[Closed] Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

I don't think it's kind to call the religious types "sad and sorry goddists" - obviously their beliefs fill some need just as scepticism suits others. At root all beliefs are internal, arbitrary constructs, and for that matter you cannot tell what someone else believes as they may not be truthful about it.

I'm a bit late to this, just back from the pub. Could anyone give me a precis? Have we established which gods exist yet and which one's are the loving ones and which ones are the petty vindictive ones, and which one's have got the power. Has the book of Dave been revealed as the true source yet?

Perhaps your son would be better off being cared for by professionals? You wouldn't need your jesus crutch then.

Well. I do like being a prick on this forum, but it seems I'm an amateur.

I completely agree, that is one of the most unpleasant things I've seen posted in a forum.

it is wholly dependent on making a decision to believe in God and his son Jesus, and that Jesus died to save you.

Unles sof course you are able to give me proof that
1. Jesus existed.
2. God esists
3. Jesus was the son of God.
3. Jesus died to save me.

We know you cannot prove this and so do you.
Therefore in the absence of any supporting evidence I choose to beleive that God, fairies, ghosts and Santa does not exist.

Persuade me with eveidence not superstition.

I read your post Johnnie, but to my mind it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or was god or whatever. Gods can do god stuff and humans can do human stuff without obligating each other

Have we done the bit about science not being able to truely measure objective reality due to the effect of the intention of the observer, and scientists saying allow us just one miracle (something from nothing, i.e. big bang) and we'll explain the rest? 😀

Have we done the bit about science not being able to truely measure objective reality

that's a speculative construct too as we only have us to think about it, and we're all subjective

Unfortunately the uncertainty principle and Shrodingers cat is just to much for us all.

The fact there are gaps in the knowledge of science does not make it wrong. Assume God exists and we just say so who/what made God.So something somewhere came from nothing us or God and we at least know we exist.

Gods can do god stuff and humans can do human stuff without obligating each other

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"Well. I do like being a prick on this forum, but it seems I'm an amateur. "

Oh dear, that didn't come across too well, did it? Perhaps I should have been fluffier, given the difficult situation...

All I was suggesting was that, as professional palliative care is available to at least allow home carers time off to relax and recuperate, it might be a good idea to employ such.

Then the need for a religious crutch (as defined by the respondent herself) wouldn't be necessary. Or is that a bad idea?

Please don't hurt me, I'm only little.

;o)

professional palliative care

It's not terminal, you know!

No, but it sounds like loula is barely coping to me...

Tiboy - Member

...the simple truth is that He (God)gave his only Son so that we might be saved, that is the gift he offers us, eternal life, spent in heaven with Him

At the age of 14 I found that vey hard to believe and now, in my 30s, I don't find it any easier.

Please explain to me where the knowledge of this "[i]simple truth[/i]" comes from. I'm genuinely intrigued as you obviously know something that nobody else does.

Perhaps I should have been clearer just then; palliative care is for people dying at home, usually but not exclusively of cancer. Perhaps you should have a trawl back though her posts to find out what's up with her lad (no he isn't dying) and how she gets on with it. [edit: perhaps the word you meant was 'respite'.]

Though her religious/faith persuasions are news to me...

Loulabella, I can understand why you may be sensitive to criticism of Christianity or religion in general, look back and you'll see that most people who don't agree with your beliefs haven't been nasty and similarly don't expect that because of your own circumstances ( which are pretty well known here and with which I do sympathise ) you won't get picked up on comments that don't really stand up in the context of the discussion ( though I'll admit that I held off becuase it did seem harsh on you specifically).

Well, I've now read all of this thread in absolute dis-belief!! 8)

There's a family of so called "Christians" across the road from me and a nastier, snobbier, bitchier, judgemental group of people you would really struggle to find.
It would seem that their "christianity" only extends to white, middle-class, nicely-spoken like-minded types...

Sounds to me like ripe wind-up material.... Spray-can a pentagram on their front door after they've gone to bed.

Did I say that? I didn't say that.

whereas Jesus used to hang out with beggars, prostitutes (allegedly) and lepers, and insisted on turning the other cheek...

There's a family of so called "Christians" across the road from me and a nastier, snobbier, bitchier, judgemental group of people you would really struggle to find.

Imagine what they would be like if they weren't christians then....

feenster...sadly they do it all in the name of "Christianity"!!

They'd be OK I reckon...

"whereas Jesus used to hang out with beggars, prostitutes (allegedly) and lepers, and insisted on turning the other cheek... "

Allegedley.

feenster...sadly they do it all in the name of "Christianity"!!

Well, they haven't quite got the hang of it yet then, have they? Give them time.

Well, feenster...I reckon they've just about perfected it!! 😉

So Mother Theresa had it all wrong then? 😯

Actually, yes. Leaving aside all the harm she did with her so-called "charity" work, she went to her grave a broken woman - said she hadn't "found christ" despite all her years of self-denial and prayer...

So Mother Theresa had it all wrong then?

According to Christopher Hitchins yes. He claims she was not a friend to the poor but a friend to poverty.
She also said the greatest threat to the world was abortion. I disagree strongly with this.

Mr Woppit

By the way, C. S. Lewis was a pompous half-wit who couldn't write for toffee.

I disagree. It might be your opinion but you state it as a fact which is not true.

Tiboy - Always great to know another Christian 🙂

Ok, I'll stop trying to be clever, and say what I mean.

There is a saying I heard: "The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for Saints".

