It’s good to convict the gamekeeper in these cases but the big hammer should come down on the estate owners. I’m talking big fines that they’d actually feel in the bank balance & not jus a few bob. It would make them more selective on who they employ.
This is the exact reason why licensing is such a good step.
… and why the moor owners are so against it.
But I can’t see either the Tories or the SNP leaping to act.
The Tories won't do anything about it, theyr'e all for shooting & screw the bycatch. Nobs.
I’ve always hated hare shoots. Make me sick.
Not a problem around these parts, we have blokes with long dogs turn up after dark for a bit of harmless ’sport’...
Hares are still around, fortunately, I saw four across a field where they’re often seen, a week or so back, late in the afternoon. The bastards with long dogs who course with them is a difficult problem to fix, though.
The reason so many are shot is because coarsing is banned.
Go figure.
Hare populations go through the roof on agricultural land round here so are shot in large numbers
That would largely be due to a lack of natural predators - foxes, raptors etc?
Hare populations go through the roof on agricultural land round here so are shot in large numbers
Cos hares a such a nuisance, eating all those crops, digging holes (they don't). It's just a case of shooters having targets.
That would largely be due to a lack of natural predators – foxes, raptors etc?
Definately, because theyr'e persecuted by gamekeepers/landowners.
Just to point out. Hares cause massive crop damage on arable. Land.
You can rant about shooter all day but pest control is required.
I usd to carry it out with lurchers while I was doing rabbits but as I can't they now get shot.
Every single farmer I shoot for wants every hare seen shot.
I don't shoot hares. Never have, never will.
It would make them more selective on who they employ.
I think they are already just not in the sense you are hoping for.
Estate next to me lost a worker today in a tragic accident whilst burning heather.
Poor guys clothes caught fire. Dangerous work.
Keen mountain biker and leaves 3 kids.
Awful news.
Just to point out. Hares cause massive crop damage on arable. Land.
Really? citation please because these are mountain hares!
I'm not talking about mountain hares I'm talking about brown hares. (I said arable land) Most hare drives are for the latter.
That's terrible news about the fire 🙁
And the slaughter of hares I am objecting to are the mountain hares. the discussion was of mountain hares.
Whatever. Be easier if you simply ignored everything I type.
The guys clothes caught fire. I don't know if they use an accelerant?
Awful way to go. Another worker was burned as well.
I'm sure I've met the guy a few times through shooting.
I believe they usually use an accelerant. Awful way to go.
Whatever. Be easier if you simply ignored everything I type.
I prefer to call you out for nonsense and deflection - and agree with yo when you are right.
Poor timing from me - I hadn't seen the comment on hares until you bumped the thread and that I apologise for
Whether brown hares cause crop damage is moot, but it’s closed season for hunting them without a license from 1st February and I’m seeing plenty of evidence of dead hares locally. Most crops grown here are fodder crops. I did see a hen harrier a couple of times in our glen a week ago, but that seems to have cleared off. I only have to walk past the corpses of rabbits lying on the verges for weeks on end to know there are few predators and it’s a very sterile environment. I saw foxes daily in Hampshire but have never seen one here.
The hen Harrier will have been killed. same as any other bird of prey they can kill on or near a grouse moor.
Whatever. Be easier if you simply ignored everything I type.
Would it be easy for you to provide citations for a number of claims you have made on this thread?
I've asked previously but assume you missed it.
No I never missed it.
I won't be doing it though. Loads of "facts" here are lifted from anti shooting activists websites and taken as gospel.
If I repeat information from a shooting body website it's rubbished as lies.
So, no. Either believe me or don't I'm not worried either way. It's a discussion forum. I'm talking from experience, if I can't back that up to your satisfaction it's hardly the end of my world.
Similarly I know that "Raptor protection" outfits like the one sited earlier are not to be trusted.
More assertions without evidence
You claimed that the RSPB and other groups fabricated evidence and refused to back up that assertion. Presumably because there is no evidence
so why is the Raptor protection outfit ( which one?) not to be trusted and what evidence do you have?
your problem here is that all the assertions from the conservation side ( bar the lunatic fringe) are actually well backed up by facts
If yo make assertions without evidence as yo have done you will be called out on it.
But tbh I'm not bothered. Once I realised I was being called out by someone who struggled to comprehend information laid out in front of them, it became moot.
It's the internet. Don't sweat it.
You have not laid out any information giving any evidence that the RSPB or any other similar outfit have been fabricating evidence. I think its clear you have none just the usual hysterical false accusations.
If you had any evidence you would show it
What would be the point ? You refuse to admit that you don't understand what you are reading.
