[Closed] Has anyone gone "plant-based"?

Although I do seem to be getting more mouth ulcers which could indicate a deficiency of B12.

The book has some nuanced and well researched content, but presumably for marketing reasons has gone for a sort of "click bait" title to get traction and clearly it is meant to be picked up as a cure all. It's worked - we're all talking about it.

If the title was "Evidence Based Approach to Diet and Lifestyle" would we be talking about it?

but presumably for marketing reasons has gone for a sort of “click bait” title to get traction and clearly it is meant to be picked up as a cure all.

I bet you have just described a LOT of people in the UK and a huge number (the majority?) in the US.

That's probably true, to be fair.

I once went Down South for a team meeting followed by going for a curry. Halfway through my boss suddenly exclaimed, "where's your meat?!" He couldn't comprehend how I could order a meal without it. (There then followed a half-hour tedious cross-examination, but that's another story.)

With my job I have listened to lots of Drs and nutritionists talking about the power of plants and I 100% believe it.

Do you actually mean "nutritionist" or was that a typo? Nutritionist isn't a protected term, Gillian McKeith is a nutritionist. Binners could call himself a nutritionist and I expect his books would be wildly popular. Dietician is the protected profession, I'd be listening to what they say over any nutritionists.

And what are these doctors doctors in? I wouldn't be taking dietary advice from a pediatrician either.

Binners could call himself a nutritionist and I expect his books would be wildly popular.

Pictures, Pastry, Pints and Politics : A life well lived

This has got me thinking, I should write a book called "taste-based" where I extoll the benefits of eating stuff you like the taste of, on the basis its makes you happy and happy people tend to be fit healthy people.

Or alternatively a people-based book where you go full cannible and eat other people, since we are the ones messing up the planet, not the plants, animals and imigrants.

@Jon Taylor - that recipe book - the green roasting tin, Does it include gluten in every recipe?

This has got me thinking, I should write a book called “taste-based” where I extoll the benefits of eating stuff you like the taste of, on the basis its makes you happy and happy people tend to be fit healthy people.

What are you like when you're not ‘thinking’? 😜

cannible

Can nibble?

You would have to be an idiot to take the title literally, as it would seem to claim to make you immortal.

Or perhaps someone who doesn't like people cynically exploiting people's biases to sell books. Like I said before, a science based book that says "scientifically proven" on the front cover is clearly pandering to idiots for commercial gain.

you called the author “a quack” on the basis of something that, as far as I can see, he’s never said. Without being too confrontational, is that not a bit stupid?

Nope, not stupid, he's a quack and his team of "researchers" don't actually do any research.

It’s worked – we’re talking about it. each other’s opinions of it, especially those of us who haven’t read it

FTFY

Couldn’t find any evidence that he’s made this claim. Where have you seen him say it?

geomickb
Member

He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based.

This is an unintentionally brilliant example of how social-media/click-bait and keyboard-warring work together to create new myths from something that someone said about someone saying something about something.

Binners could call himself a nutritionist and I expect his books would be wildly popular.

Pictures, Pastry, Pints and Politics : A life well lived

I'm picturing BBC2, 10pm on a Tuesday night with Alan Bennet sat in a big armchair, by an open fire, can of Stella in hand, extolling the virtues of cheese and onion pasties.

I need to get writing, don't I?

"It’s not necessary to buy the book to know that anyone promising a simple remedy for all health issues is a quack."

I'm not so sure about this. I think that most heath issues can be prevented with a "good diet".
Some of the big ones are heart disease and diabetes. A "good diet" can also reduce chances of certain cancers.

The question is, what is a "good diet".

That may the title for my book (I will be keeping all the profits and spending them on bikes)!

Mick

I need to get writing, don’t I?

I'd buy it but it'd need to be the special collectors edition with the pastry front cover.

I do wonder whether books such as the one being discussed fall into one of two categories:

1) Stuff that's already common knowledge, just presented in new pants.

2) Outright quackery, cynically designed to sell books.

We're at a point now where really we have a pretty good handle on what constitutes a good diet vs a poor one, and both plant-based and carnivorous diets can easily fall into either of those buckets. Actual revolutionary new discoveries are likely to be thin on the ground I'd have thought.

