them that I will be informing the roads dept re recouping cleaning costs. Case closed....for me but alas the numpty that was supposed to have serviced the car may not be so lucky, I've been told that the matter has already been referred up to HR and 'it doesn't look good'! I would hate this event to result in a young lad/lass losing their job and would much prefer that it be used by them as a learning outcome with retraining etc thrown in. My fingers are crossed. All that being said, they might have washed the bloody thing! Cheers all.

I wouldn't worry, if AC fired every incompetent staff member they would have nobody left.

🤣

I would hate this event to result in a young lad/lass losing their job

You’re assuming it’s someone young and also assuming this is their first **** up

. Nothing indicated pressure, temp or level issues. Still struggling to see the point

If you are relying on your oil warning light to save you, you are probably in trouble. Having had a car that ate the sensor on a regular basis, I looking into changing it to an actual gauge. Where the sensor was and the threshold for triggering the light was so low, it should have been called the 'catastrophic engine damage has just occurred, just FYI' light.
Anyone who had a 90s VW petrol engine with the 'you just came off the motorway oil light/buzzer' will understand why they set the threshold low.

Really mashr! Do I at least get a gold star for not assuming it was a male mechanic! And as for previous performance then yes, if he/she/gender neutral/any other form of humanity or in fact it has a record of poor performance then yes, by all means get rid. My statement was suggesting, or so I thought, that I would hate for this incident in its isolation to result in....blah blah blah! Also,I appogise for assuming that the star may be gold, I am aware that other colours of stars are available! FFS!

I’ve been told that the matter has already been referred up to HR and ‘it doesn’t look good’!

I think they said that to you because that's what they think you want to hear.

Possibly, although by the time I was told that I had already made my thoughts known on that. Anyway, what will be will be.

I’ve been told that the matter has already been referred up to HR and ‘it doesn’t look good’! I would hate this event to result in a young lad/lass losing their job and would much prefer that it be used by them as a learning outcome with retraining etc thrown in.

Presumably such a mistake would qualify for a warning at most. Whether the employee has previous possibly reflects on him or her.

However, in IT where simple mistakes can be business critical, it's imperative that good procedures and safety nets are put in place to prevent them. And when an employee makes a mistake which results in any damage, the employee isn't disciplined. Instead you investigate and correct company procedures that allowed it to happen. Which is why that's a poor response from AC, and possibly why they're so s**t.

Cromolyolly. I agree about the light but some cars don’t have a temp gauge to give you a clue. 106 and Yaris are 2 we have owned.

Its certainly not just AC but pretty endemic amongst main dealers.

Took my Leaf for its first service at the Nissan dealer where I bought it, supposedly EV specialists.....nice young lady phoned me up and said the mechanic had carried out the service and suggested it might benefit from an engine flush.

Sounds like a reasonable result OP.

I've had 2 cars from AC and not had an issue with either, that includes a few services and repairs that were carried out by their workshop. I guess I depends on the branch and who you get.

The worst service I have ever had has been from a main dealer but that's a whole other thread and I had to pay nearly a grand for the pleasure of their mistakes.

Indeed, a reasonable result as far as I'm concerned😊

oil analysis will show up wear particles which estimates how much wear has been done. This is a good idea IME

Ie if the oil is full of bottom end bearings wear particles they owe you a new engine, if its not the engine is fine

I use an lab at work to analyse oil samples from large gearboxes, a decision will never be based on one poor sample, gearbox would be purged and then filled, run for a period and resampled.

You wouldn't believe the debris that can come in a brand new gearbox, we're talking £70k worth of box, not some cheap, mass manufactured car engine.

Personally I would be happy with a oil top up with good oil ( I would want to see the empty can)

I’m sure they can find an empty can. How about a picture of the mechanic pouring the oil on holding a copy of today’s paper.

and also assuming this is their first **** up

we drove an AC van from glasgow to York before it became apparent they’ed forgotten to put the oil cap on

`Dad got a Vectra Sri company car brand new off a transporter back in the mid 2000s

He drove it for a week before it became apparent that what ever oil was in there didn't even reach the dipstick.

Fleet were called and they took it away. Added oil gave it a check over and he got it back

That car did over 100k up and down to Edinburgh happy and carefree

.

Our local AC took 2weeks to do a belt change on our Hyundai. They ended up having to get another mechanic from a nearby Hyundai AC to come direct them.

They then failed to realise that in fitting the new belt, the Aircon pump bearings were more stressed and were making a horrid noise. I got it home, turned around and took it back, but there was no concept of any responsibility to check things that ran off the belt.
They quoted me pretty much the same as the belt change, plus a good whack for a new Aircon pump.
After a fair bit of arguing I found a local workshop via clickmechanic who sourced a recon air con and did it for a fraction of the cost.

Swore never to go anywhere near AC again.

I bought my last car from Arnold, so I have no issues buying from them but there is no way I would let them touch it afterwards. Go to a trusted independent for all my car work

Agree with the above, shame finding a trusted independent isn’t always the easiest either. Last time I tried a new place I ended up having an interesting chat with trading standards

Ok, in the interest of fairness, here is the final result- my Arnold Clark branch contacted me the following day at midday, during which the service manager offered a somewhat insincere apology and told me the car was ready. When I pressed him to expand on what had been done he provided the sort of responses that led me to believe that all that had been done was to top up the oil. I told him I wasn't happy, and that I demanded to be reimbursed to which he promised he would call me back the next day as he had to consult with head office. 10 days later I was still waiting so I submitted an online complaint form. This is when things started moving in my direction. A manager from another branch called me, we agreed a solution, the car was returned to them the next day and a video health check carried out. I also recieved £150 in lieu of the service costs, a letter admitting liability and a full tank of fuel. So, although it took a while to get there, all in all Arnold Clark have responded well and I'm happy wih the outcome.