[Closed] Gutting/depressing to find you've lost fitness over time

losing fitness is fun, getting it isn't

#Hugs.

It is a bit shite when that happens.

I'm in training mode too, I currently blow chunks at 180bpm and I don't think thats very funny 😆

weeksy - Member

I love pies

That's a lot of worrying about minutiae for a monday morning. Getting hung up on them can't be any good for the enjoyment of the hobbies, can it?

Age reduces your max HR, doesn't it? So, over "several years" your max will be less than it was before. Ergo, stop worrying ya fanny and get on with it! 🙂

That's a lot of worrying about minutiae for a monday morning. Getting hung up on them can't be any good for the enjoyment of the hobbies, can it?

Arguably no, you're right, it can't be. But I can separate the fun bits like BPW from the 'training' aspects of things. I've been 'tracking' my recent progress to see how/where/why I'm not doing as well as I'd like in a speed/race context. I thought at times it was getting used to the new road-bike, or slower wheels being fitted to the Meta, or just... I dunno... blaming everything else.

The realisation has dawned though... I'm just not as quick/fast.... The one reason why is, because I've spent the last 12 months 'cruising' my fitness, not really driving, striving, pushing... going out and riding hard at times, but not hard enough, not long enough, not consistently enough. Hence, my fitness has dropped.

You really need HR and Power output to measure fitness changes, as HR alone doesn't tell you that much. Same power for lower HR = fitter, lower HR, but lower Power = less impressive etc.

Lower hr max can be a sign of not being rested. Have a week off and start again, you should be able to get up to Max quite easily after that.

Or enter a race, don't look at your HR until afterwards, and find you spent 40 minutes at what you thought was your max!

I'm not sure that your inferences about HR are right. I'm kind of the same position in that up to around 10 years ago I was really fit, training all the time. Now I'm really not... My HRs are much the same though just the power I'm putting out is quite different unfortunately...

If my power were the same and my HR lower, then theoretically I'd be putting in lower PB times... I'm not.

Far too many variables for HR to be a particularly useful metric in training/fitness.

Far too many variables for HR to be a particularly useful metric in training/fitness.

On it's own yes, however combined with other things like a known quantity of a fixed performance bike, e.g in the gym on a bike that doesn't change... or a perceived MAX effort over a given time, it's a fair indication that things are not as 'good' as they were in the past.

If you add in the inability to reach a high BPM, inability to maintain a 160+ (for example) along with the problem that my times over distances both inside and outside the gym are not as good as they were, I'd think all of these would imply that I'm less fit than in the past ?

I would stop focusing on gadgets and tiny details ,try getting back to basics.
What kind of mileages are you doing and what (truthful) effort are you putting in on them ?

Oh,and don't forget that you have to try harder as you get older 😉

fasthaggis - Member

I would stop focusing on gadgets and tiny details ,try getting back to basics.
What kind of mileages are you doing and what (truthful) effort are you putting in on them ?

Oh,and don't forget that you have to try harder as you get older

Well that's a bit of an internal debate mate. However it's only recently come to debate. I 'thought' I was putting in the effort, but once I bought the road bike I've realised how little of the MTB ride I've been putting in the effort on. I've noticed that even when I thought in the past I was pushing hard, I actually wasn't really.

Over the course of 2014 I've done just on 3000km. About 50% of that is outdoor and 50% indoor. I've been making excuses for the indoor results, I used to work on 36km being the average (I know that means nothing in the real world, but it's a figure that doesn't change, 36km on a particular bike in gym is 36km on that particular bike, so you have something to gauge your 'best). At my peak I hit a 37.8km in the hour on that machine, but currently I'd struggle to hit 36km in all honesty. I've had some injuries, some issues and some holidays, meaning less bike time and less pushing myself hard in the past 6 months, but like I say, these are all just excuses I've made up in my own head for not having the results I should be able to maintain.

