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Grouse moor licenci...
 

Grouse moor licencing, Scotland.

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You cannot hide from the fact that grouse moors routinely do this

They have got more sneaky about it in recent years due to the number of inconvenient tags. Might be a f u to the National Trust (whose land it was found on) since the NT has started to grow a backbone.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 10:38 am
 tomd
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Found a freshly dead buzzard beside our house a couple of days ago. Most likely a victim of the recent hard weather and lack of food but reported it to DEFRA and it was actually collected and taken away for inspection the next day. Apparently they are interested in any reports of dead birds or preys, swans etc for the purposes of monitoring bird flu and poisoning etc. We're fairly close to grouse moor so you never know what they're up to.

I was pleasantly surprised so if you do see any dead birds or whatever definitely worth reporting it.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 10:46 am
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Couldn’t see the Angus glens for smoke at the weekend because of the Moor burn. Anybody see the disgusting exchanges between the pres of the Scottish gamekeepers association and his acolytes on their forum? Somebody shared it on the Scottish rewilding page on Facebook.

I've tried engaging on SGA facebook but they just delete your comments or block you. I have asked genuine questions, not been overly challenging and they just can't handle it. They are like Trump supporters in their blind faith of their version of the truth whilst being victims of the media. Thankfully they are truly appalling at organising constructive defence of their actions so, they will in time, undo their own industry through their ineptitude.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 10:48 am
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But the RSPB did it, or Chris Packham

Well this was obviously a set up by the RSPB.....
https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/investigations/posts/more-dark-secrets-in-north-yorkshire

Don't know for sure but I'll wager the gamekeeper in question was the gobshite who had a go at me when I was on The Moresdale Road one Saturday. The police had a word with him about hat incident as well.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 1:31 pm
 Spin
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They are like Trump supporters in their blind faith of their version of the truth

Or maybe that response springs from the fact that they know they can offer no reasonable defence of some of the practices? So all they can do is bluster and shut down debate. Which is also Trump like.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 1:45 pm
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A lot of them have recently appeared on pretty much every outdoor page I am on. As soon as somebody dares to mention anything about negative land use they are on it mob handed. Almost like it is planned....


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 3:01 pm
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The thing that really amuses me is that if they are the good landowners they claim to be then they have nothing to fear from licensing!

In fact it would protect them from all the false accusations they claim because they would be able to point to the license and say - we are operating correctly


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 3:09 pm
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TJ, of course you are right. But remember licensing is the start of a plan to destroy their way of life and, in turn ruin the countryside. It is just the first nail in the coffin of the entire countryside. Unless they can carry on doing what they are doing without any regulation, thousands of jobs will be lost, millions of ££'s will be lost to the economy and the countryside will be a barren wasteland devoid of all life.

It kind of makes you wonder how wildlife even survives in places without kindly gamekeepers helping to manage things for them.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 3:21 pm
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I know, imagine being a hare...out in the cold eating nothing but bland grass and always terrified of raptors. Add in the constant irritation from ticks and I would be practically begging a guardian of the countryside to put me out of my misery.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 3:27 pm
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I know, imagine being a hare

Poor things must be so upset at the new rules which came in on the 1st of March. Still at least those nice guardians of the countryside are offering to relocate them from grouse moors to help them repopulate other areas.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 11:19 pm
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I seem to remember reading that estates had been extremely busy with regards to hares since the start of last year.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 11:22 pm
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And with killing raptors. Killings are massively up this year but some good news - there was a mass poisoning early in lockdown and there are multiple prosecutions ongoing from it.


 
Posted : 02/03/2021 11:25 pm
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Burning totally spoilt the fine spring weather the past few days here on Speyside - Glenlivet, Glenfiddich estates all at it, leaving a brown layer of smog across the skies. The cold snap has had an impact on the local rabbit and hare population but there is nothing feeding on the carrion - I haven’t seen a fox here in 10 months.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 7:20 am
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I have some lovely photos of smoke inversion taken yesterday from the Cairngorms. In this still, high pressure air it just hangs in the glens.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 8:18 am
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Same here in Angus, as referred to above; smog hanging across Strathmore all through Sunday & Monday from Muirburn in the glens and even on the Sidlaws. A low, brown/yellow haze sunk into the cold air and no significant breeze. This must be as bad for asthma folk as city smog & fumes; we see bluster in the press about woodburning stoves, but why so little criticism of the vast amount of particulate pollution produced by burning thousands of acres of heather and peat annually?


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 8:27 am
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I have some lovely photos of smoke inversion taken yesterday from the Cairngorms. In this still, high pressure air it just hangs in the glens

Very noticeable yesterday looking across from Tromie to the Monaliadh.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 8:53 am
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Is a H&S action a feasible way to prevent estates burning the moors? After all they wouldn't be allowed to pour poison into a stream that fed a water supply.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 8:54 am
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I imagine the argument is that these windless days are when burning is "safe". Which really should open up a bigger question.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 9:23 am
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Highlandman, purely depends on the people doing it. See also speed of insurance payments after the deeside flooding a few years ago.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 9:25 am
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This should be the last year of this as muirburn is going to be included in the licensing and my guess is the estates have been burning huge areas knowing that in future they will not be able to do so. Same as they have done with killing hares.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 10:07 am
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'S'alright, we can just blame those awful right to roam ramblers and their wild camping fires, plus mountain bikers dropping cigarettes on the hills. It wusnae us that started the fires, we just have to go and help them spread, sorry, beat them out..'