Eg, my better half is on Slimming World at the moment. Their entire approach appears to be: eat as much as you want; stop eating lard; stop eating sugar; avoid flour; and knock the six pints of Foster's of a night out on the head. Which seems to me just to be fairly sensible advice, wrapped up in a programme where you give them a fiver every week and they give you a recipe book and gold stars for good behaviour. She's lost a stone so far (and was tiny to start with despite her protestations to the contrary) so it seems to be working...

I didn't intend this thread to focus so much on this one book. There are currently a lot of plant-based books, podcasts etc.

Eg Rich Roll and Bosh

I'm not plant-based but I do enjoy visiting the local vegan cafe. I really like eating out and feeling healthy after, not the usual British cafe dining experience. I also bought one of the Bosh books and have been enjoying a few of their meals.

I do like eating more veg and believe that it is healthier but I can't imagine doing it full time. I would never know what to do for brekko or lunch every day.

Mick

I’d buy it but it’d need to be the special collectors edition with the pastry front cover

I'm not sure binners would be entirely comfortable publishing a book with a single pastry lid though.

would never know what to do for brekko or lunch every day.

Two out of your three meals a day are animal-based? Ironically I find that breakfast (porridge or rye/sourdough toast and peanut butter, some fruit) are the easiest meals to imagine and prepare.

As a former baconite then this stuff (see thread) has made Sat/Sun breakfasts fun as well, especially combined with an egg and/or some colcannon hash 🤤

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/this-isnt-bacon/

Not plant based, but have been borderline vegetarian (not vegan) for most of the year for fad diet reasons.

I seems to sleep a lot better, energy levels stabilized a bit once I got used to having to eat quite a lot more (there's obviously less fat in plants, and don't need so much fat to cook, and I'd been limiting carbs anyway).

would never know what to do for brekko or lunch every day.

Breakfast is easy, basically anything that isn't a bacon sandwich would work. Anything from whey protein meal replacement shakes to porridge depending on my plans for the day.

Lunch, soup. Either home made or available in a bazillion flavors fro the supermarket. Add a sandwich for carbs if I'm doing any riding or swap for leftovers.

Dinner, currently stuck in a cycle of stir fry, veg curry, bean chilli and lentil ragu / arrabiata. Pretty uninspiring, but TBH that's an average meat eating week just missing the steak and chips days.

My only issue is getting enough protein. To get anywhere near the 1g/kg mark without supplements would mean eating nothing but beans and pulses for every meal. As a result my arms and legs have gotten noticeably skinnier!

To get anywhere near the 1g/kg mark without supplements would mean eating nothing but beans and pulses for every meal.

is that true?

As a veggie you also have options of protein-rich foods such as nuts, whey protein, eggs, cottage cheese, milk, soy*, etc etc

*Yes soy is a bean but you can eat tofu, TVP, soy-protein products etc for variety.

As for legumes ;for example) I eat lots of red lentil soups, curries and stews and just like chicken soup I always look fwd to it and usually pig-out.

look at combining legumes and carbs like rice for ‘complete proteins’

Here’s some info https://vegfaqs.com/lentils-vs-meat/

Been vegan for 15 months, veggie before that for a year. I love it. I would say it’s pretty easy if you are into cooking. I tended to try and cook new meals a few times a week when I ate meat as I got bored of food easily. I find vegan food less boring but still have to mix it up to keep it interesting

To be honest I wouldn’t recommend it. Everyone around you all of a sudden seems to think they can question the nutritional value of everything you are eating while they eat McDonald’s. How do you get your protein/calcium/vitamin etc etc
No one ever talked to me about nutrition and being healthy when I ate meat. The second I actually put some effort into eating right everyone is an expert!
Then you got the vegans, so many knob head vegans, you shouldn’t use this or that, x company isn’t vegan, im more vegan than you etc.
Minefield innit!
Well that all sounded a little bi polar!

I eat a *mostly* plant-based diet for environmental reasons and ethical - and never felt better/fitter. Ditching dairy was a game-changer. People seem to have developed a weird fetish for meat however, so I can't see too many changing. It's like it becomes part of their identity and being challenged on it makes them feel like their sense of self - or maybe their masculinity - is under threat. You can generally tell people to smoke/drink less and they'll reluctantly agree, but try telling them about meat and they seem to have an existential crisis - as evidenced by the many 'meat eaters' who flock to these threads to declare We Eat Meat and We're Not Gonna Change.

