[Closed] Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

Religion is an opinion.

As such, it is open to the same analysis, question and ridicule as any other opinion.

As for it being some 'special' kind of opinion that deserves different treatment from any other, well that's just playing into the hands of the deluded.
There is no right not to be offended.

All opinions, no matter how seemingly rational or deluded NEED to be challenged on a regular basis - it's how our human consciousness evolves.

Post reformation, we are allowed to discuss this issue rationally without the threat of death, but in some countries, questioning religious dogma still leads to death and torture.

Please think about this next time you get a bit offended because someone accuses you of believing in Faeries. That's the price you pay for BEING ABLE to believe in them.

Akin to a deathbed 'conversion'.

It always makes me laugh when you see murderers, rapists, child killers etc. on death row or in for life, that all of a sudden turn to religion... then a few years later you get someone like Lord Longford or Frank Bruno singing their praises and saying they need to be understood and given compassion.

Oh, and if you attempt to make the rest of us believe in them too, please expect the ridicule to be harsher and frankly, more thoroughly deserved than it would otherwise have been.

There are 5 main world religions.. all of them claiming to be the one true god (or Gods in the case of Sikhism). Therefore at least 4 of them are wrong.

Which are the 5 main religions? Would I be correct in assuming that you include Christianity, Judaism and Islam in that 5? If so, do they not all believe in the same God (the God of Abraham for want of a better term)?

Junkyard - Member

then told Loula Belle she was ........... going to hell

Junkyard, you are obviously going repeat that as your standard reply to everything I say.
Because presumably, you can't think of anything else to say.

Which I have to confess, gives me a warm feeling of satisfied smugness 8)

Would I be correct in assuming that you include Christianity, Judaism and Islam in that 5? If so, do they not all believe in the same God (the God of Abraham for want of a better term)?

They may all believe in the same God but they're not always the best of friends. And will happily exclude each other from their own heaven. Christians, for example, require one to "accept jesus as saviour" (or something like that) to get a ticket to the big party. Not many Jews or Muslims would do that.

[b]Let us have a show of hands:

How many non-believers have been persuaded to go to the Alpha Course by this thread?

How many believers have been convinced that their blind faith in an un-provable religion is wrong?[/b]

Quite. The conflict between Judaism and Islam has always makes me think of squabbling children. Christianity maybe slightly different since it follows on from the Old Testament, but I suppose the disharmony between Catholic and Protestant is not dissimilar.

IE, after claiming not to give people's religious views any sort of special treatment, you then dedicate almost a week of your life to slagging them off.

Who have I slagged off ? Most of the time on the thread I've been responding to comments or advancing theories. But this hasn't been "most of my life this week", just an occasional entertaining diversion. And forgive me, but I don't consider this to be special treatment - this is the topic we happen to be on, and I'm running with it. Another week it might be hifi or sports nutrition - however, one might suppose the the underpinning philosophy of life deserves more attention...

I'll have a guess Aristotle!

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Is that a weapons training course?

[i]Let us have a show of hands:

How many non-believers have been persuaded to go to the Alpha Course by this thread?

How many believers have been convinced that their blind faith in an un-provable religion is wrong? [/i]

Precisely. People who have already made their minds up are pretty much there for good. Religion attracts people who are undecided, have never even thought about it or who are suffering from some form of mental/sprititual crisis.

Atheism however, never took advantage of someone in a low place.

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Which are the 5 main religions? Would I be correct in assuming that you include Christianity, Judaism and Islam in that 5? If so, do they not all believe in the same God (the God of Abraham for want of a better term)?

Well I would agree with that but if you want to persuade the Jews and the Arabs (Perhaps you could start in Israel) that they worship the same God then best of luck to you.

ernie_lynch - Member
Junkyard - Member
then told Loula Belle she was ........... going to hell
Junkyard, you are obviously going repeat that as your standard reply to everything I say.
Because presumably, you can't think of anything else to say.
Which I have to confess, gives me a warm feeling of satisfied smugness

and I bet god is more annoyed at those who have worshipped a false god

well, one might hope for gods to be less petty that we are...
and if there are any and they have stipulations then they can spin on them.

It's a nice story but I'm afraid Christians had a pretty poor imagination. Hinduism, now those guys knew how to create a god. Lets take Ganesh for example. Bloke with an elephant's head. Rides round on the back of a rat. Snapped one of his tusks off to write the Mahabaratha.

Sweet.

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Well I would agree with that but if you want to persuade the Jews and the Arabs (Perhaps you could start in Israel) that they worship the same God then best of luck to you.

I can't today mate, going into town for a haircut then having some teeth out. Another time maybe.