I'm not focusing on the gadgets, but they give a tangible 'result' that you can gauge, see and 'feel'

Sounds more like you need a rest than are unfit. Usually inability to reach high HR/PE as high as normal/performance dips = virus/illness/over trained. But if you are only doing short efforts then HR lag will come into it - i doubt i'd be even close to zone 4 after 1 min.

Being unfit (IME) means HR is quicker to rise than being well trained.

I think I'm about as fit as I've ever been, never seem to get my heart rate much above 160ish even on big climbs. I can do a 100 km race in 5.30-6 ish hours averaging about 145ish. I do worry I never see the high heart rates people seem to talk about, but I'm still kicking along at a pace I'm happy (ish) with.

I usually use the 1min as a guage as it's a known quantity, e.g after 20 mins, spinning along nicely with some work, some easy etc, I know that if I do 1 mins sprint with 1 mins rest roughly where my heart rate is and should ideally be.

For doing sustained higher HRs I use climbing, but at the moment I can't hold the climb either fast enough or long enough before I throw in the towel and can't continue, so can't actually reach any higher HRs.

Using the 'need a rest' just feels like an excuse to me, I was at BPW on Thurs then I had Fri and Sat off the bike and a 45km road blast on Sunday. Legs are a bit stiff/weary, but nothing I don't regularly have/feel.

It's a tough one ,but your 900[b]miles[/b] outdoors needs to be quality effort ,or that's part of your problem right there.
For me ,nothing beats a decent amount of quality road miles.

I have tried training hard off road ( for off road events) and it just doesn't work for me(apart from getting my skills level up ).
All my hard miles on the road bike seem to translate straight away to my off road riding.

Problem in that context is that I'm doing more road at the moment, whilst it's making me train harder, work harder and push myself harder than the last few months (and the results are improving compared to my PB's), I can't say I enjoy it in the slightest. It doesn't give me the same sensations as being out on the trails (which doesn't give me the same sensations as BPW either)... But it's a means to an end.

Then you need to decide whether you want the outcome of the training (going faster) more than you want the alternative (doing rides you'll enjoy more)...

What nemesis said. What is the "end"? If it's fitness itself, I guess that's OK, but what's the fitness for?

To feel like you're progressing as a cyclist?
To get higher on Strava leaderboards?
Finish higher in races?
Keep up with mates?

If it's just something you've decided on to put a bit of structure round the riding, and it's not helping you enjoy the riding, why not shift your focus?

Forget about the fitness for a bit, ride some different routes, longer and more adventurous (multi day?) shorter with some sessioning, work on some skills? Ride with some different people? Singlespeed your bike, buy a fatbike/ 'cross bike...

You think losing one summer to injury is bad, I've missed the last 3!

I wasn't feeling too bad last winter, infact I was feeling quite good up untill I broke my arm the third time, then it was 4 months of nothing at all, and then I switched to sailing, which whilst great for some things and is really physicaly demanding on a windy day, isn't great training in itself as there's no garentee the weather will give you a windy day 3x a week. So I'm now right at the bottom of the fitness scale, I get overtaken by MAMILs! Need to do a serious ammount of cross training this winter.

Age lowers max heart rate, getting fitter lowers max heart rate.

Ned,

Based upon my speed at BPW, as a cyclist in a going downhill context I've certainly progressed as a rider this year, my skils and techniques are better than they were and it's shown in my ability to get down trails.

The goals have come about and been noticed from riding with other mates, one of whom posts on here as Crosshair, I've noticed that I've lost my performance in comparison to him, resulting in noticing when putting Strava on that I've also lost my performances against my PB's.

As for the logic/reasons, It's basically down to personal pride, along with weight playing a factor in there too. My riding mates locally are very rarely people I ride with off-road, the timings don't seem to work out for me, most of their rides are evenings, for me, evenings are time with the wife and boy, despite the fact they also have kids the same age, I just prefer my evenings to be at home.

