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2. Of the two, why do you claim that the meat ones make us ‘live longer’ than the vegan ones?
Can you point to where I said that please?
As you are so concerned about soya: The Greggs non-vegan sausage contains soya protein. But the Greggs vegan sausage roll doesn't.
Can you point to where I said that please?
I think I understand where you are confused. When I said I'd eat the meat things instead of vegan fake meat, I meant actual meat things. I assumed you'd got that due to my also saying "I wouldn't touch either with your barge pole, that I'm lucky to have place that makes them fresh. Etc. I also made several references to eating veggies, meat, soya etc in their unprocessed form. I would have thought the totality would make it clear. Particularly the bit about not touching either with your barge pole.
I also believe I'll live longer if I wear my seatbelt, reduce stress, exercise etc
Oh, and wear a helmet.
*Ducks*
As you are so concerned about soya:
Not at all concerned about soya. The tvp, concentrates and isolates I try to avoid. Thanks though. I'll probably still eat the local, freshly made fully cruel meat versions.
I think I understand where you are confused
I’m not ‘confused’ at all. You’re having a laugh and then dodging every ball that gets thrown back to you.
And with that, ‘ahm oot.
Great. How do you think we should differentiate between the different types of chemicals.
By saying what they are rather than just trying to lump things into spurious groups that real world chemicals dont fit into.
"It’s probably less to do with their diets and more due to having to put up with comments like this day in, day out for the last 30 years".
Well if they didn't constantly bang on about their lifestyle choices to all and sundry 24/7 they might not be so unhappy lookkng. Be a vegan by all means, but don't ram it down my throat or make out that you're something special.
Actually you’ve got that backwards. I was pointing out that everyone else insists everything is chemicals.
Fair enough. Maybe it would have been clearer if you used terms you meant rather than ones you think (erroneously) that everyone else means.
I have repeatedly asked others for what term they would to use to differentiate between the different types of chemicals and have not had a response yet. I am always in favour of clarity so I await your input
That's just bizarre. You're asking us to define what you're talking about. You're the only one that can do that.
Then again tests on soy have showed concentrations anywhere from 5ppm to over 50ppm
The allowable concentrations for inhalation are pretty low as these things go, so I would question your ‘large doses’ assertion.
Yeah, I did the same googling yesterday. I can't remember the exact figures (and CBA going back) but it was something like a ton of TVP or over 300,000 burgers IIRC.
Well if they didn’t constantly bang on about their lifestyle choices to all and sundry 24/7 they might not be so unhappy lookkng. Be a vegan by all means, but don’t ram it down my throat or make out that you’re something special.
Oh come off it. How often does that actually happen?
In my entire life, I've met precisely two preachy vegans. Butt-hurt omnivores having a pop for no reason on the other hand, they're practically a daily occurrence. There's at least two on this very thread even, your good self included.
Here's an exercise for you. Use google to search this site, see how many threads you can find about meat which contains unsolicited posts from complaining vegans. Now, do the same with vegetarian threads to find ones that don't contain "yes but bacon" posts.
Yes, I don't doubt that there are a few vegans who make themselves a pain in the ass. But they are a small minority of a small minority, and we hate them as much as you do. See also any other demographic, do you judge all Christians based on an idiot banging on about the rapture in a town centre, or all Muslims because of ISIS?
Fact is, most vegetarians / vegans just want to be left to eat their goddamn lunch in peace without being challenged and cross-examined. We understand it's not for you and you think a meal isn't a meal without a big slice of dead animal at the centre, but I'll let you into a little secret: most of us just don't care what you eat.
Unhappy vegans...
Banging on about it...
Ramming it down my throat...
BINGO!!!!
Timeline for this thread:
(Non-vegan?) OP (Cougar) opens thread with a story and link about an expanded range of vegan products from Greggs, with a joke about Piers Morgan.
*The link mentions Piers Morgan who called Greggs ‘PC-ravaged clowns’ for putting a vegan option on the menu.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’) quickly followed by another commenter making further hilarious joke about vegans being made into sausage rolls etc.