Although, that said, recent events are really encouraging - I think given the recent outbreak (where strangely, virtually no discussion of the meat industry, which is responsible for this current crisis, has taken place!), plus the fact the planet is in the midst of a worsening mass extinction largely due to agriculture, plus the endless chronic illnesses inflicted on health services due to over-consumption of meat, and the fact that, basically, cheap abundant bacon/pork/etc. is basically going to see our children going back to having legs/arms amputated because of antibiotic resistance, is finally starting to hit home with people.

@thisisnotaspoon

Meant to post you this link it should be helpful, ie a good rule of thumb = protein to make up 15% of your daily calorific intake. Also discusses and links good sources of plant-based protein 👍🏼

https://www.nomeatathlete.com/where-vegetarians-get-protein/

To get anywhere near the 1g/kg mark without supplements would mean eating nothing but beans and pulses for every meal.

is that true?

If you're worried about protein & don't mind processed stuff, Quorn & the like (stuff made from soy or pea protein for example) are packed with it. Obviously snacking on nuts or stuff like peanut butter is going to help a lot too.

Never sat down to work it down but I'm sure most people will be fine. Not worried at all personally as I eat fish a few times a week & the odd Huel shake too lol.

As a result my arms and legs have gotten noticeably skinnier!

Just some observations.

I have reduced my meat intake over the past few years. Eat more fish, veg, salad these days. Creating veg only meals is not difficult but I have no intention of giving up meat completely.

If for some reason I did decide to go veggie or vegan, I don't think it's mea I would miss most. I couldn't imagine life without dairy products - but then I can eat cream off a spoon and butter off the knife. Yum.

The current common argument against meat seems to be production of greenhouse gases. However there is a counter argument that mixed agriculture is required to keep soil in good condition.

Oh and the elephant in the room. The only reason meat eating or greenhouse gases or global warming is even an issue is population levels.

If for some reason I did decide to go veggie or vegan, I don’t think it’s mea[t] I would miss most. I couldn’t imagine life without dairy products

Being vegetarian doesn't preclude that.

Y'know, if you give a toss about labels. Eat what you want. Don't eat what you don't. Easy, really.

No but a lot of veggie types don't eat dairy. Just saying, IF I decided to drop something in my diet, meat (much as I love it) would probably be an easier thing to stop than dairy. It's merely an observation as it isn't going to happen.

are you sure they weren’t just fat? 😃 An easy way to tell is: are you lifting less in the gym? Or the same (or more!)?

Slower on the flats, quicker uphill, so ive certainly lost more weight than power so its not all bad.

My arms have definitely lost muscle though, and i think my legs have too. Ive not lifted any weights for years but always had a big build, how much of that is a predisposition and how much was down to eating and exercising in (generally) equal measure.

Basicly I'm thinner, but I dont think I look healthier. Not writing it off yet, some of that will be down to losing weight overall.

Meant to post you this link it should be helpful, ie a good rule of thumb = protein to make up 15% of your daily calorific intake. Also discusses and links good sources of plant-based protein 👍🏼

Cheers will have a look.

15% / 100g / 400 calories.

Sonething like chickpea curry has only 11g of protein in a 500cal portion. Whereas the same curry with a chicken breast has 40g.

Im sure there's better options than chickpeas, but thats the ones that generally get suggested as veg based protein.

I didn’t intend this thread to focus so much on this one book.

Which explains posting a picture of the book cover plus a gushing endorsement of it, along with bugger-all else.

And then later:

buy the book and find out the facts for yourself

No, of course you didn't intend to focus on this one book.

@hols2 you seem to be confused, did you read my original post?

Where is the gushing endorsement?

Here are my original questions again:

"Has anyone made the switch?
Is this just another extreme diet trend?"

Why has this made you so angry?

Please go and troll somewhere else.

Why has this made you so angry?

Please go and troll somewhere else.

I'm not angry and I'm not trolling. But, when someone says, "He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based," the bullshit meter comes out. If people do have serious health problems, they need to get professional advice, not read some populist miracle cure book.

I don’t see how the subject of just eating plants gets so many people irate! How can people get so wound up over something that literally doesn’t affect them?

and I’m not trolling.

I dunno, you're not contributing anything useful and keep coming back to stir an argument.

“He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based,” the bullshit meter comes out

Or learn not to take everything literally, you could quite easily also read that as being on a statistical basis. Eating less bacon won't help you survive a car accident, but might lower rates of cancer, dementia bacon memes on facebook.

