in much the same way that fanatical atheists insist rather childishly, to spell God without a capital gee, despite the fact of it being quite incorrect.
My usage is god or gods in the sense of an unknown number, where 'Gods' wouldn't make sense
God –noun
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. (lowercase) any deified person or object.
8. (often lowercase) Gods, Theater.
a. the upper balcony in a theater.
b. the spectators in this part of the balcony.
I should probably point out that I've spelt "God" as "god" previously because I was on my mobile and couldn't be bothered to capitalise it...
isn't it the nature of conversation to wander ? If I were talking to someone who insisted we had to stick the their agenda I'd soon lose interest.
.
This thread didn't "wander", it was immediately sabotaged and hijacked by fanatical atheists in a feeding frenzy of abuse and insults.
Indeed the bulk of this thread (which despite being 3 days old is about to overtake Petesgaff's month old thread in size) appears to be nothing more than abuse, insults, and ridicule.
Quite why some feel the need to resort to hysterical rantings full of abuse, I'm not sure I understand. But I do find it 'interesting'. Maybe it betrays a lack of confidence in their own beliefs.
Because whilst I personally have very strong beliefs, I find when I am confronted with someone who has diametrically opposed opinions that rather than launching into a hysterical frenzy of insults and abuse, I calmly sit back in the warm comfort of my own smugness.
I am able to calmly make my point (or to not bother making my point, if I so wish) confident in the superiority of my beliefs. Much in the same way as someone who has perfected a fighting system feels no need to shout and holler in an altercation.
It would appear that some of the more hysterical atheists, might be a little unsure about their own strengths.
The problem with this thread is that anyone with an ounce of common sense, has stayed out of it. I rather stupidly blundered into it, in the naive belief that I could make a point, and leave it at that.........despite all my instincts telling me otherwise.
Ernie I dont recognise the "abuse and insults" etc and I am not sure why you should feel the need to be quite so indignant. This thread has been no more or less offensive than many you yourself have partaken in.
Could it be the subject matter and the fact that you may feel it should be beyond sensible debate? Are you being hypersensitive?
You appear to be more guilty than most of using emotive and melodramatic assertions in your posts, which has suprised me a little.
I have made my position clear and summarised it on the previous page. If you read that you will see why I feel it is appropriate to challenge religion and not to be diverted.
My usage is god or gods in the sense of an unknown number, where 'Gods' wouldn't make senseGod –noun
1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.
3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.
5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.
6. (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.
7. (lowercase) any deified person or object.
8. (often lowercase) Gods, Theater.
a. the upper balcony in a theater.
b. the spectators in this part of the balcony.
Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post
Ah, you resort to pointing out the 'rules' to me SFB !
So you don't believe in "linguistic anarchy" after all ? !
Or do you support it when spoken, but not when written ? !
LOL !
a hysterical frenzy of insults and abuse
Where? Really, where on this thread are you seeing a "[i]a hysterical frenzy of insults and abuse[/i]"?
The thread I see is actually pretty restrained and largely discussed at the general, rather than personal, level (leaving the LoulaBella/MrWhopit thing out of it).
confident in the superiority of my beliefs
superior for [b]you[/b] perhaps, but we're all different
I calmly sit back in the warm comfort of my own smugness.
I said you were just teasing us 🙂
As an aside, how would one measure the superiority of a belief ? Bearing in mind it's inherently an act of faith not based on concrete fact, what relative criteria can be applied ? Is believing in two gods twice as good or only half as good ? My suggestion would be on behaviour, which on this thread at least has us about level pegging.
Ah, you resort to pointing out the 'rules' to me SFB !
language doesn't really have rules, it's [b]usage[/b]. However, in the same way I wasn't convinced that evolutionary theory applies identically to societies as to species, my disrespect for the rule of law doesn't necessarily extend for instance to the rules of physics or snooker.
Ernie I dont recognise the "abuse and insults" etc
Some people have though...
LoulaBella - MemberHow come all the 'atheists' on here are so horrible and full of snide sarcastic putdowns about Christians?
You dont see me writing derogatroy comments about you and your beliefs. I'm not trying to convert any of you, if your happy then fair play, live and let live and all that jazz.Posted 2 days ago
How come LoulaBella no longer posts on this thread ......... it is clearly a subject close to her heart ?
I suspect that Woppit's insults eventually became too offensive to stomach.
my disrespect for the rule of law doesn't necessarily extend for instance to the rules of physics or snooker.
You mean you didn't have one of those Roox(?) "Gravity: I fought the law" t-shirts back in the day?
I didn't spot too many hysterical atheists in the thread either, unless you regard all atheists as hysterical.
I can't beleive this is still rolling, I'm so not interested in reading it all either too many petty arguments, let people with their beliefs be no matter which way they fall and remember as a wise man once said "Never loose faith in the colour of the sky ..."
it was immediately sabotaged and hijacked by fanatical atheists in a feeding frenzy of abuse and insults.