Swifly followed by a ‘fully-cruel’ (in his own words) self-righteous, fully-avowed and longevous meat-eater effectively derailing the whole thread by OTT scaremongering ‘chemical soup/life-threatening’ comments which were met with a few requests for clarification. Some bi-partisan jokes were made about eating/drinking cucumbers.
Fandango danced. An actual chemist peeped in and wisely left.
‘Bacon’ comments, etc. Not sure any actual vegans have commented yet. Can’t blame them tbh. Same as usual.
A few actual food reviews again concluding that these few chain-store ‘vegan’ fast-food bakery items are currently just as meh (and highly-processed) as their animal-sourced counterparts.
Thread effectively ends with another humourless assertion that ‘vegans’ are humourless and ‘always shoving it down our throats’. (See also ‘cyclists’, ‘gays’, ‘Christians’, ‘transvestites’, Baconites etc)
At least the real militants of this thread aren’t irony-deficient. 🥁
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes. Bastards. Seems like I’ll have to actually cook lunch myself.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’)
Point of order Mr. Speaker.
Aforementioned disparaging pun was about sausage rolls in general rather than the vegan variety.
It’s the flaky pastry. It overpowers the Omeprazole something chronic
What's for lunch?
"Veggie chilli."
Oh, you're vegetarian? (and we're away...)
BINGO!!!!
But WHHHYYYY? (because I want to and I can)
How long have you been vegetarian? (Most of my adult life, 30 years maybe)
Oh, I could never be vegetarian (I didn't ask you to be)
Don't you miss bacon butties? (never had one in my life, the smell makes me dry heave)
Yeah, but you wear leather shoes! (I don't eat my shoes)
Do you eat fish? (that well-known vegetable, the tuna)
But we have teeth for cutting meat! (correct, we're highly adaptable omnivores)
Our eyes point forward to hunt prey (when did you last run down a ****ing gazelle?)
Oh, I'd like to be vegetarian, but I like meat too much (sucks to be you, life is such a dichotomy)
Has anyone ever asked you about bacon? (nope, you're absolutely the first person in 30 years to mention it)
Why don't you eat chicken? (why don't you eat kittens?)
My wife's cousin's hairdresser is vegan (umm... cool starry bra?)
So what DO you eat? (exactly the same things you do only without meat, I don't eat cheese either because I'm allergic)
Oh, so you're vegan then! (no)
What about milk / butter / eggs / albatross tears (still not vegan)
So what CAN you eat? (anything I choose to, same as you, except cheese as mentioned)
No, but really, why? (Sigh... OK, I don't like the idea of eating dead flesh, I find it nauseating, and I'm lucky enough to live in a society where I don't have to, so I don't)
But it's so tasty! (I'll take your word for it, so's my chilli)
Where do you get protein from? (burgers, sausages, mince, chickpeas, nuts, beans, rice...)
So you eat things that look like meat, you might as well eat meat (by that logic, you eat things that look like Quorn, you might as well eat Quorn)
I bet you've swallowed loads of insects! (probably, but not on a sandwich)
What about bacon? (Jesus H Christ, seriously, what is it with you and bacon?)
God, you vegetarians are so tetchy. (my gorram lunch is cold and I've got five minutes left to eat it now)
... Just another typical lunchtime at the office. But yeah, those damned preachy vegans, hey?
Zanelad; so just to clarify; you have come on a thread about Vegan food to complain about Vegans complaining.
First response is disparaging yet hilarious pun (‘reflux’)
To be fair, I thought that was pretty funny.
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes.
I still hold that they're missing a trick not calling them Quornish Pasties.
That reminds me actually. This week's The Allusionist podcast is on this exact subject, language used for meat-free foods (tofurky, chilli-non-carne etc). I've not listened to it yet but it sounds interesting (and TBH it's a fascinating series generally and I'd recommend it to anyone who has a passing interest in words and etymology).
Aforementioned disparaging pun was about sausage rolls in general rather than the vegan variety.
Clarified and noted. As you were.
Omeprazole
- The chosen prophylactic for ‘Proper British Food’
‘Oi, Brussels, you can KEEP yer sprouts, get a proper sausage roll upyer!’
