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There is a risk to the kids, no one knows what the longer term effects are of having caught covid as a child. I’m not sure what’s the worse risk, someone in their 70s dying a few years early after a good healthy life to that point, or someone having to live with an autoimmune condition from the age of 5
This is spot on. The same wallopers that come out "but it's been rushed, the long term effects are unknown" fail to engage their brain long enough to recognise this. Those that do just usually flip to the "it's a hoax" conspiracy when the contradictions and lack of understanding in the testing argument is pointed out.
I'm always puzzled by the way a lot of stupid people have done a lot of "research" to back up their stupid pronouncements on things like vaccines and conspiracy theories.
Just a shame they can't spend time researching actual facts. I suppose it's a lot less exciting.
Has anyone got figures for the amount of blood clots noted in long haul fliers, routine operations & the contraceptive pill? My BIL is an anti vaxxer but flies long haul to see friends in Seattle. (not lately, obs) His arguments are, the blood clot thing that was mentioned & that Boris is making a fortune out of it,(he hates the tories too) which is probably true but someone's going to & if it stops me getting it or being very ill I don't give a shite. Plus he doesn't trust Astra Zenica either, no idea why.
Deciding not to be vaccinated does not make anyone "anti vax" It just means they have decided not to have it. ( I know in this case they are preaching not to but it's a label being thrown around to make folk feel superior)
There choice. Your choice of how to deal with it, but really ? if they don't want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
Kids aren't at risk and grandparent has made their choice.
Anti vaxers are part of the 51%....
There choice. Your choice of how to deal with it, but really ? if they don’t want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
Kids aren’t at risk and grandparent has made their choice.
Kids have a much lower risk but its not zero.
I'd just avoid them, their choice not to have the jab but they have to accept social isolation as a consequence of their decision.
They'll back down if they realise it's the only way they'll see their grand kids again.
I have zero tolerance for such stupidity, just deport them all to the IoW and stick a massive barbed wire fence round them. They can come out if they have a jab, otherwise let them rot.
For the sake of debate only:
If you and kids are vaccinated what is the risk to you?
If she 100% understands that if she has made the wrong decision Covid could kill her, yet is happy with that risk, regardless if it is right or wrong, what is the problem?
Personally I think it is pretty stupid but that is standard for MIL’s right?
if they don’t want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
Wel for starters, there's the worry that stupidity might be contagious.
If you and kids are vaccinated what is the risk to you?
The fact that the vaccine doesn't prevent you getting the desease, it just [significantly] reduces the risk.
My parents won’t be.
But that’s because one died with suspected but not tested COVID and one with confirmed COVID.
Shit, that's a tough one to take. Luckily for me despite me having had it and Mrs anagallis I've been unaffected as far as losing anyone close...brings it into focus. Take care of yourself.
I’m always puzzled by the way a lot of stupid people have done a lot of "research"
Usually done sitting on the pan, rather than as part of recognised research institute.
You could just gently explain that you are all getting the vaccine when available. Prior to any visit it would be nice if she could confirm where the will is, her preference on cremation or burial and where the family photos are.
A different issue, but the same principle, happened when we were planning to have sprogs. Both my in-laws smoked 20-40 a day. I just said if they carry on, we will not visit them and they must not smoke at all when with the kids.
Lo and behold, grandad stopped smoking within a few weeks (closely followed by a heart attack) and grandma is down to tooting on a douche flute a few times a day, which I've tolerated because she does make a remarkable effort to get out of sight/smell when doing it.
The parallels are there; "it's going to kill me not you" and other such bullshit taking the c'est la vie approach.
It's also remarkable how many oldies think they are impervious to the virus having had their 2 jabs. While a bunch more walk around in terror and further more like the OP's example still pretend this thing is somehow not real. Do they not talk to each other?!?
if they don’t want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
Kids aren’t at risk and grandparent has made their choice.
As several of us have said, we don't want our kids worried they'd killed granny.
It's their funeral.
