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I can understand why they'd want to consider the options from a political standpoint, but from an operational perspective, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.
From an operational perspective it’d be better to line up the current U.S. administration and …………………….. in their heads
The F35 is orders of magnitude a much much better airplane,
I note from previous posts you have a keen interest in military aviation matters and undoubtedly know more than me (not hard)! However I would argue objectively "better" in a top trumps way, does not necessarily mean it's a better fit for Canada's use case.
If it is more complex, expensive, unreliable, won't support as many Canadian jobs and be beholden to a hostile and unpredictable neighbour for software updates and parts. Perhaps an aircraft that is "good enough", but without the complexity, unreliability, political baggage and sovereignty concerns is a better option?
A few things I picked up from random Googling. I defer to your greater knowledge if these aren't true?
F35 availability in US hands hovers at only around 50%
Canada only has 2 bases with the runway length and infrastructure to accommodate the F35 neither of them anywhere near the likely threat if it was from the arctic (though handy for the threat from their southern border 😉). The Grippen can operate from almost anywhere and right into the Canadian far north. Surely in a serious need, that ability to disperse from 2 static locations is invaluable?
The F35 reportedly needs a maintenance team of 300 trained technicians per squadron, v the Grippen with (reportedly) I technician and 2 conscripts per aircraft.
The Gripen is cheaper to acquire and significantly cheaper to operate per flight hour than the F-35, with acquisition costs in the $60-85 million range vs. $80-100+ million for the F-35, and operating costs potentially $8k-$10k/hr for the Gripen vs. $30k-$40k+/hr for the F-35. I'm guessing that would allow pilots to fly many more training hours which would increase competence and readiness?
The sovereignty issue alone would sway my hand, when only today Trump has been posting images on Social media showing Canada as part of the US.
^^ I didn't say that. I had to go and check I didn't mind you! 😁
It's ok, I'm coping with a few quotation 'features' on the forum today too! Lol
Surely in a serious need, that ability to disperse from 2 static locations is invaluable?
I'd have thought that dispersal would be a top priority for Canada with so much space to disperse to. Only two static locations seems a big risk.
^^ I didn't say that. I had to go and check I didn't mind you!
Oops!! Sorry Poopy! Fixed (I think).
We are about to have to transform our defense capabilities at a speed not seen in our lifetimes. The British public are not prepared for the cost of this, but they need to be. It can’t be hidden in cuts to aid and freezing tax thresholds…
This is what was being discussed today. However it goes in the next few days/years, UK now know they need to be independent of the USA (or anyone else) and it is going to take a lot of money to get this in a very short time as is required.
It will undoubtedly mean the services we take for granted, the stuff we are already concerned about, will very likely face bigger cuts. Public spending for health, housing, social care will need to be streamlined to save the billions needed.
Nobody except the very old will be able to remember when the country had to pull its belt in - its hard to imagine how difficult its going to be, nor the repercussions if its not done properly.
and that toughness will need to be seen to be spread fairly.
And that the most difficult bit .. such austerity only fuels the far right more.
It will undoubtedly mean the services we take for granted, the stuff we are already concerned about, will very likely face bigger cuts. Public spending for health, housing, social care will need to be streamlined to save the billions needed.
That would lead to disaster. It is that kind of shit politics that will cause catastrophic failure, and allow the far right in and what we see now in the US will be repeated across europe. That is what US and the oligarchs want. We can use this to transforms economies for the good of all, punishing the poor and the working people is what has lead to this, now is the time to be bold to create equality not deepen inequality.
We have been bombarded with far right economic propaganda, and that has created a baseline of inequality that too many people think is the only option, what we see now is the failure of that system and belief. Doubling down into that ignorance will not deliver any better results than it has for the last 20 years, now we need change not continued dogma.
There is no better time to get a real green new deal, to build public housing, to improve public health, and yes to build european military independence, but if we are to do any of those things then everyone needs to know it is for the good of us all, and not just to make the oligarchs and corporations even richer while the rest of us pay all the cost, in wealth, health and happiness.
Clumsy wording but UK Govt didn't care for Falklands leading up to the invasion so the opportunity arose to defend the Islands and also use the war as political capital
No bugger in the UK had ever heard of the Falklands and I doubt many politicians at the time were even aware of them!
Not sure Reagan started any wars either - and went a long way to ending the cold war. The US was involved in various world troubles at the time but that's always been the case.
If you lived in Bristol you probably did 🙂
My neighbour was Fred when I was little DoD.