Dobbo:

worst advert ... you still don't sound like you're convinced

As I said, I'm not interested in converting people, or promoting religion in any way. I just want to love God, and not be ridiculed for it 🙂

Convinced? Of course I'm not convinced. It's faith. 😀

SfB - I think youre needed over on the 'has anyone done a ouija board' thread - you might like to invite that nice ernie as well...
I'll pop the kettle on.

And Hindu holy men tend to be crazy mud-smeared tramps. That's definitely another point in their favour.

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The wise man mocks the man.
The mocked man mocks the mocker!

accept God's forgiveness

Let's be honest here. That doesn't mean a Quaker-style belief in God in a personal sense does it? That means get involved with organised religion, attend a church, and do what the bloke at the front of it tells you to do.

Aristotle - where's that t-shirt from?

buzz-lightyear

As I said, I'm not interested in converting people, or promoting religion in any way. I just want to love God, and not be ridiculed for it.

Please have a read of my post at the top of the page. You can't have one without the other.

Am I too late to claim post number 666?

A curse on you rustyspanner. I'll just make do with the number after the number of the beast.

No that was me 😀

And as I'm a rationist, it means nothing to me at all. Your views may vary, etc...........

You can be the Neighbour of the Beast instead. Ba-dum, tish!

Oh and here's a lovely quote from that Jon Ronson article, featuring Nicky Gumbel, the founder of the course:

"I was talking to a homosexual friend," says Tony, "and he said that ever since he was a child he found himself attracted to other boys. So why does the church think he's committing a sin? Are you going to Hell if you commit a sexual act that is completely normal to you? That seems a bit unfair, doesn't it?" There is a murmur of agreement from the group.

"First of all," says Nicky, "I have many wonderful homosexual friends. There's even an Alpha for gays running in Beverly Hills! Really! I think it's marvellous! But if a paedophile said, 'Ever since I was a child I found myself attracted to children', we wouldn't say that that was normal, would we?" A small gasp. "Now, I am not for a moment comparing homosexuals with paedophiles, but the Bible makes it very clear that sex outside marriage, including homosexual sex, is, unfortunately, a sin." He says he wishes it wasn't so, but the Bible makes it clear that gay people need to be healed.

"Although I strongly advise you not to say the word 'healed' to them," he quickly adds. "They hate that word."

Sounds like a lovely chap.

if wisdom grew on trees,
you would be a bush

LOL @ great ape
Dont try tomorrow or day after both busy worshiping same God on different days in different ways

well, one might hope for gods to be less petty that we are

one would but apparently not from Exodus (no not the movement of Jah people the other one in that book)

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

Seems only fair and what any all knowing all loving god would do .

And forgive me, but I don't consider this to be special treatment - this is the topic we happen to be on, and I'm running with it. Another week it might be hifi or sports nutrition - however, one might suppose the the underpinning philosophy of life deserves more attention...

Complete nonsense. There is a 3 page thread titled "Who will you vote for at the next election?"
What is your contribution on that thread ? As far as I can figure out, zero.

Now as someone who calls himself an "anarchist" I would have thought you might have had something to say on the subject. But clearly not. Despite the fact that "underpinning philosophy of life deserves more attention", as you put it. Because apparently challenging people 'religious views' is far more important to you, than challenging their 'political views'.

Fine - maybe there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, if that's what you want to do. But don't come out with all this bollox "I treat people's religious views exactly the same as any other opinion they might hold" You clearly don't. And you obviously single out people's religious views for special treatment. So get off your sanctimonious high-horse, and stop making false claims.

Junkyard - your repeated attempts to 'pretend' that you believe my "LoulaBaby you're going to hell" comment was a serious one, smacks of desperation. Can't you think of something else ?

one might hope for gods to be less petty that we are...

All I can say is it's a good job nobody gave me the ability to rain down a plague of frogs, flood the Earth on a whim or turn myself into talking shrubbery. I'd have used all three by the age of 14.

In fact I'd quite fancy being a talking hedge for a while, with or without the fire. Perhaps on a golf course?

What are Nicky Gumbel's views on knocking one out then? I'm fairly sure that the big G wouldnt approve, but then again, why would he have given us the equipment and not expected us to at least have a go, given human nature and all that?

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I'm really starting to enjoy this now........

[url= http://www.zazzle.co.uk/religious+embroidered+hats ]Zazzle.com
[/url]
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This is better though, from [b][url= http://www.jesushats.com/jesus-hats.htm ]Jesus Hats![/url][/b]:

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....and for Frankie goes to Hollywood fans:
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That's beatiful Aristotle, I'm on the mofo..

Barnsleymitch, I think Christians are generally of the opinion that cracking one off is bad. God supposedly killed this chap for doing it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan

I think since the advent of the Internet, warm duvets and disposable tissues there has been an epidemic of mysterious and sudden deaths, but no-one has managed to establish the connecting factor. Or perhaps God just sends them to Hell instead, he's nice like that.