Not being in that situation, I don't know how I would react, but I think it would be somewhere between banning visits and shrugging and letting them take the risk if they are so eager. I wouldn't be worried about any threat they might pose nor would I lose any sleep over infecting them. After all you'd never know it was you anyway.
****ing hell Igm that’s sobering though, my deepest condolences.
Wouldn't bother me in the slightest , she is entitled to her opinion but as long as you and the family comply there isn't really a problem In my opinion. Live and let live
Kids aren’t at risk
Admittedly not from the current variants at large in UK today, the P1 type on the other hand is killing lots of young people in Brazil. Once the flying starts that will be coming here (probably from a Portuguese/Spanish territory), then all bets are off on your statement.
You have my condolences igm. MiL died at New Year from enforced isolation in the care home (she gave up as life was not worth it any more after 3 months of on/off self isolation in her room).
I'd ask her local GP to phone her and explain the questions she is clearly worried about. She is afraid of it, and at that age people will tend to be so, especially given all the misinformation and actual side effects.
She need reassurance, not negativity.
I'm of the opinion with all those refusing the vaccine for non medical reasons that ultimately it's up to them. That said if they subsequently die because of their own stupid desicion that's just tough luck, I'll have very little sympathy
I'd be happy to visiting them once I'd been vaccinated, risk to you is minimal. If they die because they get something from the kids then just remind them they could have picked it up from anywhere.
"As several of us have said, we don’t want our kids worried they’d killed granny."
And you'd be sure to tell your kids they were to blame wouldn't you...
If someone doesn't want it, you can't force them. Maybe they've had a rich and fruitful life and despair of their namby pamby offspring who don't appear to do much of interest, just spending every waking hour on a cycling forum when they don't even cycle..
Or maybe they just don't like being used as free babysitters...
As several of us have said, we don’t want our kids worried they’d killed granny.
They're only likely to get this idea from their parents at 5 & 7. IF she's against vaccines she probably will just return to normal life as things open up so she's more likely to catch it elsewhere than from people who have been vaccinated. You should feel free to let her know you disagree with her choice but it makes little sense to cut her out of your, and your kids life.
There is a risk to the kids, no one knows what the longer term effects are of having caught covid as a child. I’m not sure what’s the worse risk, someone in their 70s dying a few years early after a good healthy life to that point, or someone having to live with an autoimmune condition from the age of 5
Totally spot on. The “it doesn’t affect kids” brigade should come and meet my youngest daughter (2). We strongly suspect she has long COVID, having come down with something inexplicable that made her vomit, have a temperature, breath bizarrely rapidly, not sleep, not eat, for an entire month on return from skiing in Austria in feb last year. She has days where she can’t walk more than 50metres, wont scoot on her bike, or play in the garden. I get “daddy my arm’s sore” or “my legs hurt” or “I got pain in my tummy” and this look of genuine desperation.
The day we rushed her to Sunderland Royal, having had her turn blue, that was just £¥#%ing marvellous. It was at the start of it all, there was no testing and they literally wouldn’t let her in the building.
I know it’s a vaccine (not a cure or a preventative cure like the MSM seem to portray it) and in theory not every one will actually need it to kill the whole thing off from a rampaging pandemic point of view. But the more the merrier.
IGM your post made me both incredibly sad and simultaneously incredibly annoyed. You have my deepest sympathies.
“I want to see my grandchildren”
“But you seem to have made it conditional upon visits for you to pick up a revolver, spin the chamber and force us to watch you insert it into your mouth and pull the trigger until it goes click.”
“So? It’s me not you”
One bloke turned up in full Tuxedo and bow tie.
That is ace.
If you and kids are vaccinated what is the risk to you?
There is no vaccine for kids yet.
despair of their namby pamby offspring who don’t appear to do much of interest, just spending every waking hour on a cycling forum when they don’t even cycle
I'd just love to know how you reach that conclusion about the op from their post..?
And you’d be sure to tell your kids they were to blame wouldn’t you…
Seriously?
How do you solve the issue of your kids inadvertantly causing the death of your parents? - "Oh, we just won't tell them. Job jobbed."