Just to bring us back to the Greggs vegan sausage roll, I find that they're OK hot, but pretty meh cold. The cruelty-max ecological nightmare health bomb versions are better cold, due to the extra greasy goodness. If they could get some more greach into the vegan shortening and filling, they'd be perfect.
I have the same issue with the vegan aloo gobi rolls we get from our local farm shop, the vegan shortening is very dry, so the pastry is very dry and sticks to stuff in the oven.
But the Morrisons Corn-ish vegan pasties are still selling like hot cakes. Bastards. Seems like I’ll have to actually cook lunch myself.
Are they better than the sausage rolls? They looked significantly less appetising last night, hence my plumping for the sausage roll. (that and the most appetising looking things weren't in any way vegan so wouldn't have fit the thread.)
have the same issue with the vegan aloo gobi rolls we get from our local farm shop, the vegan shortening is very dry, so the pastry is very dry and sticks to stuff in the oven.
This is one of the reasons why 90% of the time I opt for a veg samosa (or two) with veg ghee. vs a sos roll of any type - a samosa IMO is a tastier and ‘cleaner’ sensation while still being satisfyingly moist and greasy.
Are they better than the sausage rolls?
Morrisons vegan pasties - they are satisfyingly greasy and pastry is almost identical to the meat ones (having eaten both)
A few reviews here
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/food-and-drink/morrisons-vegan-cornish-pasty-taste-test/
I somewhat broadly agree with those reviews and also prefer a bit more black pepper. But like I said earlier, having thrown a few on the table at a recent party there were meaties, veggies and vegans all smashing them in and claiming disbelief at the goodness. Plenty swede, potato, onion and a bit of mince. Greasy fat thick pastry. Typical Morrisons in every way. I’m a pasty snob (Tasty Pasties, Bude, Cornwall if anyone cares, oh and that little place in Camelford, you know it if you know it, and forget Pengenna’s) so can only rate the Mozzers imitations on the ‘supermarket scran’ scale, and on that scale it’s IMO better than a Ginsters.
Buy one and whack it in the oven until properly reheated then let me know what you think? But ... more black pepper pls, Morrisons.
I look forward to comparing proper ‘home-made’ yet store-bought vegan options of meat-versions once people like Impossible foods etc get up to scale and down in price. Supermarket ready-cooked fodder is...so...shit, really. IMO we are many/most of us conforming and confirming to the lowest of expectations with quantity over quality and addiction/convenience over every other consideration. /soapbox. In my face
Right, you bastard. I'm off to Morrison's, BBIAB.
M8...no...wait...
**Safeway veg samosa**
... bah, too late
By saying what they are rather than just trying to lump things into spurious groups that real world chemicals dont fit into.
Don't say that to a chemist. Classifying things is a fundamental part of understanding the world.
Or you could call food food and chemicals chemicals, which is what the world does.
You are having the same trouble as most people. Its not an easy thing to do. Seems like you are ducking the question too.
You’re asking us to define what you’re talking about. You’re the only one that can do that.
You and I both know what I'm talking about, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make counterpoints.
I am perfectly content with using the word "chemical" in sense that I do. It works. However, there are those here, including yourself, for whom "chemical" is everything, except energy. So I'm asking you what term you would like me to use that makes it clear for you. None of the alternatives I can think of are a)accurate or b)true. So not going to clarify. You suggested I say things made by ICI, but that doesn't meet either a or b.
So what word would you prefer, for clarity?
Swifly followed by a ‘fully-cruel’ (in his own words)m........meat-eater
That a redundancy, innit?
I thought you might be irony deficient what with the lack of chemical free red meat.
I thought you were oot?
Yeah, I did the same googling yesterday. I can’t remember the exact figures (and CBA going back) but it was something like a ton of TVP or over 300,000 burgers IIRC.
I looked in a book. I like the old school sometimes. Yours came from a study by the Soy institute. Mine was by a researcher at Cornell, I think cba going to check.
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Me too! Fully and artificially processed in my own kitchen.