The ability to do the longer more adventurous riding is quite tough as time and life plays a massive factor in that, I get a certain time on certain days and there's mostly/often very little I can do about the timings.

Don't get me wrong, apart from destroying some of the pleasure of riding, I certainly believe the last few weeks has helped me since starting to push, the results are improving a bit... but has shown me how far they'd slipped.

Heart rate doesn't track with your progress. My race heart rates are much higher now that I am less fit.

Not sure why. Maybe I was over training before or maybe I had a larger stroke volume.

I've come to the conclusion that all this modern "performance and tracking" paraphernalia we seem to have to surround ourselves with is an un-necessary, and often depressing, distraction from the main event, namely, riding a bike 'cause it's fun!

(with the exception for if you're actually competing at a high enough level for it to be meaningful)

maxtorque - Member

I've come to the conclusion that all this modern "performance and tracking" paraphernalia we seem to have to surround ourselves with is an un-necessary, and often depressing, distraction from the main event, namely, riding a bike 'cause it's fun!

(with the exception for if you're actually competing at a high enough level for it to be meaningful)

Agree 100%. It doesn't help in some ways. But riding a bike isn't always about fun. Plus, without the fitness and stuff, the fun factor can deteriorate as you simply can't ride some things unless you're fitter.

I've just spent a week away from my training schedule and have a seven mle run planned for tonight. I am not looking forward to it. I _know_ it will not be fun, nor will tomorrow's bike ride.

Also, as the weather turns more rubbish and the nights draw in, I'll be spending less time on the bike and more time running in the rain, so will enjoy the running less and less. The only upside is that I can expect zero sympathy about it from y wife because she can't understand why I train.

The look on the wifes face when I get back from a ride pouring with sweat and looking like I'm about to expire never ceases to amuse me.

I'm sure she does actually believe I have mental issues.

Age lowers max heart rate, getting fitter lowers max heart rate.

I think it's more to do with being unfit lowers max heart rate over time. Eating suggar, smoking, or anything else that ****s up your arteries will lower your hearts ability to do it's job. So people who have been fit all their lives tend to have higher max HR's. So on average you'll lose 1bpm per year, but it's not gaurenteed.

That and when I'm unfit I struggle to do a 20min FT test at any intensity let alone at 105% of FTP or whatever, there probbaly is a pace I could do for 20 min, but it'd not be FTP, but it'd just be eaking out my energy reserves rather than my aerobic capacity. Hence why most exercise plans state the 220-age formula, then say do a test after 8 weeks, once your FTP, maxHR, resting HR, etc actualy mean something usefull.

The look on the wifes face when I get back from a ride pouring with sweat and looking like I'm about to expire never ceases to amuse me.

You should really do a warm down 🙂

FTP is what you can do for an hour. That is its definition. You can't be too unfit to do a FTP test.

There are other measures such as OBLA which look at what is happening in your blood etc.

FTP is what you can do for an hour. That is its definition. You can't be too unfit to do a FTP test.

There are other measures such as OBLA which look at what is happening in your blood etc.

Ok, but by conventional definition the onset of blood lactate accumulation is the same as your FT, and from that point most people are looking to get small percentage improvements in that through any training plan.

I suspect my power at OBLA is probably quite a bit higher than my FTP because they'd be limited by different factors. Given a couple of months of structured training they'd probably be coincident.

Try riding the road bike with a group of stronger riders you'll soon build fitness and it'll be more fun too.

All the roadies apart from 1 is stronger and faster than me. Some by quite a lot!

It doesn't make it more fun, its just exercise on the road bike, theres no fun.

So what are you going to do about it? Apart from all this public wailing and whining? 😉

If the road bike is no fun you're doing it wrong! Solo riding can be dull group riding at least gives you somone to talk to but speeding along in a chain gang much much faster than you could ever go solo is brilliant.