**** me. The force is strong in this one.
If someone doesn’t want it, you can’t force them.
True. But you can enforce not visiting them again until they do.
I had this argument when visiting my mum way back when masks first became a thing. "Oh," she says, "you don't need to wear that silly thing when you're in here." Yes, yes I do, otherwise I'm not coming around again, so choose.
She chose. When she was offered the vaccine recently she was on it like a tramp on chips.
I'm so very through mollycoddling people who think they're special. You aren't. Wear a mask, get vaccinated, it's really that simple. Stop acting like a spoilt child because a virus doesn't give a **** about your 'opinions' (and neither do I). "I'm being told to wear a mask, I'm being asked to get vaccinated, woe is me, I'm being oppressed, it's an affront to my civil liberties, sovereignty democracy blue passports!"
Well boo *ing hoo, you should be extremely *ing thankful that masks and vaccines exist, so grow the hell up. "I can't breathe!" **** off you can't, get a grip. It's a bit of cloth, athletes are running races in the things. I live with someone with chronic asthma who carries a rainbow of colour-coded inhalers so that she doesn't die and she can wear them, so what's your 'hidden disability' other than being a selfish cock? (Spoiler: not all that hidden.)
The longer people are going to be wilfully contrary, the longer this bullshit goes on for. And I don't know about anyone else, but I'd quite like to go for a pint this summer.
[My usage of "you" here being "people" generally, I'm not having a pop at anyone on the forum]
Enjoying not being a mod?
Thoroughly agree with your post btw.
brads
There choice. Your choice of how to deal with it, but really ? if they don’t want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
Kids aren’t at risk and grandparent has made their choice.
I can't state just how much I disagree with this. The op's situation has some parallels to my own and its something I've posted about in the main corona thread.
The huge difference between my situation and the op's is that my mum was fine with having the jab at 91 years old.
In my mind it's a horrible position to put a child into knowing that they may well be responsible for infecting their nan. You could hide that truth from them, God forbid it should happen but the op will have to live with the knowledge. It's not a burden I'd like to carry.
It is indeed the grandparents choice but she is old enough to know that the choices we make have consequences both for her and those around her.
I sympathise op, it's a terrible predicament to be put in for absolutely no rational reason.
That's my take and I wish you all the best op.
Tbh imo I feel the big push for vaccination will die off soon enough, they have millions that haven't had the second dose, they are already talking about the first lot that have been vaccinated needing boosters by September its never going to happen, its going to end up over 70s and high risk advised to get it along with certain professions and no one else just like the flu jab, im not sure why they are selling as a virus killer it isn't at best its an NHS helping hand, anyway that doesn't solve your issue but it just gets on my tits people making out the vaccine is the cure when it even states on the bloody paperwork you can still catch and pass on covid just the same and you are just less likely to need a hospital
Maybe the way to look at this - if you cant convince them that they should have the vaccine - is to look at it as if they were unable to have the vaccine due to some genuine/medical reason - what would you do in this situation?
I dont know what the answer is, but looking at it like that might take some of the emotion out of the decision.
Don't hold back Cougar, just say what you really think 😁
Top quality rant. Loving it.
I would like the OP's mum to get vaccinated just so we can draw a line under this thread and the ranting anti-anti-vaxxing. I'm happy to have a word with her along those lines. I love that basically everyone here agrees that vaccination is a good thing, but are desperate to find the slimmest of excuses to emphasise it repeatedly.
Serious point: I almost posted several times, as a few others have done, that an attempt at rational persuasion is a better approach than telling someone they're stupid and condemning them to familial isolation, but I couldn't face the likely howls of self-righteous derision. There's some sort of irony there somewhere, I think.
I completely agree with Cougar. I used to drink and natter occasionally with a guy at my local pub (we both have an interest in old Ford's) but he was also obsessed in bat shit conspiracy theories, which I just ignored. Anyway he thought the whole covid pandemic was a government ploy to put the people into a police state and refused to wear a mask (though he had COPD) or wash his hands regularly. Funnily enough he caught covid and died. Idiots will be idiots and the world will be a better place without them.
but I couldn’t face the likely howls of self-righteous derision
Poor you. Feeling better for that?