Tonight I will be back to a fully cruel omnivore though.
Omeprazole
Totally OT but why can’t they make it taste better. Twice a day I have to try and get my two year old daughter to take 10ml. Getting her to open her mouth takes a lot of coaxing and then she spits it out. **** you Omeprazole!
On a more related note the best pie I’ve had (from Lord of the Pies in Macclesfield) was a vegan one.
Don’t say that to a chemist. Classifying things is a fundamental part of understanding the world.
Yesterday you made a lengthy post about your chemical engineering friend calling everything chemicals. I wish you'd at least be consistently vague.
You and I both know what I’m talking about
I'm afraid I genuinely haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. That's the problem.
I am perfectly content with using the word “chemical” in sense that I do.
...
So what word would you prefer, for clarity?
I am perfectly content with using the word “flangewibbler” in sense that I do. It's not my fault if you don't understand it. What word would you suggest I use instead?
You've picked a word, attached some arbitrary meaning to it which only exists in your head and appears to change every time you post, and now you expect us to try and guess what you mean so that we can tell you how to explain it. How the **** are we supposed to do that?
Look, I'm really not trying to be awkward, honest. But you've made a post talking about "chemicals" with no qualification of what you mean. You evidently don't mean ALL chemicals, otherwise you'd be dead by now. But what chemicals you DO mean, who knows.
M8…no…wait…
**Safeway veg samosa**
… bah, too late
Too late indeed, but mission accomplished. I don't think there's a Safeway anywhere near me, aren't they a Southern chain?
Not sure any actual vegans have commented yet.
Either you're not paying attention, or I need to up my banging-on-about-it-and-ramming-it-down-your-throat-24/7 game...
Or maybe
bob_summers
Member
I’m a bit old school, haven’t had animal products for over 25 years
got lost in the chemical semantics
Pastie and sausage roll in the oven.
Hopefully the roll pastry will soften when warm, feels like I could knock nails in with it ATM.
Pastie
Pasty.
A pastie is something completely different.
It's either / or. But I know where you're going with that from when I once started talking about pasties on holiday in the US and got some Spock-grade raised eyebrows.
What’s for lunch?
“Veggie chilli.”
Oh, you’re vegetarian? (and we’re away…)
Funny cause just today I had
"Whats for lunch"
(Its ****ing dinner you moron) veggie Bolognese
"You veggie"
No
"Why do you eat that then"
I like it.
"Isnt that a bit weird"
Not as weired as you you fat salad dodger, I wanted to say.
I like to think I thoroughly confused everyone at the table in a posh restaurant at the weekend by ordering the most vegetarian main course on the menu - halloumi and aubergine bake, bloody gorgeous - to follow my starter of... steak tartare - bland and disappointing.
I can only conclude that people who can't imagine how a dish without meat can be enjoyable are severely lacking in imagination generally.
I do find that thought process to be quite impenetrable. It's like ordering chicken and someone going "don't you eat beef?"
Many years ago, I went out for breakfast with a mate (Dave) and one of his mates. Dave got a veggie sausage sandwich, and to save my typing, the same exchange ^^ happened with his mate. Next time we went there, he ordered a pork sausage sandwich. Each time it was just what he fancied on the day (not because he didn't like the last one).
Vegetarian is a restricted diet, being an omnivore isn't. I appreciate people not wanting to eat say a veggieburger because they don't like them, fair enough, but the notion that you can't because you're not veggie is just ... weird.
That’s bypassed weird and gone straight to ridiculous!
ION
Sausage roll down. Tasty, but the pastry was dreadful. I wonder whether it would have been better if I'd got there at 10am rather than 4pm, it was the last one on the shelf.
Halfway through the pastY. Much better, I'm enjoying this a lot.
... and, inhaled, that was lush. I don't think I'm a fan of vegan pastry particularly but it wasn't too bad and the filling was delicious. Would nom again.
Never actually had a pasty until this summer at Cumbria Steam Gathering. The vegan one was wonderful, hotter than the sun, just the ticket for standing in the pissing rain on a delightful British midsummer's day.