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 11:21 am
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we see bluster in the press about woodburning stoves, but why so little criticism of the vast amount of particulate pollution produced by burning thousands of acres of heather and peat annually

I was pondering exactly this whilst out walking on Ben Rinnes the other night where you could clearly see the smog hanging about.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 11:58 am
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On a slightly different note, when I was learning to fly the farmer with the field at the end of the runway thought it would be a good idea to burn his stubble with a circuit full of learners. A little bit hairy landing when you can't see properly and you've got updrafts from the burning on short finals.

Thankfully stubble burning is now banned, glad to hear that muirburn is going too.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 12:08 pm
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Muirburn is still going to be allowed IIRC just far more controlled in extent and timings. Details are not yet available

It always amuses me that in the book "kidnapped" they protagonists hide in the heather in glencoe. You couldn't do that now as its never allowed to grow to its full height. As a kid in yorkshire I remember hiding in heather that must have been over 2 ft high. I cannot remember seeing any that high since


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 12:14 pm
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TJ;I did heather as one of my talks for the ML. Shepherds used to cut a circular brake in the heather and use it as a shep pen. And the shipyards used to damp under industrial presses with it.


 
Posted : 03/03/2021 7:08 pm
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It’s good to know the future of the industry is in eloquent, influential and informed hands

The SGA had their AGM last week, the Chairs speech included gems like this:

Government interference generally in rural life has not helped sustain community. The drink driving limits. It’s great in the city, trains, buses and taxis everywhere. Try finding a bus or taxi in the rural areas where most of us live and work. This policy has seriously affected social cohesion in the countryside, along with rural pubs having to close.

And he complains that politicians don’t want to engage with them!

Self destruct mode fully engaged.


 
Posted : 08/03/2021 9:18 pm
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The SGA had their AGM last week, the Chairs speech included gems like this:

For those who are curious a transcript is here
It really is a masterpiece although the drink drive is a particular highlight.

Sadly on the broader grouse moor issue the post immediately prior to that is the SNP rural cabinet secretary seeming to have believed one of their propaganda videos.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 6:53 pm
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And again FFS!

It is a good example of just how hard it is to prosecute these sort of crimes and also an example of where licensing could be effective.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 6:56 pm
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that Packham fellow is a busy chap making all this up and faking it


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 7:13 pm
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Walking today on part of the Glenlivet Estate just outside Tomintoul and there were a number of freshly shot brown hare within a short distance. The closed season is from 1st February - there's no way those carcasses are 5 weeks old.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 7:31 pm
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Walking today on part of the Glenlivet Estate just outside Tomintoul and there were a number of freshly shot brown hare within a short distance. The closed season is from 1st February – there’s no way those carcasses are 5 weeks old.

Why oh why would anyone kill hares & not use them as food? I have no problem with shooting for food but it's persecuting other wildlife & killing for no reason that boils my water.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 8:05 pm
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Why oh why would anyone kill hares & not use them as food

Its claimed they can pass diseases on to the grouse and hence they have to go.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 8:40 pm
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It’s all very well saving hares carry ticks and disease that harm the grouse, but there are barely any grouse - you have to go a long way up onto the moors to find any and they are only in small numbers. You won’t find grouse 1km from Tomintoul.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 9:09 pm
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I've always hated hare shoots. Make me sick.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 9:12 pm
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dovebiker - report it please. they are a protected species and the cops need to know

the hares are slaughtered because they think they compete with the grouse and give them illnesses. Utter nonsense of course


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 10:18 pm
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It’s all very well saving hares carry ticks and disease that harm the grouse

Dont get me wrong I am no defender of these arseholes. From what I understand the evidence is slim to bugger all supporting the claim. However sadly for some a if it moves shoot it principle seems to apply aside from for their preferred species where it is a "wait until the season opens then shoot it" and a few species which are perceived as nonharmful to the preferred species and so might make good PR.


 
Posted : 09/03/2021 11:34 pm
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Packham gets a death threat 2 years ago and the SGA claim he sent it to himself after their "handwriting expert" said so and get one of their tame sunday papers to publish this absurd claim. this is after SGA members and officers have mounted a long campaign of abuse against him

Local police say the claim is nonsense

desperate stuff indeed


 
Posted : 13/03/2021 7:29 pm
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President of the SGA wished a member who said he intended to shoot Packham the best of luck.


 
Posted : 13/03/2021 7:56 pm
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I've only met two actual gamekeepers, one was mentioned earlier. Both were purebred shitbags so forgive me for tarring them all with the same brush.


 
Posted : 13/03/2021 11:29 pm
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Interestingly all the interactions I have had with gamekeepers ( not many) have been pleasant and polite - even when we rode our bikes thru the middle of a driven shoot we were just asked nicely to go over the brow of the hill to look at our map rather than stop where we were. One ( on a deer shooting estate) even pointed out and otter to us and told us were to go to see Sea Eagles


 
Posted : 13/03/2021 11:38 pm
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The Sunday times article ( I referred to above) that the SGA fed their dubious analysis to the paper for has backfired spectacularly with the ST having commissioned their own expert who said it was not Packhams writing and included police quote that the SGAs claim is bogus

tee hee


 
Posted : 14/03/2021 11:25 am
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The only gamekeeper I ever knew personally had his kids in my local school. Nice as ninepence to your face & could talk about conservation & animal welfare all day long. Later convicted of possession of a massive amount of carbofuran.

Sorry, Daily Record article but it was the first link to come up, but there are plenty of others Dean Barr Conviction.


 
Posted : 14/03/2021 11:33 am
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It's good to convict the gamekeeper in these cases but the big hammer should come down on the estate owners. I'm talking big fines that they'd actually feel in the bank balance & not jus a few bob. It would make them more selective on who they employ.


 
Posted : 14/03/2021 8:11 pm
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