They’re only likely to get this idea from their parents at 5 & 7.
But 5 & 7 yr olds get older and develop the reasoning to be able to work out for themselves that it really wasn't a great idea to have continued to see granny when she was at risk and that perhaps their mum and dad should have not allowed visits back in 2021.
an attempt at rational persuasion is a better approach than telling someone they’re stupid
Absolutely, empathetic listening to their concerns and providing facts, suggesting that they talk to someone that they trust e.g. doctor, priest is the best way to change their mind
It is indeed the grandparents choice but she is old enough to know that the choices we make have consequences both for her and those around her.
The consequence is that you can't see them because you love them and don't want to harm them.
Part of the point of vaccinating anyone who is able to be vaccinated is so that those who can't be vaccinated are less at risk of infection.
I have no problem with those who literally can't be vaccinated not having it as it could kill them. Those who can have it, should. To not have it makes them selfish ****s.
Those who refuse on grounds other than actual, diagnosed medical reasons should be kept away from the general population. This goes for any vaccination, BTW, not just for Bat AIDS.
Part of the point of vaccinating anyone who is able to be vaccinated is so that those who can’t be vaccinated are less at risk of infection.
But this vaccine does not do this , and quite clearly states this fact, in fact the only people supporting this idea seem to be the government
But this vaccine does not do this
Does not do what? This?
Poor you. Feeling better for that?
I should probably have just left it at 'I felt uncomfortable with posting'.
Yes exactly that, it doesn't work, ask anyone working on covid wards
but I couldn’t face the likely howls of self-righteous derision
Poor you. Feeling better for that?
He's right though.
Going full-Dawkins on anti-vaxxers is counter-productive really, and it leaves an unpleasant aftertaste of those doing it flexing their perceived intellectual superiority.
Yes exactly that, it doesn’t work, ask anyone working on covid wards
Huh?
I have no problem with those who literally can’t be vaccinated not having it as it could kill them. Those who can have it, should. To not have it makes them selfish ****.
Agree. Young people* have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic and have been asked to shoulder the greatest burden of the lockdowns. They have lost jobs and been asked to put off meeting people, developing friendships, weddings etc, even though the risk to them of Covid is relatively low, in order to protect at risk (mostly older) people.
So to have an OAP refuse the silver bullet that is not only going to protect them, but also offer the rest of society a chance of getting back to normal, it's galling to say the least. I wouldn't say it in those terms to try and persuade a relative, but JFC some people need to get a grip.
* Regrettably I am not including myself in that. I mainly mean school children and young adults who don't have a family.
Deciding not to be vaccinated does not make anyone “anti vax”
Of course, they’re demonstrably big fans of it.
( I know in this case they are preaching not to but it’s a label being thrown around to make folk feel superior)
Don’t talk shite. You think people don’t want others to put their lives at risk out of a sense of superiority? “Look at me, all superior with my ‘not wanting to die’ attitude!” That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read on this thread so far and it’s a thread discussing people who refuse to be vaccinated so it’s a pretty * high bar.
If they don’t want it I see no reason to stop kids visiting.
I mean, the kids might wind up killing their grandparents. So there’s always that. Which is their own fault, but the kids will have to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives.
There choice.
It is. They’re choosing to be selfish *. Welcome to a free country.
It’s the same as these **** roasters walking around supermarkets with their beaks hanging out over the top of their masks or, as seems to be becoming increasingly common, pulling them down to have a conversation. Y’know, right when you need them the most.
Also, it’s “their”. If you want to live here you should probably take time to learn the language.
And this guy used to be a moderator on here? That explains a lot.
Excommunicating your grandparents is way over the top in my opinion.
Everyone calling for that, please take a step back...
Even if they get vaccinated there’s still a significant chance they could get it and pass it on.
Where is the love in the room?