BWD, I'm training in the last 2 weeks harder, faster and longer than I have in the last 2 years

Awesome! Don't forget to factor in some recovery as well 🙂

Be patient and give it 6 months of rides- you will be lighter, faster stronger-it just takes time. Don't unduly pressure yourself. Some of the others have increased their speed/endurance lots this year by just riding. Lower heart rate peaks might just mean you are tired at the moment.

hope you get it sorted.

There's no doubt i'll sort it mate. I'm back on the 5-2 diet and working exceptionally hard both in the gym and out on the bike. My averages have increased out on the bike and my spin classes in the gym are hard and exceptionally sweaty.
I accept I'm older than this time last year when my PBs were set, but I don't feel being older is a valid excuse.

I will get back to my best, I will beat my best...

I'm not there yet 🙁

I'm pretty much 50yrs old. I'm currently faster on the road bike than I ever have been (since I started recording rides anyway). Mostly that's because I'm probably still nowhere near as good as I could be but I've ridden more this year. I quite like seeing my times improve over my regular rides but equally I could bemoan the "slow" years instead, if I was so inclined.

Cheer up, enjoy how fast you are or enjoy trying to improve or else give it up - if BPW is what you enjoy, celebrate the fact that you can ride places like that really well using skill rather than absolute fitness. If you don't like riding your road bike, why should you care how fast you can do it if it's not really affecting the riding you do enjoy ?

Yeah, keep "fit" for your health's sake but you don't have to be at your best all the time. I doubt being really fit is actually good for you anyway.

donut, anybody ? 😳

Do you have a goal in mind that you're aiming towards, such as a xc or 24 hour race? If so then the road bike is a good tool for the job. If you just want to keep fit generally, then ditch the road bike if you really don't enjoy it. Nothing will demotivate you like doing something you don't have any fun doing. Stick to the mtb and gym if that's what you enjoy. I wouldn't have thought a drop off of fitness is down to age. You're only early 40s aren't you. I'm 4 years older than you and still set pbs on our local trails and roads, and even have a reasonable amount of koms too.

I don't feel being older is a valid excuse.

That is so veeeery true on many levels.

Crack on I say, don't forget the rest, looks to me like you are doing a bit too much, but then I'm not you..

pete68 - Member

Do you have a goal in mind that you're aiming towards, such as a xc or 24 hour race? If so then the road bike is a good tool for the job. If you just want to keep fit generally, then ditch the road bike if you really don't enjoy it. Nothing will demotivate you like doing something you don't have any fun doing. Stick to the mtb and gym if that's what you enjoy. I wouldn't have thought a drop off of fitness is down to age. You're only early 40s aren't you. I'm 4 years older than you and still set pbs on our local trails and roads, and even have a reasonable amount of koms too.

Not really a goal in all honesty no. I've looked round at various events and the ones I used to have as my yearly goals no longer exist, the Afan Monster and the Maxx exposure, SDW at night.
The road bike was purchased with a specific use in mind which was as a training tool, winter tool and something to get me out when I really can't be bothered getting the MTB muddy day after day after day. I knew in advance it wouldn't by my riding of choice, but it's a necessary evil. It did though open my eyes to how complacent I've become.
I don't think it's an age thing no, but there's reports that things deteriorate over a certain age, but no, I don't think it's an issue.

My weight has slipped up over time recently with injury and also with a France holiday, however I'm almost back down to my 'usual' weight again now after a couple of weeks of 5-2 diet. But that's still 15st 0 when I get there, which won't help, so targeting 14st 7 to get down to.

Part of my goals is to get myself fitter for Enduro stuff, I'm hoping when I do my first Enduro in a couple of weeks it's something that captivates me and shocks me into realising how much lighter/fitter I want and need to be to progress. But mostly the desire is a complete overall fitness desire that I've let slip and want to get back to where I feel I could/should be.

Didn't read all the responses above so sorry if it's already been said.

