Forum menu
But we’ve already explored the “things made by ICI” angle with little conclusion.
Yes, then you misquoted so I clarified
Ah, now we’re getting somewhere. Which of these dictionary meanings are you using consistently? That’d be really helpful to know.
n any case, we’re back to the same argument, you’re asking us to define your terms. “Types” of chemicals is nonsensical in this context. Organic vs inorganic? Man-made vs naturally occurring? Toxic vs non-toxic? FDA-approved or not? MHRA-approved or not? Something else?
No, I've made it absolutely clear how am I using the word. I'm asking what word you would prefer that would make it possible for you to comprehend.
My hamburger was man-made, and chemical, according to some. It was also artificial because it doesn't occur in nature, but also natural because the processes used to produce it do occur in nature
As I said previously, everything is toxic to something or someone, it's only a question of dose.
So why don't you tell me what chemicals you try to avoid and what group noun you refer to them by?
I thought you just said your hamburger was chemical-free?
Using my definition of chemical, the one I contend is common usage, it was. According to the but-the-whole-world-is-chemicals crew, it wasn't.
So what types of chemicals might you find in brake cleaner that also crop up in food?
Types - that is the word we are trying to establish.
Or did you mean specific ones?
Or did you mean (for illustrative purposes and non-exhaustive) e.g. neurotoxins, carcinogens etc.)
That seems highly unlikely. No salt in it, was there?
There was fat, protein, minerals, all the things we need to stay alive. If you don't take in any salt you won't be long for this world.
The third one down in my dictionary. Yours may be different.
I wouldn’t choose any one of those over the other. Would you? Why?
Yes, because.
How is a sausage roll “processed” whereas the other things you list there aren’t?
Depends. What's your definition of processed?
Is your argument simply that “highly processed” = bad? That would make sense, but things like cornflakes and Greek yoghurt are highly processed, should we be avoiding those?
Not my argument or my contention. Ask any one who works around or is concerned about nutrition and the like. Never heard the advice about only shopping around the edges of a food shop?
Are cornflakes and Greek yoghurt highly processed? What's your definition of processed?
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Oh, you’re vegetarian? (and we’re away…)
why not just reply 'Chilli'? and avoid all the nonsense?
ive not eaten meat for a year now but i dont consider myself vegetarian. the treatment of animals is one thing but i personally stopped eating meat in an attempt to cut out pies, pasties and sausage rolls which were my biggest vice! but also fast food, takeaways and processed meats etc. always said if i fancy a bacon butty then ill just have a bacon butty. but so far i haven't caved in and now i never fancy a a bacon butty.
never realised how good a plain old margherita pizza was before! always used to load it up with all kinds of shite - and i swear the veggie versions of chilli and bolegnese we make now is much nicer than the old fleshy stuff.
This entire discussion is:
"I don't eat some things."
What things?
"you tell me."
You're the one throwing around terms like "chemicals" and "processed." It doesn't matter one jot how I (or anyone else) define those terms, what's relevant is how you do.
why don’t you tell me what chemicals you try to avoid
I don't, generally. I avoid meat, because I'm vegetarian, and cheese, because I'm allergic.
The third one down in my dictionary.
Now you're just being obtuse. Why not type that out and avoid all this silliness?
why not just reply ‘Chilli’? and avoid all the nonsense?
That's a very good point, actually.
Even then though, it's not always easy. I went out for a curry with work a little while back, when the food turned up my then-boss suddenly went "where's your meat?" and then I had about eight of them going at it for 20 minutes.
Anyway, I had two non-Greggs carnivorous sausage rolls last night.
Murdered with indigestion for the rest of the night.
I feel vindicated somehow.
I went out for a curry with work a little while back, when the food turned up my then-boss suddenly went “where’s your meat?” and then I had about eight of them going at it for 20 minutes.
No pudding for you.
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat?
You....yes, you.... behind the bike sheds,.... stand still, laddie!
Glad you enjoyed the pasty Cougar, don’t blame me for your shortened life tho! If it has non-organic soy in the mince then likelihood is the soy protein will have been processed using hexane. Also used in brake fluid. On rat feeding studies, a person would have to consume roughly 1.4 million veggie burgers a day to approach the levels at which rats start to show neurological problems. And that is assuming that the hexane residue would not evaporate upon cooking. When it comes to soy oil, the highest concentration that has been found is 0.13 milligrams per kg, which means that about 150 litres would have to be consumed to reach the 6 milligrams per day that the U.S. Environmental Agency has determined to be the dose where possible problems may begin to arise. Assuming the pasty has about (IME) half the amount of TVP etc as a burger just be careful not to consume over 3 million of those bad boys a day, otherwise you may get some tingling or something. IANAD etc.