”The Avon is notoriously difficult to navigate, with tricky tides and the horseshoe bend which has been the site of many accidents involving large vessels. Avonmouth provided channel pilots to guide ships along the river and the pilot on the SS Great Britain that day was Shirehampton resident, Fred Amphlett. His son Ed remembers “The ship had come into Avonmouth the previous evening, they were planning to take it up the channel that day but it was too late. My father was lucky, there was a rota for the pilots and he was on, so he got the opportunity to bring the ship in”
Don't use China as pretext for seeking 'selfish gains,' foreign ministry says
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Guo Jiakun holds a news conference in Beijing. © Kyodo
YUKIO TAJIMA
January 19, 2026 22:53 JST
BEIJING -- China's foreign ministry on Monday took aim at U.S. President Donald Trump's threat to impose sanctions on European countries that oppose his ambition to control Greenland.
"The international law underpinned by the purposes and principles of the United Nations charter is the foundation of the current international order and must be upheld," Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Guo Jiakun told a news conference.
"We urge the U.S. to stop using the so-called China threat as a pretext for itself to seek selfish gains," Guo added.
Trump has repeatedly said that the U.S. needs Greenland because China and Russia want the resource-rich arctic island for themselves.
In an escalation of his rhetoric, Trump on Saturday said he would impose a 10% tariff on goods from eight European countries -- Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the U.K., the Netherlands and Finland -- until they agree to support to his talk of buying Greenland, a self-governing Danish island.
"World Peace is at stake!" Trump said in a Truth Social post. "China and Russia want Greenland, and there is not a thing that Denmark can do about it."
Last week, Danish Foreign Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen told reporters in Washington that Trump's assertions that the world's largest island is "surrounded" by Russian and Chinese ships is factually inaccurate.
"It is not a true narrative that we have Chinese warships all around the place," Lokke Rasmussen said. "According to our intelligence, we haven't had a Chinese warship in Greenland for a decade or so."
No other country can continue using the F35 long term without the USA.
Equally the USA cannot continue using the F35 without the contribution that UK (BAE Systems for rear fuselages, tails, electronic warfare systems), Italy (Leonardo for wings, cockpit, targeting systems), Denmark (Terma for aerostructures/containers), Norway (Kongsberg for pylons, JSM missile parts), Germany (Rheinmetall for fuselage sections), and the Netherlands (various components, logistics) make. All told about a quarter of the F35 is made in Europe.
However I would argue objectively "better" in a top trumps way, does not necessarily mean it's a better fit for Canada's use case.
The Canadian armed forces designed their own fly-off comparing the F35 and Grippen E back in 2021 you can read about it here They concluded that for their own purposes, the F35 was way better. That's not me saying it
The sorts of aircraft that the Russians and the Chinese can put in the air now make planes like the Grippen E extremely vulnerable. If you want to understand how, just read what happened to the Indian Air force when it put up the Rafale (similar capability to the Grippen E, if not slightly better) against ****stan J-10s and it's PL15 missile. I think it would be very difficult for Canadian politicians to persuade Canadian fighter pilots to go into combat against Su27s and Su30's and J10s with inferior planes and hope the doctrine and tactics will win knowing they could've had the F35
I get that it's very hard for the Canadians to square this circle, it's not something I'd want to have to do. But it's like comparing a Santa Cruz Hightower or a 5010 against a Muddyfox or Apollo. and choosing the latter because you don't like the Santa Cruz salesman.
Gotta stop watching news programs, so utterly depressing. Newsnight just had MAGA nutter Andy Ogles with a Greenland minister insisting Greenlanders want to be part of states.
Gotta stop watching news programs, so utterly depressing. Newsnight just had MAGA nutter Andy Ogles with a Greenland minister insisting Greenlanders want to be part of states.
Meanwhile there was a video earlier on Twitter (now removed) of a hunting group/party in Greenland out practicing using an image of trumps ear as a target and a bullet hole right in the center with the words underneath “we do not miss”, good on them.
I’d donate to a crowdfunding campaign to help them out
Gotta stop watching news programs, so utterly depressing. Newsnight just had MAGA nutter Andy Ogles with a Greenland minister insisting Greenlanders want to be part of states.
Have to agree, it's a little terrifying too as there are an absolute multitude of ways that this all plays out very badly even if it's not immediately apparent by the end of trump's term.
Chesterton's Fence is being played out before us, NATO, the UN all being actively undermined by a madman with no plan of how to replace them other than with a venture to make money or a might is right approach.
Amazing really as America is not flagging it's power to the world, it's flagging its weakness with these desperate death throes.