It's understandable, when observing people like FoxyChicks neighbours (and there's plenty of them), to conclude that if Christianity is all it claims to be, then people who proclaim themselves Christians should be better people than everyone else. Without knowing the starting points of these people, you could conclude that Christanity is rubbish, and that Christians are inconsistent with their own high standards. The thing is though, attaining a certain standard of goodness is not a pre-requisite for becoming or staying a Christian. Surely, by the nature of what they promise and aspire to, churches will be full of broken and immature people, who have a long way to go emotionally, spiritually and morally?

... she (Mother Teresa)went to her grave a broken woman - said she hadn't "found christ" despite all her years of self-denial and prayer...

So she's burning in hell right now?

By the way, C. S. Lewis was a pompous half-wit who couldn't write for toffee

I disagree. It might be your opinion but you state it as a fact which is not true

I don't know if he was a pompous half-wit (he seemed OK in the film about the woman who broke her leg) but I doubt history will record him as a truly great writer, philosopher or theologian.

TMH - I reckon the Narnia Chronicals, Out of the Silent Planet trilogy and his theological books make him a great writer to a great many.

Does that have any relevance to debate? Writing well doesn't make an opinion more or less valid.

FYI, C.S. Lewis used to be an atheist, then later recanted and became a Christian. The film mentioned above is "Shadowlands", a personal favourite.

clubber - I just took exception to Mr Woppit's remark. 🙂

sfb - Shadowlands is a fav of mine too.

Ok, another one for debate

- I find it impossible to believe in the god that some people have made up for whatever purpose and written about in the bible. (I can quote the origins of the bible above as fact as that's what I believe 😉 ). I honestly have tried to see if I could believe but cannot - it all just seems so obviously made up by people.

- the bible says that man has free will

- the christian god has therefore made me in a way that means I am damned to hell right from the start (unless of course I had been brainwashed to think otherwise)

That doesn't sound like a loving god to me?

FYI, C.S. Lewis used to be an atheist, then later recanted and became a Christian.

- the christian god has therefore made me in a way that means I am damned to hell right from the start

No it was either the snake or the wife. Something about an apple.

Actually it was about Adam and Eve's disobedience and it was a fruit - it doesn't mention an apple.

You can't make someone love you so God gave us free-will so we could choose.

You're either for Him or against Him but the offers there (until you die). Truth of the matter is that God loves you.

Alpha is a good course and very non-threatening. There's no harm in just asking questions (but maybe there are some on here who are afraid of the answers).

You're either for Him or against Him

simplistic. If a god does good stuff I don't mind it but how would I ever know? I choose indifference. It seems to me unnecessarily anthropomorphic to refer to a god as 'Him', unless you're suggesting there are more than one and they have sex ?

(but maybe there are some on here who are afraid of the answers

I'm certainly unwilling to be told the 'answers' at length...

sfb - your questions would be typical of those being raised at an Alpha course - I reckon you could do worse than try it!

As for me, well to believe in a God means also believing in a Devil and I also believe in The Trinity of God - but once again, these are the questions being raised on Alpha.

tyger - Member

You're either for Him or against Him but the offers there (until you die). Truth of the matter is that God loves you.

There it is again. What is this "[i]Truth[/i]" of which people speak? Surely the truth of the matter is that some people want to believe that their god loves them and that they practice various rituals and traditions that have been developed over the years by other people in order to please the god in which they strongly believe.

The poor, unlucky inhabitants of the world who happened not to be within reach of the founders of a particular religion/existed before the founders became enlightened/died before a religion changed its rules to suit the times were/are presumably condemned to an eternity of damnation.

Or maybe it's all baseless and untrue?

As for me....I also believe in The Trinity of God

sfb - your questions would be typical of those being raised at an Alpha course - I reckon you could do worse than try it!

I wish - were I able to believe I could marry my g/f. Unfortunately it would require a lobotomy 🙁

I'm intrigued by the idea that God must be something one can see or touch in order to believe in, rather than say as a concept which exists only in the mind (for that is where concepts can only exist).

It isn't possible to see sub-atomic particles, but much of science - certainly physics - is based on their existence and behaviour. Must I deny them until I can see them with my own eye, and even if I can see them, what should I do with them?

Dwakins: intelligent man, but simplistic evangelist.

I have no faith, nor any desire or need for faith. But I do not dismiss those who do on the basis of their having faith alone. I judge others by their behaviour toward their fellow man. I might, say, follow a Mills-ian approach, and view the World in an entirely utiliarian way, or I might apply the Leviathan and the concept - look, there it is again - of the war of all against all.

I shall, irrespective of the religious beliefs of any, look at human behaviour on the basis of what it does to others before I decry the faith, atheism or agnosticism of those people. We are often little more than what we do, and so adopting the playground mindset of "prove it", either way, does not move any of this forward in the context of human relations, other than to demonstrate that unwavering belief in anything or nothing is of little use when, for example, I come to mourn the passing of a loved one or celebrate the joy of a newborn child.

So, returning to the OP's question, should he go on the Alpha Course. Naturally, but also stop by the nearest mosque, synagogue, greyhound track and pub. Tell us which helped you, in your situation, the most.

Good luck.

sfb -

I wish - were I able to believe I could marry my g/f. Unfortunately it would require a lobotomy

One of my best friends is a lecturer with and Physics degree and a Theology degree and he believes the same as me as a Christian. You don't kiss your brain away by taking a step of faith.