About 2/3rds of animal feed is non-organic soy meal, which is also mostly processed using hexane. Globally, 98 percent of soybean meal produced is used as animal feed, you know, for meat-eaters. Sometimes worth remembering when the inevitable bullshit bingo begins (the beguine) 😉
Quorn being a fungi, I’d assume that the Greggs meat sossies have either the same or more completely safe soy in them. Could be wrong. Ask an expert.
🤣
"On a person would have to consume roughly 1.4 million veggie burgers a day to approach the levels at which rats start to show neurological problems."
I am up for a challenge....
*erratum ‘brake cleaner’.
Which reminds me, one day a few years ago in the kitchen as I was spraying the beast, Mrs MR intimated that she ‘liked the scent of GT85’
I liked this development very much so will sheepishly admit to having regularly gotten the spray ’accidentally’ on my skin and clothing, you know, when fettling the old bike. Steady.
Then today this chemical holocaustsoupthing thread got me all up in a paranoid prudeypants, so I looked GT85 up:
Safety data sheet according to Regulation (EC) No 1907/2006, Annex II Revision date / version: 10.07.2015 / 0002
Replacing version dated / version: 06.11.2014 / 0001
Valid from: 10.07.2015
PDF print date: 11.08.2015 GT85TM - [Aerosol]4.1 Description of first aid measures
Inhalation
Remove person from danger area.
Supply person with fresh air and consult doctor according to symptoms.
If the person is unconscious, place in a stable side position and consult a doctor.
Skin contact
Remove polluted, soaked clothing immediately, wash thoroughly with plenty of water and soap, in case of irritation of the skin (flare), consult a doctor.
What would STW do? Immediately burn my undercrackers with fire and drive to ER, or wait a fortnight for locum GP? What if I’m already ‘unconscious’? What if we’re both ‘unconscious’? wtf
This could rapidly turn into the Veet for Men review thread on Amazon - superb!
Definitely flame, its the only way to be sure...
one day a few years ago in the kitchen as I was spraying the beast,
Shouldn't you keep that sort of activity in the bedroom?
Shouldn’t you keep that sort of activity in the bedroom?
No, that’s where I keep the new bike. Wait, that’s not correct. Since that 1975 EUphemixuposis scare I’ve not been 100% correct. IIRC the trouble began with a rogue shipment of ‘Big D’ nuts. Apparently a long-running batch of nut-packaging cards were printed with foreign DDTees- and if you got your hands on them too often it could affect speech and short-term memory.
And short-term memory.
Try the salmon.
eg doughnuts
What on earth do you make then with? Vegan Yorkshires don’t work*
Something reminded me of this comment - was getting a special treat for the weekend then noticed M&S doing vegan pizza and three other (some vegan, some not) items for a tenner, ie dirty fries in béchamel etc, One of the items was a tub of churros with sauce. I love donuts so gave them a guilty whirl.
Gobbed them hot for breakfast. Awesome. Checked the packaging, surprised to discover that they (not the sauce) have no dairy in them. In the oven for 8 mins (my oven is rubbish so more like 15 to get the outside a little crunchy)
Much more donut (ie fairground, hot-in-the-bag-style) than those IMO bland-tasting US style ones (Dunkin, Krispy etc) that to me seem like ‘fake’-tasting bland white bread-cake hybrids). The churros come with cinnamon sugar also. Definitely going to seek out a vegan recipe for these now and then get the frying pan out. If pre-packaged and oven-baked can be like this, then my thinking is that fresh batter fried must be even better.
Quick review (not mine) here
Recipe for a batter using aquafaba:
1 Cup Water
1/4 Cup Butter Alternative
2 Tablespoons Brown Sugar
1 Teaspoon Vanilla
1/2 Teaspoon Salt
1/2 Cup Aquafaba – the Liquid Drained from a Can of Garbanzo Beans (or 2 Eggs)
1 Cup flour or gluten-free flour mix
While I’m at it here (apparently) are some ‘perfect’ vegan Yorkshire puds and (if true) I have to admire the author’s tenacity:
https://avirtualvegan.com/vegan-yorkshire-puddings/
Had my 1st ever vegan *item* (AFAIK) yesterday which was the Greggs 'sausage' roll. Only bought it to see what the fuss was about & also had a beef & veg pasty.
The SR just tasted slightly 'herby' to me & little to get exited about. (The pasty was better but still not the best I've ever had)
TBH, the "fuss" isn't that they're the best thing ever, rather that they exist at all.
Fair play for trying it, mind.
are some ‘perfect’ vegan Yorkshire puds
Hmmm Skeptical man is skeptical.
That said I don't really like Yorkshire puddings, rather make pancakes instead. (but it's oddly wonderful as part of toad in the hole).
TBH, the “fuss” isn’t that they’re the best thing ever, rather that they exist at all.