So yes, if you have a car accident, or already have a medical problem, it's probably best to call 999 or your GP before reaching for the crudites and hummus. If you're otherwise healthy, maybe lay off the things that raise pressure, like meat and engaging in pointless nit-picking arguments on the internet.

Sonething like chickpea curry has only 11g of protein in a 500cal portion. Whereas the same curry with a chicken breast has 40g.

I love a chickpea curry, but are there not some differences in the "quality" of protein from different sources in terms of how the body processes them? Like 10g of protein from say lentils is not exactly equivalent to 10g from say an egg or bit of fish.

I really, really like lentils, chickpeas etc. I do find I need to watch how often and how much I eat them as I don't feel particularly good if I eat a lot of them, particularly as an evening meal. I would end up in quite a bad way if I ate legumes for dinner for a week.

you’re not contributing anything useful

I am. I'm pointing out bullshit, which is very useful.

Or learn not to take everything literally, you could quite easily also read that as being on a statistical basis.

Statistically, "all" means 100%. "Don't take everything literally" is classic troll talk. If I can't take your words literally, I have no way of knowing what you are trying to say. Why should I take anything you say seriously?

He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based

the author has NEVER claimed that.

The OP claims to have read the book and said, "He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based." If the book doesn't say that, either the OP didn't actually read it, or is just making shit up. Now we have, "Don't take things literally." Classic troll behaviour.

Like 10g of protein from say lentils is not exactly equivalent to 10g from say an egg or bit of fish.

There are a lot of proteins (BCAA's) you (apparently, I'm quoting received wisdom here) can't get from veg in sufficient quantities yes.

@Jon-Taylor help me understand how you know if these:

The sweep of plant-based products

actually help you achieve:

We were making the change not so much for health, or cost, mostly for sustainability.

Because mass produced crops, often on the other side of the world, highly processed in essentially a chemical factory feels to me like it might be green washing rather than truly more sustainable. I’ve never found it difficult to eat a balanced tasty diet, without needing to categorically exclude food substances and by knowing what goes in my food and how it is prepared have a reasonably understanding of its wider impact.

Are the commercial providers of this stuff responding to latent market demand or stimulating media attention to drive market interest.

So to be clear your issue is that you disagree with a straw man, reductio ad absurdum interpretation of a statement on the internet that no one else on the thread agrees with?

Chill out and eat a bacon sandwich, you'll feel better for it.

Your one person crusade to save us from quackery isn't needed.

Because mass produced crops, often on the other side of the world, highly processed in essentially a chemical factory feels to me like it might be green washing rather than truly more sustainable. I’ve never found it difficult to eat a balanced tasty diet, without needing to categorically exclude food substances and by knowing what goes in my food and how it is prepared have a reasonably understanding of its wider impact.

Are the commercial providers of this stuff responding to latent market demand or stimulating media attention to drive market interest.

On Johns behalf, I'll point out your preposition hinges on several massive fallacies.

1) That somehow one persons vegetables come from the other side of the world and an others don't.

2) If you're referring to tofu as "highly processed in essentially a chemical factory" I should point out that 70% of world soya production goes into animal feeds. ~1/3 of the soya and soya products imported into the UK goes directly into animal feeds although the exact figure is likely higher as that doesn't include farmers buying the raw product and using it as feed rather than buying an animal feed containing soya.

3) I've not eaten any tofu.

4) Bulk transport of dried pulses has a very low carbon footprint, definitely compared to imported meat, and probably even compared to domestic transport of livestock and meat products.

Still trolling, I see.

There are a lot of proteins (BCAA’s) you (apparently, I’m quoting received wisdom here) can’t get from veg in sufficient quantities yes.

Of course, that could be bollocks

Turns out the non trolling half of this thread is actually useful!

Let's examine this statement (since it has caused so much rage):

"He is suggesting that we can resolve all our current health problems by going plant-based."

In hindsight, I probably should have changed the word all for most. But I wasn't expecting every single word to be taken so literally (nobody does, it's how we communicate, get over it).

Let's have a look at what he says can be prevented:

* heart disease
* lung disease
* brain diseases
* digestive cancers
* infections
* diabetes
* high blood pressure
* liver diseases
* blood cancers
* kidney disease
* breast cancer
* suicidal depression
* prostrate cancer
* Parkinson's disease
* Iatrogenic causes

Hopefully this explains why I said "all our current health problems", it seems pretty close to me and most normal people would except my sentence without being such a muppet.