All we can try to do is not be dragged down with the sinking ship.
it's like comparing a Santa Cruz Hightower or a 5010 against a Muddyfox or Apollo. and choosing the latter because you don't like the Santa Cruz salesman.
It's not quite that simple though, do Santa Cruz bikes have a remote kill switch that renders the bike useless if you say things their CEO doesn't like?
Ripped from the FT:
https://www.ft.com/content/159bc866-1f2a-44eb-8bff-ff7c73749def
Sir Keir Starmer, UK prime minister, on Tuesday prepared to turn his back on US President Donald Trump’s proposed “Board of Peace”, as Britain’s fabled “special” relationship with the US reached a nadir.Trump’s claim that Britain had shown “total weakness” by handing Mauritius ownership of the Chagos Islands — home to a US-UK air base — came at a time of growing tensions between the long-term partners.Starmer said this week he was “talking to allies about the terms of the Board of Peace”, but British officials said he was not about to sign up to a body that charged a hefty membership fee for a permanent seat and included Russian President Vladimir Putin among its members.One said: “The official position is that we are considering it. But you don’t have to be a political genius to work out that paying $1bn of taxpayers’ money to sit on a board with Putin isn’t going to fly. I don’t think people are going to sign up to it.”The Kremlin said this week that Trump had invited Putin to sit on the body, intended to mediate in Gaza and other geopolitical hotspots. The board will sit above an advisory committee that will include Sir Tony Blair, former UK prime minister.UK Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper told MPs on Tuesday: “Putin is not a man of peace, and I don’t think he belongs in any organisation with peace in the name.”Washington has sent out invitations to dozens of heads of state and government to join the Board of Peace, which Trump will chair. Countries that join the board will serve a limited three-year term unless they contribute more than $1bn, according to the text of its charter.Starmer chaired his stunned cabinet on Tuesday in the wake of accusations by Trump that the UK had shown “stupidity” over its plan to transfer sovereignty of the Chagos Islands, including the US air base of Diego Garcia.Trump’s social media attack on Starmer for signing the Chagos deal “FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER” detonated in Downing Street on Tuesday morning. “There is no doubt that China and Russia will have noticed this act of total weakness,” Trump added.s — even with US approval — then perhaps one day Denmark might hand over Greenland to China. “That’s the premise,” said one official.The attack blindsided UK officials, even though Starmer and Trump had held a chilly conversation on Sunday over the US president’s aspirations to take control of Greenland, an approach described by the prime minister as “completely wrong”.As Starmer digested Trump’s social media attack, in another part of Whitehall the government was about to give a long-awaited green light to a Chinese “super embassy” in London, a scheme that had previously attracted criticism in Washington.The clearance of the new embassy, dubbed “a colossal spy hub in the heart of our capital” by shadow foreign secretary Dame Priti Patel, clears the way for Starmer to visit Beijing next week, the first visit by a British prime minister since 2018.With Trump claiming that China poses a threat in the Arctic that can only be addressed by the US taking control of Greenland, the timing of the embassy decision and Starmer’s visit has come at a highly sensitive moment.Starmer has so far declined to travel to Davos to meet Trump on Wednesday, although he is open to the idea of attending a formal G7 meeting mooted by French President Emmanuel Macron to discuss a range of foreign issues.Labour officials said that Starmer was determined to focus on domestic issues where possible, with one adding: “Going to a private meeting in the Alps to sit around in chaos isn’t a good use of his time. It would be different if there was an official multilateral meeting.”In spite of the multiple flashpoints, Starmer’s instincts are to keep talking to Trump and to try to contain public rows. “What’s the alternative?” asked Lord Peter Mandelson, who Starmer sacked as UK ambassador to Washington last year. “Shouting at him from across the street with a megaphone?”Mandelson added: “Do we think we can really do without US military expenditure? There’s a public sentiment that we should tell Trump where to get off. I can understand that. But it doesn’t lead to any cogent, alternative policy.”One Starmer ally agreed: “We must stay the course.” But Sir Ed Davey, the Liberal Democrat leader, said on Tuesday that Trump’s comments on Chagos “shows Starmer’s approach to Trump has failed. The Chagos deal was sold as proof the government could work with him, now it’s falling apart.”Within the UK government, views diverge over whether Britain should cleave closest to the US or Europe, with new attempts to forge stronger trading and military ties with neighbouring democracies. Starmer has insisted that he would not choose between the two.Varun Chandra, the prime minister’s business adviser and US trade envoy, and Mandelson have been seen as champions of the former approach. Labour MPs have so far generally refrained from criticising Starmer over his attempts to stay close to Trump.UK officials cling to the hope that those in the US administration with a more global outlook, such as Treasury secretary Scott Bessent, could help rein in Trump’s instincts.On Tuesday, Bessent https://www.ft.com/content/9f518c00-ce6c-46d0-8ffb-d32275e945d 8" target="_blank" rel="noopener">mocked the idea that Europe could respond forcefully to Trump’s threats of imposing tariffs if he is not given Greenland. “I imagine they will form the dreaded European working group,” he said in Davos.A big test for the relationship looms with plans, not officially confirmed, for King Charles to visit Washington in July to mark the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, a visit that is notionally a matter for Buckingham Palace.Trump’s public criticisms of Britain and his occasional suggestions that he would like to take over Canada, where King Charles is the head of state, have made the planned visit especially political and Downing Street will be closely involved.Starmer has resisted suggestions that Britain might threaten the US with reciprocal tariffs to influence Trump’s Greenland ambitions. A trade war against a much bigger US economy would hurt Britain, the prime minister has warned. The royal visit is one of the few levers at his disposal.