So what you really mean is an insensitive remark that (as far as I can see didnt offend LoulaBella) which I agree was badly worded gives rise to the description above?
LoulaBella did post a couple of times after this and even posted a picture of her beautiful son.
Could you be guilty of "offence by proxy"?
I think you are over egging it a bit Ernie.
You're very sensitive ernie which by your own logic suggests actually that it's you not quite so sure of your beliefs as you'd like to try and portray.
Anyway, leaving aside Woppit (since I think it's just his style to post in that way, either that or he's trolling), can you go through and pull out from each of the main contributors, including me, where we've sabotaged and hijacked and given abuse and insults. I'd be keen to see whether what to me seems mainly perfectly reasoned comments are being taken by you as insults/abuse.
Loulabella should really comment for herself but I suspect that she's too close to it emotionally to be reading some of the comments how they're intended. I made the point at the time that if she reads the comments back she'd probably see that they're mainly not intended to insult/abuse (Woppit excepted again though technically I think he was being extremely insensitive rather than actually insulting/abusive).
I suspect that you're mistaking the 'non-believers'' challenging of religion as insults when it isn't. For instance, I've mentioned mumbo jumbo a few times. That's not meant as an insult about religion but rather about the dogma that surrounds it and to me seems reasonable enough - what's wearing a silly hat got to do with believing in God (capitalised!) or not?
I guess I just decided to stay out of it but as I've been name checked...
This thread
Offensive - yes
Ignorant - yes
full of moaning old gits - yes (rudeboy agrees with me 🙂 )
Was talking about this forum post last night with the girls over a glass or two of wine and we were wondering what atheists shout out during, ahem, sex?
[b]'DARWIN, OH DARWIN, OH DAWKINS, OH MY, OH GOSH!'[/b]
Not very sexy.
I'm so not interested in reading it all either too many petty arguments
I think what people are willing to believe is fascinating, perhaps because I'm so sceptical
as a wise man once said "Never loose faith in the colour of the sky ..."
too wise for me I don't understand what it means
So, Ernie, by "[i]fanatical atheists in a feeding frenzy of abuse and insults[/i]" do you mean [u]one[/u] person has upset [u]one[/u] other person (and possible a few more who were upset by association)?
Loula, you posted since I did.
Offensive - yes
Ignorant - yes
Out of interest, can you give some examples - I know there are some, clearly but do you honestly think that all the comments that don't agree with your views are offensive and ignorant?
Not very sexy.
one doesn't necessarily need actual [b]words[/b]...
PS "Gosh" means God
You're very sensitive ernie........
😀 Not at all.
In fact ....... I find the way some people appear to get carried away with their own insults, really rather amusing. Although I do appreciate that it is not so funny for some other people.
........anyways, I think it's time to just 'sit back in the warm comfort of my own smugness' now 8)
If you have a faith great.
If you haven't well thats great also.
If you feel prayers have been answered whilst going through bad times. Well, thats good also.
Its all about what makes a person happy and what can get them through life in general.
We are all individual people and have our own beliefs and opinions so lets stop the pointless arguing and chill.
Peace and Love mannnnn.
toby1 – I couldn't agree more
These are from the first three pages. After that I got bored. We could argue about whether they are "ignorant" and "offensive". But they don't exactly add up to a pleasant tone of conversation or erudite debate. 🙂
[i]embarrassing for the civilised world
brain washing ceremonies
Vacuous gibberish sold by delusional, brainwashed propagandists.
Adults with imaginary friends are stupid.
a form of child abuse
Faith is complete shite.
just childish
brianwashing [sic] by do-gooders
a crock of sh!t whichever way you spread it
the weak, the needy and the impressionable.
Your doctrine requires faith because it is utter b0llocks.
sheeple
like a toddler smacked up on Sunny-D and demanding reasurnace [sic] that you are some how "special".
dressing up in silly outfits and saying mumbo jumbo[/i]
I keep quiet during sex, hoping god turns a blind eye to the contraceptives 🙂
bigdummy - Very good. One thing religion certainly does is cause people to insult one another. Hence the reason we have so many wars today.
one doesn't necessarily need actual words...PS "Gosh" means God
the illusion is shattered for me now 😉
calm rational view on religion from an atheist POV 😉
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8187954.stm ]Newsnight vid[/url]
Have we reached the Renaissance yet?
😉
is there a place of worship/belonging for stoic hedonsists?
I'm sticking to my policy of pantheistic indifference.
but do you honestly think that all the comments that don't agree with your views are offensive and ignorant?
no but do you honestly think none of them are offensive?
See BD above of which one is actually mine 😳
is there a place of worship/belonging for stoic hedonsists?
Isn't that Ibiza?
No, I didn't think all the comments weren't offensive (and I said that) but this is a public forum and unfortunately there will always be people who do just throw insults - that doesn't mean that all the comments were insulting or abusive, mine included (despite being included in BD's list...)