I'd be interested to see how ethical a lot of the high Street stuff is, as opposed to just not containing any animal product. (if it's actually ethical its a very good thing and worth the fuss, if it's just - as I suspect - bear minimum requirement, it's not a thing worth fussing about compared to the meaty alternative)
I can imagine there's probably a whole bunch of incinerated orangutan and the like behind a greggs "vegan" sausage roll. All fine if you're fine with that but it I can't help feel its a bit like people not liking too see identifiable meat but happily chomping on a burger.
I can imagine there’s probably a whole bunch of incinerated orangutan and the like behind a greggs “vegan” sausage roll.
Must be true then.
Supposedly 100% sustainable palm fat according to their website. Although I’d like to see independent body verify this were I ever to buy them again/regularly (not happening). I asked in the shop but they directed me to the website.
I can’t help feel its a bit like people not liking too see identifiable meat but happily chomping on a burger.
I can’t help feel it’s a bit like you didn’t check before imagining, then from that imagining you go on to further assume that others don’t? Projection? 😉 knowing and having known a number of vegans and veggies including her indoors I can’t help but feel that vegans and veggies are on average more likely to be interested in ethically/sustainably-sourced food than the average run-of-the-mill mass-produced sausage-grabber? I’d be unhappy to be wrong in that assumption, but it is at least partly informed by experience. Offered here not so much as a rebuttal, more as some hope?
product. (if it’s actually ethical its a very good thing and worth the fuss, if it’s just – as I suspect – bear minimum requirement, it’s not a thing worth fussing about compared to the meaty alternative)
That’s rather more of a tricky claim.
Must be true then
Oh I don't mean to suggest it is. Just rather there seems to be a lot of fuss about "no meat" but from where I stand (which isn't exactly a position of significant interest) very little fuss about the ethics of the thing.
I can’t help but feel that vegans and veggies are on average more likely to be interested in ethically/sustainably-sourced food than the average run-of-the-mill mass-produced sausage-grabber?
And I wholly agree, for the most part they are. I'm not sure Gregg's is your average vegan though.* (this is more to do with a distinct distrust of big business to do anything but look after its share price)
*their animal welfare policy isn't bad all things considered.
Just rather there seems to be a lot of fuss about “no meat” but from where I stand (which isn’t exactly a position of significant interest) very little fuss about the ethics of the thing.
Any ‘fuss’ about ethics would likely be met with more eye-rolling, pre-emptive accusations, argumentation and protest than that encountered when a vegan product is simply advertised for consumption. That said, plant-based ‘meat-alternative’ companies such as Impossible Foods are making a big splash on purpose, and their whole ethos is visible in all of their marketing and mission statements/s, right down to the packaging. What else could they do?
When you say ethics it for some reason made me think that
1. The ethics of animal-exploitation are arguably/currently in some ways distinct from
2. the ethics of Global climate change and sustainable food-provision.
‘Vegan’ (ie […] a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment.
and ‘vegan’ (reductive definition of a dietary term, ie food without animal products in the ingredients) are in some ways becoming distinct?
Which of the two (1. and 2.) do you believe is currently having ‘very little fuss made’? And is this lack of ‘fuss’ in question at point of advertising, point of production, or point of purchase/consumption? Sorry if this sounds like a survey Q but I’m pretty interested in this stuff (no shit🤣)
*their animal welfare policy isn’t bad all things considered.
Bold claim. Is it better or worse than their mycoprotein-welfare practice? I half-jest.
Further to Cougar’s Morrison’s pasty review, I since got to try my third pasty and the experience was interesting.
First off - it was sourced from the Bude store, N. Cornwall, so got to test one on a friend/local/lifelong (trad, meat) Cornish pasty-aficionado. A tough subject!
Findings:
- The test-subject/pasty-lover loved it. Went through grief (at it not being meat upon presentation), first-taste, denial, disbelief and then nomnom noises.
- As previously found - slightly under-baked which is perfect for reheating in the oven.
- Slight variation as expected from in-store baked goods. ie this one was a little more graveyfied than other two I’ve had.
- Reheated in oven is the way to go. Have since brushed top of pastry with a little veg oil and or Oatly cream before reheating (for glaze/extra fatstardness) <——Top results.
- I prefer more black pepper and swede but that’s me/down to personal taste and this goes with most pasties I’ve had.
- Pleased to see some gravy-leakage from the pastry. Always attractive. Mmm. Leakage.
To summarise - I find they are an ace, tasty, filling meal as supplied, yet improve to next level/authentic on reheating (until the crust is slightly crisp). Better even than so many meat-filled pasties on taste/texture alone. Sadly all these snacky foods are doing me in, so will have to be firm and wave farewell to pastry-based products for the foreseeable. If (OTOH) you're thin, tuck-in 🙂
PS - Big-up, Mozzers for winning my fat vegan snack for a meatlover challenge. Nothing else comes close IME*
Pics:
*Except samosas. Oh ye gods. Samosas.
.