An article so devoid of critical thinking and analysis that they even asked disgraced peado island visitor and right wing economic greed and corruption crusader Mandelson his opinion.
An article so devoid of critical thinking and analysis
That's because it's a news article, not an opinion piece.
You should probably look up the difference. 🤤
do Santa Cruz bikes have a remote kill switch
This conspiracy theory needs to die. The F35 doesn't have a kill switch.
I get that it's very hard for the Canadians to square this circle, it's not something I'd want to have to do.
Again - I have little knowledge on military, or any other type of aeroplane, so could be missing something obvious here
But .. according to Google (yep) it says the GCAP 6th Generation fighter jet will be superior to the F35 and hoping (yep, again) to be in service in 2035 .. mindful of the urgency here, maybe this would be given extra attention to be ready earlier (instead of the 2040 prediction) and be a far better option for those now weary of USA military equipment?
Yes, it's not currently available, but the F35 has delays too. The Japanese also raised an almost 7 billion dollar delay of US equipment too .. so maybe a bit of a delay isn't too concerning given alternatives.
More info on the JAS 39E "Gripen" here: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_39_Gripen_E/F
As much as I would like to see Saab getting more business (not a shareholder), the F35 is a newer generation and is arguably what should be used _now_. Gripen is newer than Eurofighter, better (possibly) but, as has already been said, the same generation as both Eurofighter and Rafale.
The wins for the platform (compared to F35) are the much cheapness, the heavier weapons load, the lower operating costs and the ability to be dispersed (because that is what Sweden has for doctrine). It's also not going to have the problems that _can_ be introduced by the US government (software limiting).
BUTT... it will still have issues being delivered if the US decides to limit export of engines (GE derived) and munitions. Saab can supply a bunch of those, but the US is the big exporter. It's also not stealthy, so the modern generation fighters from CN and US could get an advantage from that. How much that advantage would be worth is up for discussion, especially around CN fighter doctrine (and I am/was Army, so I'm not up on that).
TL;DR: Gripen is a capable airframe for the role it is designed for. That role is not stealth-enhanced "do everything including nuclear-armed strike missions", it is "Shit's got real, kill as many things as possible until Finland, Norway and Denmark can stop Russia rolling into Stockholm".
It's not quite that simple though, do Santa Cruz bikes have a remote kill switch that renders the bike useless if you say things their CEO doesn't like?
Explains some of my riding about 15 years ago....
The Canadian armed forces designed their own fly-off comparing the F35 and Grippen E back in 2021 you can read about it here They concluded that for their own purposes, the F35 was way better. That's not me saying it
Thanks, I will have a read of that later. I note though, that the world was a VERY different place in 2021, especially from a Canadian perspective.
But it's like comparing a Santa Cruz Hightower or a 5010 against a Muddyfox or Apollo. and choosing the latter because you don't like the Santa Cruz salesman.
That analogy would only work if the Santa Cruz salesman also planned on chucking you out of your house and moving in! I see it as like Taiwan buying fighters from China or Ukraine from Russia. Well not exactly, but you know what I mean.
That's because it's a news article, not an opinion piece.
You should probably look up the difference
Well it gave the predictable opinions of Mandelson, which few people would consider as news, but I guess you do.
Maybe you can explain why you think regurgitating a "news article" of inane nothingness is worthy of posting?
Probably not the topic but there isn't one so I'll put the comment here..