Now as someone who calls himself an "anarchist" I would have thought you might have had something to say on the subject. But clearly not. Despite the fact that "underpinning philosophy of life deserves more attention", as you put it. Because apparently challenging people 'religious views' is far more important to you, than challenging their 'political views'.

I wasn't aware of an obligation to post to every thread. This is the one I've chosen. The politics one didn't attract my attention

Fine - maybe there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, if that's what you want to do. But don't come out with all this bollox "I treat people's religious views exactly the same as any other opinion they might hold" You clearly don't.

I think I actually said that I level the same degree of scepticism. But for the life of me I cannot see why sticking only to certain topics for their entertainment value is hypocritical - one cannot do [b]everything[/b] and I find politics mostly boring (and I'm scared of ouija boards)

Mr agreeable - that reminds me of the old joke about someone having a budgie called Onan, because he spilled his seed upon the ground.

We had the Jehovahs round a while back so I asked them my usual favourite questions about the dinosaurs and then about noahs ark. I asked how big would the ark have to be for all the animals in the world plus the food etc.. and the witness said that one of the other blokes at his church actually had drawn (or been given) some plans for how it was and he would show me them, he made excuses and went on his way despite me trying to ask him some more questions about Adam & eve. I never saw him again so I still don't know how big the ark was.

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ? Mind you I've never been able to read the bible because of the irritating presentation - after about 2 paragraphs I just slam it shut in disgust.

Dobbo, a quick [url= http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html ]search[/url] will answer all your questions 🙄

Mind you I've never been able to read the bible because of the irritating presentation - after about 2 paragraphs I just slam it shut in disgust.

😆 That's like saying I don't go to church because I don't like the vicars dog collar.

I'm still waiting for "tyger" to explain to me why it is that he/she has such a high regard for the ignorant bronze-age gibberish of scripture as opposed to all the enlightening advances made by humanity since then...

Presumably, the question is too difficult because it requires a tad more than responses such as "the big sky-daddy did it"?

Please, please, please, elighten us on this matter from your "tree of wisdom".

That's like saying I don't go to church because I don't like the vicars dog collar.

not exactly - I was brought up Catholic so I know quite a bit about the bible stories as related to me, but the book itself never holds my attention. As it happens I find most of the (few) parables I can rememeber quite good guidleines for living, never mind their source 🙂

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ?

The Bibble doesn't actually say. Some sects have interpreted it as the act being sinful, others reckon it was his disobedience of God that got him into trouble. There's also disagreement as to what Onan's sin actually was - masturbation, contraception, frottage, or taking her up the wrong 'un. 😯

Whatever the case, it's an interesting illustration of the way that the definition of what is "right" and "wrong" according to religion can vary quite dramatically, depending on which parts of the texts are currently being paid attention to, and which are being ignored due to the prevailing social climate. 🙂

vinnyeh - Member

Dobbo, a quick search will answer all your questions

Cheers for that, you'll have to pop back round some time. 😆

Does anyone really deep down believe that though?
In this day and age with the technology we have, with the history of boat making, with evolution proved, can anyone really think "Yep thats what happened he built a humungous boat that withstood a massive storm he collected 35,000 individual animals and food for them for 371 days then 8 people looked after them, then dropped them back off at the appropriate place in the world and life carried on".

I like they way they try to give it credit by saying scientists had studdied it:

However, a number of scientists have suggested that the animals may have gone into a type of dormancy.

OK scientists usually work on proven theory's but that seemed to have gone out of the window on this one.

I also like this bit:

How were the animals gathered?

Another enormous problem some have posed is the problem of gathering specimens of each kind of air-breathing land animal and bringing them aboard the Ark. However, the Genesis account indicates that God gathered the animals and brought them to Noah inside the ark two by two. Some have suggested this may have involved the origin of animal migratory instincts or, at least, an intensification of it. We also know that most animals possess the ability to sense danger and to move to a place of safety.

Well thats that one sorted then!

Mr Woppitt, if I thought for one minute you were seriously interested I'd happily provide you with an answer but all you do is mock and ridicule what is precious to me and seem to be without a grain of respect for anyone - including yourself, which I think is very sad, so I shall just keep praying for you.

There's also disagreement as to what Onan's sin actually was - masturbation, contraception, frottage, or taking her up the wrong 'un

There's a wrong 'un?

never mind the animals - where did all the extra [b]water[/b] go ? I think enough water to cover the extant land mass of the Earth might be hard to subsequently hide...

however one should not conflate the credibility of a book with the concept of divinity

You look at the damage done by a Tsunami where the water stays in for a matter of hours, the animals and people did well to keep alive and find food after the land was flooded for 371 days. I have a big respect for them now.

You look at the damage done by a Tsunami where the water stays in for a matter of hours

I think strictly speaking it's the first few [b]seconds[/b] that cause most of the damage 🙁

Omnipotence can do wonders. Well, that's what I've always found.