I thought you were oot?
ie ‘Dragons Den’, ie with a particular pitcher but the show goes on. No offence, just not much into dancing 😘
, hotter than the sun
Eh, y’alright you!
.
esterday you made a lengthy post about your chemical engineering friend calling everything chemicals. I wish you’d at least be consistently vague.
No, the how do you live, everything is chemicals crew is on here. I said
So I asked him how they referred to the kind of ‘chemicals’ that they made – synthetic vs pure, man-made vs natural etc, etc. He said they called them chemicals and everyone understood what they meant. All the other terms were misleading and in many cases innaccurate.
So they called food food, lunch lunch cars cars (even though everything is chemicals)
The stuff they made they called chemicals. If one of them said that they spilled some chemicals, the didn't mean their tea, even though everything is chemicals.
You’ve picked a word, attached some arbitrary meaning to it which only exists in your head
Actually the meanings are not remotely arbritary, they are consistent and are in any dictionary you care to pick up. I use one of the meanings and I use it consistently.
As a non-exhaustive but illustrative example, I ate a delicious, nutritious, chemical free hamburger for lunch. After lunch I used some non-delicious, non-nutritional, non-chemical free brake cleaner on my rotors. Because I try to reduce my exposure to chemicals, I used a mask and gloves and I didn't spray it on my hamburger.
So when I said I try to minimise my exposure to chemicals, I meant the type of things that you might find in brake cleaner. To list all the chemicals I try to avoid would require STW to get another server.
So to answer the people who responded to my initial post about minimising my exposure to chemicals in food by saying are you starving cos everything is chemicals, what word would you like me to use to mean the types of chemicals in the brake cleaner vs the types of chemicals in my hamburger.
I've been trying to think of a word or phrase which works. Toxic doesn't, because almost everything in the world is toxic to someone or something in the right quantity or context. Artificial doesn't work because they are quite real. Processed? I process food everyday in my kitchen and it is chemical free, And so on, and so on.
ie ‘Dragons Den’, ie with a particular pitcher but the show goes on. No offence, just not much into dancing 😘
Fair enough. I was taking the michael a bit but I felt some of it got a bit personal, which makes me take the michael more.
Serious question then: Why would you choose a processed thing like vegan sausage rolls over a veggie samosa, the lebanese pastries stuffed with ground chick pea? something like that, or a bhaji? Are you not concerned that a lot of the vegan stuff available in supermarkets is pretty highly processed and as such not so good for us?
The stuff they made they called chemicals. If one of them said that they spilled some chemicals, the didn’t mean their tea, even though everything is chemicals.
But we've already explored the "things made by ICI" angle with little conclusion.
Actually the meanings are not remotely arbritary, they are consistent and are in any dictionary you care to pick up. I use one of the meanings and I use it consistently.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Which of these dictionary meanings are you using consistently? That'd be really helpful to know.
I ate a delicious, nutritious, chemical free hamburger for lunch.
That seems highly unlikely. No salt in it, was there?
when I said I try to minimise my exposure to chemicals, I meant the type of things that you might find in brake cleaner.
So what types of chemicals might you find in brake cleaner that also crop up in food?
what word would you like me to use to mean the types of chemicals in the brake cleaner vs the types of chemicals in my hamburger.
I thought you just said your hamburger was chemical-free?
In any case, we're back to the same argument, you're asking us to define your terms. "Types" of chemicals is nonsensical in this context. Organic vs inorganic? Man-made vs naturally occurring? Toxic vs non-toxic? FDA-approved or not? MHRA-approved or not? Something else?
Why would you choose a processed thing like vegan sausage rolls over a veggie samosa, the lebanese pastries stuffed with ground chick pea? something like that, or a bhaji? Are you not concerned that a lot of the vegan stuff available in supermarkets is pretty highly processed and as such not so good for us
I wouldn't choose any one of those over the other. Would you? Why?
How is a sausage roll "processed" whereas the other things you list there aren't?
Is your argument simply that "highly processed" = bad? That would make sense, but things like cornflakes and Greek yoghurt are highly processed, should we be avoiding those?