Did anyone catch Mark Carney's speech?
Do you think he'd be interested in a job swap with Starmer? That is a man with the intelligent, careful, considered but punchy rhetoric I'd like steering my ship. And what they have achieved for the Canadian economy in the last year in the face of unprecedented pressures - yep, he's what we need (all) need right now.
Probably not the topic but there isn't one so I'll put the comment here..
Did anyone catch Mark Carney's speech?
Do you think he'd be interested in a job swap with Starmer? That is a man with the intelligent, careful, considered but punchy rhetoric I'd like steering my ship. And what they have achieved for the Canadian economy in the last year in the face of unprecedented pressures - yep, he's what we need (all) need right now.
Yes, I saw it. He is a true statesman and a very sharp operator. Definitely the kind of leader the world needs more of right now. If you haven't already, the "Rest of Politics, Leading" podcast episode where he was interviewed at length is worth a listen.
I have been impressed with Carney, far more than I expected, I suspect without Trumps madness he would have just been the "boring technocrat" that Starmer portrayed himself as, changing little for the better or worse. But given the challenge that he has faced he has stood up to be counted far more than others.
If you haven't already, the "Rest of Politics, Leading" podcast episode where he was interviewed at length is worth a listen.
Spotify link though I note that interview is a couple years old now. Alistair Campbell and Anthony Scaramucci also interviewed him more recently (Feb 25) on the main "Rest is Politics" podcast. It's on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/live/U5u2zmpvBBk?si=p288WkxLbi7HR0Rl
I watched Carney's speech last night too. Very good. A rare politician I can respect. Honestly don't think I've ever watched a politician speak in full before without turning it off. It felt hopeful, but also felt there were a few nods and reassurances (that weren't for us), the mentioning of AI for instance.
Such a massive contrast to Trump's press conference I attempted to watch yesterday.
The Associated Press video has much better sound quality btw.
do Santa Cruz bikes have a remote kill switch
This conspiracy theory needs to die. The F35 doesn't have a kill switch.
I was being facetious, but that said, the hardware may not, but the software will.
Any chance that we can get back to Greenland 🤣
Hopefully this will allay your fears. If there was such a thing then some young Minecraft gamer with Top Secret clearance could publish it on Discord for the whole world to see; it doesn't make sense
Even if there was, then we have a set of keys too.
BAe Systems Rochester (UK) make the Active Inceptor Systems for the flight controls and the Electronic Warfare suite is made by BAe (US), which provides both offensive and defensive targetting.
No AIS, no flying. No EW, no fighting.
Ditto our nuclear deterrent. We have the necessary codes and the PM doesn't need to consult the US, however, major maintenance and refurbs are all done in the US
BAE Systems is the world leader in active inceptor systems. These systems reduce pilot workload while ensuring that the pilot remains the ultimate decision-making authority for the aircraft’s control. These inceptors – the sidesticks or centersticks used to direct and maneuver aircraft – are line-replaceable, unit-based, self-contained systems that enhance pilot-vehicle interface
with variable feel, damping, inertia, friction control, and shaker functionality, allowing for tactile cues and soft stops.BAE Systems is the only supplier of flight-worthy active inceptors, with programs including F-35, T-50, UH-60MU, CH-53K, KC-390, and MH-47G
Our AN/ASQ-239 system is a next generation electronic warfare suite providing offensive and defensive options for the pilot and aircraft to counter current and emerging threats. Its advanced technology optimizes situational awareness while helping to identify, monitor, analyze, and respond to threats. Advanced avionics and sensors provide a real-time, 360º view of the battlespace, maximizing detection ranges and giving pilots evasion, engagement, countermeasure, and jamming options.
https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/an-asq-239-f-35-ew-countermeasure-system
major maintenance and refurbs are all done in the US
Indeed. Forget about all this "kill switch" nonsense, it's the supply and maintain chains that are at risk.
Buying more aircraft that rely on USA cooperation to keep flying long term makes less sense to Canada, or European countries, now. No one outside the Middle East is going to increase their order book for F35s over the next few years. Cancellations aren't impossible either. The idea that it is an "international" project is being killed by Trump more each day with these claims over Greenland and Canada, and the "let me do what I want or you're on your own" message to European "allies".
but the software will.