I obviously didn't realise the true meaning of CIA, but it explains a lot.
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I'm fairly sure that Onan's sin was having a sly tug, but then again, I'm not too sure - after all, the bible is a fairly big book, and like SFB, I struggled to finish it.

I'm fairly sure that Onan's sin was having a sly tug

Surely it's OK if you keep your eyes closed? 😆

100 years ago, when masturbation was regarded as the single biggest threat to civilisation, it was probably interpreted that way. Nowadays, with the Catholic Church bricking themselves that they're going to be outnumbered by Muslims in a few years, they're probably saying that Onan donned some sort of stone-age grogger.

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ?

Well. My hypothesis, based on what I've heard so far, is that "tyger" has no answer, so retreats into obfuscation whilst claiming hurt "feelings", disingenuous observations (as usual, without evidence - there are plenty of people who I respect, including many on here and also myself) and ends with a repetition of the intention to partake in a meaningless activity which will produce no result.

My conclusion is that the argument from religion seems incapable of producing anything of use, sense, or worth.

😕

Not just fine DaRC, de-riguer at Chez Mitchell...

is that "tyger" has no answer, so retreats into obfuscation whilst claiming hurt "feelings"

aren't you confusing him/her with ernie ?

On the upside, religion has inspired some great cathedrals and other art works...

As well as burning them down again SFB...

Last time I saw so many words, written by so many people, each with their own point of view, it had all been written into a book, blown if I can remember what it was called though............. 😉

Sorry DaRC-L, but if you crashing the yoghurt truck doesn't result in the making of more little Christians, you're going to hell. It says so in the Bible. Not literally mind, but it still says it.

simonfbarnes:

The artists, designers and builders were the ones responsible for those works, not the religion. There is equally impressive art and architecture that is not the result of religion. Those talented individuals would have produced just as impressive work by being completely secular.

As Richard Dawkins has put it - (I paraphrase) "Well yes, Handel's Messiah and Mozart's Requiem. But why no "Symphony to the Universe", which would probably sound just as impressive!"

Edit: Oh, just reread you. "Inspired" - yes. Still fiction, though. 🙂

Thou shalt not adorn ones other half with jelly jewellery.

Gen. 6:14-16

Nor shalt thy wipe thy dobber on the curtains whence thou hast shed thy seed.

Edit: Oh, just reread you. "Inspired" - yes. Still fiction, though

I admit I was kinda scraping the barrel...

marsdenman - was it Rogers Profanisaurus?

aren't you confusing him/her with ernie ?

You think my feelings have been 'hurt' SFB ? That's funny ....... 'cause I thought that you have sounded a little 'bruised' on occasions.

Oh well, there you go. Still. You've generally thoroughly enjoyed this 18 page thread - ain't you mate ?

You could say, that this thread has been 'heaven sent' for you ......... given you a new meaning and purpose to your life ?

Maybe that is how heaven is Simon. Not the "overlit dentists waiting room" which you imagine, where "you never get the fun of seeing the dentist", as you put it.

But a forum thread on religion which runs for eternity and into infinity ....... and, [u]you[/u] get to participate in !

Whaddya reckon me ol'fruitgum ?

Right, so we are to believe there were 35,000 different species on animal on the ark, does that not mean there should still only be that number?

Or has evolution been at work?

Why do I keep thinking this may be the post where Ernie admits he's been taking the p1ss and was having a laugh. 😐

Edit Talking to taking 😉

You're asking for a smiteing from on high Duggie! Evolution! You'll be talking about masturbation next!

where Ernie admits he's been talking the p1ss

WTF ???? Isn't this [i]whole[/i] thread about 'taking the piss' ??!! 😯

How the **** did I misread that ? 😕

Sorry 😐

sorry, late to all this (& too much to read)

[i]has[/i] anyone been on the course ?

There's a course?

or a curse - I've not really been concentrating

Every time I've been to a funeral its confused me that the grumpy man at the front first talks about the "sure and certain hope" that the deceased will spent eternity at god's right hand, and will be with all his old friends; and then says he will be at peace for all eternity.

So which one? Peace or Party?

I'm pretty sure I know how it feels to be dead. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It's like that. Probably.

" Mr Woppit - Member

The artists, designers and builders were the ones responsible for those works, not the religion. There is equally impressive art and architecture that is not the result of religion. Those talented individuals would have produced just as impressive work by being completely secular."

Can you give us an example? In pretty much every city I've been to, THE most impressive building has been the Cathedral. I recently visited Saint-Chapelle in Paris and walked around with my chin on the floor..

I'm not religious btw, but I realise that in 1248(!) only the church would have had the money or motivation to inspire an architect to design and build such a thing. I'm just trying hard to think of an impressive ancient secular building..