Bikingcatastrophe - Memberis there a place of worship/belonging for stoic hedonsists?
Isn't that Ibiza?
What, like God is a DJ sort of thing? 🙂
I think Mr Woppit is Richard Dawkins.
that doesn't mean that all the comments were insulting or abusive, mine included (despite being included in BD's list...)
Which one was yours?
no but do you honestly think none of them are offensive?
Theres an old saying (dont know the source)
"If you dont like your beliefs being laughed at you shouldnt have such funny beliefs"
I think Mr Woppit is Richard Dawkins.
Nah, Dawkins is far more reasonable, unless to happen to be a young earth/intelligent design pushing fundie, or a c*ck like Cormac Murphy-O'Connor
Been scanning this one periodically and I think for those who are protecting that it has not been rude or insensitive are being a tad disingenuous. For those that have a faith, of whatever variety, it is a personal thing. Many of those who do have a faith have had experiences that are not easily explained and would appear to fit with their beliefs. For example, it is not unusual these days in Africa to hear of people being raised from the dead after apparently days of being "dead like". I'm sure there will be sceptics who won't believe or will find some scientific explanation. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But to start calling people stupid, impressionable, brainless is not really a very rational argument is it? Maybe it is something that you cannot suscribe to but does that give you permission to disrespect someone else? As someone else suggested, perhaps you are not so very sure of your own beliefs or yet found a way to deal with your anger issues. Or perhaps, discovering that maybe when left to our own devices society struggles to develop a set of principles to live by that help us to understand what is an acceptable way to behave with other people, what constitutes respect and tolerance. If we summed up the STW collective vision of values from the past few weeks it would include:
Nutting someone
Weeing in shoes because someone did something you don't like
Accusing people of believing in fairy tales because they believe something that doesn't fit with your personal agenda or beliefs
It's ok to keep something that has been sent to you in error (aka stealing)
etc
Ok, so some of it is a bit tongue in cheek, but not exactly inspiring stuff is it?
And then, back to the OP. Sure, why not give it a go. What's the worst thing that will happen? You lose an evening a week for a few weeks. In return you get a free meal and a chance to ask interesting questions and see what sort of answers you get. Is the Alpha course a vehicle for converting people? In a way, yes it is, of course it is. But the goal of the Alpha course is to give people an open forum to discuss the issues that crop up in life and to see what Christianity has to say about it. If you don't think you are interested in that then don't go. Just like the TV. If there's something on you don't like then switch channels or switch off. Not exactly difficult is it?
Anyway, I have fed the troll for now. 😉
I think it was inevitable that this thread would turn into a debate on the wider merits of religion, but lot of those comments quoted by BD were made in relation to the OP, i.e. what do people think of the Alpha Course. Here's a quote from one of the "offensive" people:
let's be clear about Alpha. It is not a service to society provided by the church to allow us to think neutrally about the big issues. It is an evangelical tool. If it didn't have a positive conversion rate it would have been dropped long ago. It's no better that a scientologists 'personality test' or time-share sales (in the hereafter).
That sounds spot on to me, along with the description of them as "bottom feeders". Read the Jon Ronson article where the Alpha guy is bragging about how many prison ministries they have. Religion has an immediate, easy appeal to people who are in difficult circumstances and that's why stuff like Alpha gets peoples' backs up - it offers a panacea but no guarantee of real support.
Mine was the last one about funny clothes IIRC
[i]That sounds spot on to me[/i]
I agree. It has the beautiful merit of addressing the question actually asked, without calling anyone a fool. 🙂
For example, it is not unusual these days in Africa to hear of people being raised from the dead after apparently days of being "dead like". I'm sure there will be sceptics who won't believe or will find some scientific explanation. Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But to start calling people stupid, impressionable, brainless is not really a very rational argument is it?
Leaving aside those pesky scientists and their habit of explaining stuff!
There are lots of "things" "heard" from Africa particularly regarding black magic etc. A considerable amount of them involve hurting people! Are these people "impressionable" or "brainless" or is it OK to call some people who partake in barbaric rituals these things but not those that have similarly unprovable beliefs?
I wont comment on your "rational argument" comment, maybe you want to re-think it.
Removed, as I promised myself I'd never get involved with one of these threads again.
Not sure I understand what I need to be rethinking. Calling people stupid is not a rational argument. And neither is just saying "no it isn't" - to quote a well known sketch about arguments. And I'm also not quite sure where your black magic comment comes into the mix. Maybe a different conversation? I don't recall writing anything about black magic or barbaric rituals.
is it OK to call some people who partake in barbaric rituals these things but not those that have similarly unprovable beliefs?
I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head there surfer ........although I'm not entirely certain you meant to.
The OP [b]didn't[/b] say :
"I'm considering attending an Alpha course, it will [i]'involve hurting people in barbaric rituals'[/i], what do you all think of that ?"
I think its all become a bit surreal!