It really really doesn't. But it doesn't really need to, the two ways in which the USA can restrict use of the F-35 One. Directly by grounding aircraft by restricting spares access, and two, by downgrading it's capability by stopping some satellites communicating with them. The crucial difference between aircraft like the Grippen and the F35 is not necessarily it's stealth capabilities, or the 'top trump' specs like speed or weapons, its the F35's situational awareness, it's information processing, and more importantly the ability to share both information and priorities with other aircraft, ground troops and Navy The SATCOM and data link capacity of the F35 means it can use commercial satellites should it need to (Starlink for instance). In a demo a year or so back, an F35 send comms over 5000 miles directly, there's literally no other similar aircraft can do that.
The Grippen E is designed to be the 21stC F-5 - an Airplane the CAF used in the 70's and 80's and and then upgraded to the F18. Capable 'enough' for conventional/asymmetric environments for not much money (relatively) cheap to run, and easy to learn to fly (or convert from similar types of A/C) and maintain, and the ability to use pretty modern weaponry. It's very good in that role, which is why 300 have been made and sold. But if you have the opportunity to buy F35, you absolutely would.
Having said all that, I think Carney lit the fuse yesterday anyway on Canada/USA relations, so the point's probably moot now.
Any chance that we can get back to Greenland
That’s optimistic- once the military masturbation starts it tends to run and run. So to speak.
Something that is disappointing is that discussion has deviated to tariffs and financial issues rather than restating that any outcome other than Greenlanders deciding their own future is unacceptable, just as with Ukrainians. It’s not a negotiation. There is no “deal”.
Any chance that we can get back to Greenland
That’s optimistic- once the military masturbation starts it tends to run and run. So to speak.
Apologies, my bad for discussing "variable feel, damping, inertia, friction control, and shaker functionality, allowing for tactile cues and soft stops." ^^
Something that is disappointing is that discussion has deviated to tariffs and financial issues rather than restating that any outcome other than Greenlanders deciding their own future is unacceptable, just as with Ukrainians. It’s not a negotiation. There is no “deal”.
I'm not sure that you can separate those issues. It's comparable to discussing a plea bargain in Court for theft; it's assumed that everyone understands that theft is illegal and that shouldn't need emphasis.
The good speeches by politicians are disappointing because the WH believes what it believes and you won't sway them with stern words and a strongly-worded communique.
The EU took 25 years to negotiate a single trade agreement with the Americas and even after signing it might be held up in Court for another two years.
Troops in Greenland is a good start, now keep pushing back
That’s optimistic- once the military masturbation starts it tends to run and run. So to speak.
People have discussed political, financial, logistical, legal, ethical, environmental and yes military aspects on this thread, and plenty of others I've overlooked no doubt. Because all are relevant. None of us have any real answers, this is just random mtber's sharing their thoughts and concerns over what is a pretty scary situation. Some have insights into specific aspects, which may or may not be relevant, but which are easy to ignore if they are not of interest to you.
When you dust off your well worn jibe, wielded repeatedly on the Ukraine thread, people stop listening. Which is a shame, as you usually have plenty of other, more valuable stuff to contribute. We all get that you bristle with indignation at any mention of military matters and think those who share any knowledge of it are armchair generals and wannabe baby killers. But in the interests of a less rancorous, more wide ranging "debate" (or at least a pressure valve for our mental health), maybe resist the urge to fling insults eh?
maybe resist the urge to fling insults eh?
At the end of 2 paragraphs of insults that looks a little comical.
Anything to say on the actual topic?
Something that is disappointing is that discussion has deviated to tariffs and financial issues rather than restating that any outcome other than Greenlanders deciding their own future is unacceptable, just as with Ukrainians. It’s not a negotiation. There is no “deal”.
Trump really is something in the fact that he not only sees absolutely everything as transactional, he obviously finds it completely incomprehensible that there are some things that don’t have a price and can’t be bought. He just can’t get his tiny mind around that very simple premise
That’s a pretty terrifying mindset. I honestly think he’s a psychopath
It's comparable to discussing a plea bargain in Court for theft; it's assumed that everyone understands that theft is illegal and that shouldn't need emphasis.
Maybe I'm too devoted to principles. From where I'm sitting there is no discussion to be had, come what may.
Maybe I'm too devoted to principles. From where I'm sitting there is no discussion to be had, come what may.
We are discussing actors who don't have principles, not you. So please excuse us whilst we carry on.
You called people ****ers, you have no credible room for criticism of subsequent responses.
Do grow up. I made a small non-personal joke at the expense of the Airfix Obsessives, as a prelude to a larger comment about the situation in Greenland. In response BUTR treated us to a psychological analysis of my contributions to the forum as a whole. Nothing more to say on this - just give the ad hominem a rest will you?