As I said, Not worried what your opinion is really so crack on.
Or just ignore me and save yourself the grief.
Oh I do understand much more than you think and am quite happy to ask for clarification if I do not
so where is the evidence you have? I will examine it with an open mind.
My brother lives in the Highlands. His land backs on to a big estate that runs a lot of shooting.
Recently one of the guys who works for him came running to say someone had shot a bird on his land. He ran down to the location and saw a masked man, with a shotgun under his arm retrieving what looked like a dead Goshawk. When the bloke saw him, he ran off towards the fence and climbed over on to he adjacent estate. My brother gave chase but the culprit climbed on to a quad and roared off over the fields. Also there was a Landrover, decked out in the livery of said estate, with two masked men in it. This also drove off and its reg plate wasn't visible.
He did report it but the lack of identifying evidence meant it went nowhere.
He's previously found an injured Goshawk on his land with pellet wounds that the RSPB rescued.
If I repeat information from a shooting body website it’s rubbished as lies.
Then provide information that doesn’t come from a shooting body.
Once I realised I was being called out by someone who struggled to comprehend information laid out in front of them, it became moot.
What information? All I’ve seen is an unsubstantiated opinion.
A bit like namastebuzz’s post. I personally don’t know if it’s true or not. And won’t until I see some sort of credible 3rd party verification. And I don’t include Raptor Persecution campaigners as credible 3rd parties.
Hopefully the link will work, statement about Brewdog’s intentions for the estate they just bought👍
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lost-forest-james-watt
Good stuff from brewdog. I hope they get it right.
I'd like to see them join the Cairngorms Connect project rather than go it alone. The objectives are very similar. Some of their plans might fall foul of the CNPA planning folk but that'll come out in the wash.
And I don’t include Raptor Persecution campaigners as credible 3rd parties.
the raptor persecution blog only uses verifiable evidence. reports from the police, RSPB, SWT etc.
they are very credible. for example:
https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2021/04/01/gun-banned-poisons-dead-birds-of-prey-seized-in-third-multi-agency-raid-in-england/?fbclid=IwAR2oQA3Rhn3CS1w7cRwWM6QpCda_-r1-Jx2FTg3N9IhdKPPRerC5uW8Wgag
TJ, I mean I wouldn’t take Raptor Persecution alone on their word. If I’m able to find additional verification then great. More so from the police reports than any other option.
Whereas a report only found on a shooting site, with nothing at all to support remains, to me, an unsubstantiated claim. And the longer those claims go unproven the more (I’ll be generous here) dubious those claims become.
The awesome weather and blue skies of the last few days totally spoilt but the rising plumes of muirburn smoke on the Glenlivet, Glenfiddich and Glenrinnes Estates - they really don’t give a shit.
Fairy snuff piemonster. Judge both sides by the same standards. its obvious which side is lying tho 🙂
On the Brewdog thing, I know this is an unpopular idea, but I'd rather see them build a brewery and bottling/distribution plant on Speyside than another hotel. We need to get away from the idea that the Highlands are only good for tourism. That diversification of employment opportunities would go a long way to providing an alternative to the hegemony of the large "sporting" estates.
I would agree with you. I hope they get this right but I have the impression they are well meaning but a bit daft
Oh dear, so sad/too bad. A golden Eagle seemed to have eaten something it disagreed with on the Invercauld estate last month. Bloody townies trying to discredit the guardians of the countryside by dumping carcasses on their estates!
HSE will hopefully hammer the estate that poor guy died working on, sounds very much like flameproof equipment and PPE were absent, tragically. 🙁
Is Brads just a troll? From what I can see he’s complaining about accuracy of info but is yet to provide any evidence to counter the claims he’s unhappy about.
Oh dear, so sad/too bad. A golden Eagle seemed to have eaten something it disagreed with on the Invercauld estate last month. Bloody townies trying to discredit the guardians of the countryside by dumping carcasses on their estates!
I have published SGA's multiple choice press release below:
Where is the evidence?
It was probably the RSPB
Townies don't understand
We make millions for the local economy and without us all wildlife will die, economies will die and the countryside will die
It wouldn't have happened if we could burn more heather
It was Chris Packham
My god they hate Packham don't they?!
Is Brads just a troll? From what I can see he’s complaining about accuracy of info but is yet to provide any evidence to counter the claims he’s unhappy about.
Just steeped in the huntin' shootin' fishin' world. I have never seen anything credible about major players on the conservation side being underhand let alone anything more serious.
There is no doubt at all that raptors are deliberately killed by the dozen on grouse moors all over Scotland.
@Pauly
Read the thread, I'm not trolling , but nice effort of it yourself.