I found that due to time constraints I was getting out on my bike less and less. When I did I was pissed off by my lack of fitness which lessened my enthusiasm for the next trip. See where this was going?

I joined a gym. Pure Gym to be exact. Much cheapness and open 24 /7. No excuse for not going. Ever.

Since doing this my fitness has gone right back up. A combination of cross trainer, Concept II rowing machine, exercise bike and spinning. Also throw in some weights. Training sessions last between 1 and 2 hours and I go 5 times a week. Feel much better about myself and when I do get the time to go out on my bike I really enjoy it!

Result.

Crack on I say, don't forget the rest, looks to me like you are doing a bit too much, but then I'm not you..

Resting is a real point of contention for me...and a complete unknown quantity. I don't know what's classed as good rest, bad rest etc.

Most weeks I do gym (spin or cycle, 45min/1 hour per day on Mon/Tue/Wed. I then usually have 1 ride on the next 3 days, Usually Friday, again 1 hour-1.20 outdoors. Then Sunday at the moment is Road, 2 hours-2.30.

So I guess I'm regularly on a 5 day week.

It's only the last few weeks though that the 5 has been 5 'proper' days, as stated earlier, I've been cruising too much in training, so that's a bit more now.

sounds like your training sessions are all similar length and intensity. Try mixing it up a little, longer sessions - shorter. I'd drop one of the one hour rides and do a 2 the next day. You get a rest plus a different length of exercise. Your body has adapted to the regular exercise its receiving and has just levelled out. Not reaching your max HR normally means your a bit tired rather than lacking exercise

@weeksy you are doing a stack more work than most of us. As we all know you can improve the quality of that work with planning and a proper programme, you have the monitor to record your activity and also this is what Strava/Endomondo are really meant for, logging workouts.

I hope you don't mind me saying but with that amount of workout each week (ie calorie burn) if you want to make a decent step forward in performance and weight loss you need to look closely at your diet.

Pawsy,
Realistically the times can't change massively, gym is at work time, so 1 hour or so.... Thurs/Fri is WFH but lunch hour, so again 1 hour or so... then Sat or Sun I have a 6 year old and a mum who needs looking after, so 2 hours ish there.

Jambalaya...
Agree 100% mate... it's my main weakness in life/training... diet... I'm rubbish with/at it... I'd love to say "i'll work on that and change" but in all honesty, I don't believe I will change massively.

And on that note.... I'm heading down for another torture session on the spin bike 🙂 Back in an hour... or so.

Seems I was a little premature with this thread.

Weight is coming down, today I beat my PR's on every sector apart from 1. (But in my defence it was wet today). Whilst I still can't get close to a couple of mates times, it's quite clear I'm not quite as far off my own times as I first perceived. Today I was able to climb 3 decent hills completely out of the saddle, which impressed myself.
OK, so I'm only 300/900 on average on Strava... but 300 ain't bad. 🙂

Just looking at the heart rate stats from today. My average was 144bpm, which isn't bad for outdoor.

The overall pace on the ride was 13.6mph, which considering it was 100% off-road I'm pretty bloody pleased with. Pace compared to Thurs when I was out on the wifes bike was good and quicker. Althoguh at times I was deffo pushing harder than the other day. The difference was only 10s on some sections, but up to a minute on a few others. But I guess that all comparisons are unfair unless comparing like for like, bike for bike, sunny for sunny etc.

I struggle next with the what's making me slower. All of my PB's on the sections I know well are from August 2013. That's when I was out on the Spearfish. Was the Spearfish that much quicker XC wise than the Meta ?
For example, today on a climb, only 0.7km but one I've ridden 100+ times easy, today 2mins 34, my PB from Aug13 is 2mins17.
Longer one, today was 13mins 12s, Aug13 was 12mins 23s.

I was on strava 3/56 on a section.... which I have to be happy with, especially considering there's a few locals I ride with a chunk behind me.

That's a lot of time to make up considering how hard I was riding today. !