[Closed] Grandparent anti-vax stance

I don't have kids but I think in that situation no one would be visiting the grandparents

It's not the kids at risk from granny, it's granny who is at risk from your kids.

Also, she's an idiot. Sorry, but I'm very bored of this wilful galloping shitwittery around vaccines. People are dying because of scaremongering and a chronic lack of understanding of basic science. It's been rushed to market because, y'know, you might not have noticed but, pandemic, but that doesn't mean it isn't subject to the controls that every other vaccine has been.

Yes, in very rare cases people can have reactions to them. The same is true of Paracetamol, and of peanuts, but no-one ever had an "experimental Snickers". Even this being the case, the alternative is far, far worse. How many people do you know who have had Polio? An entire, and very nasty, disease eradicated globally in a generation.

Might be with trying to find out where the information is coming from.

What @Cougar said 👍

Might be with trying to find out where the information is coming from.

Mail or Express? *flips coin*

Yes, your mum's at risk, not your children. Tell her that for her own safety she will no longer be able to her grandchildren unless there is a pane of glass between them to protect her.

I also have older idiot family members who also have the anti-vax stance. Me and my brother have told them that if they ever want to see either of us ever again then there going to have to get the vaccine.

Cheers both, TJ - this is what I fear and it'll be detrimental to a relationship for no good reason.

Cougar, I'm very much of the same mindset as you. Don't think she reads any paper let alone those two excellent publications

But yeah. A good counter might be "why"?

"Experimental," well, no it isn't, as above. That's just a basic misunderstanding on her part. Any of the other usual AVB (Anti-Vax Bullshit) suspects - mercury / foetuses / autism / my friend knew someone who had a vaccine and 50 years later they died! / etc - are all well documented and readily refuted.

Had a similar problem with the MiL when their vaccine appointment came in initially, didn't want to have it as she had decided in her wisdom that it wasn't safe (goes without saying she has no medical background and had done no research to backup her theory!), was told in no uncertain terms that she wouldn't be seeing (non socially distanced) grandkids or even the rest of us until she gets it due to the chances of her selfishness resulting in the grandchildren having to live with the knowledge that they had infected a grandparent and put them in hospital or worse.!!

She backed down fairly quickly and has had her first dose without complaint.

Apart from when someone decides to believe what a friend sharec on Facebook over the real science, because one is emotional manipulation and worded as such, the other contains lots of big words and dull maths.

I too would take a hard stance on this one.

A neighbour of mine who's just had his first jab got similarly fed up with an anti-vax friend. He was ranting about it the other day. Said that if they refused a vaccine and then got ill with Covid, they should be charged full price of their treatment.

He finished by saying "that'd make the dumb **** think twice!"

My mum's had both now, and my dad will be not far behind. MIL, who is very high risk has had both.

You really don't want to be giving the virus to her, and even if vaccinated you can still carry it. Kids are germ machines.

they'll come round once the "passporting" kicks in.

Cheers all, I've not plucked up the courage for an ultimatum but can see it heading that way.

Sell it on the 'we don't want you getting ill from seeing us' point of view. My folks are desparate to see us and grandkids. Not been for a pint with my dad for 6 months.

My wife’s parents had their doses no problem.

My parents won’t be.

But that’s because one died with suspected but not tested COVID and one with confirmed COVID.

Get your vaccinations. And tell those you care about to do the same.

I have no time for this kind of stupidity.

Next.

When you were a kid you had to do what they said because they knew better than you.

Tell them the boot's on the other foot now. It's been extensively researched and tested and the risk compared to the risk of Covid, particularly to someone of their age, makes it a no brainer. So in the same way as like it or not you had to eat your greens / put your shoes on / go to school despite all your irrational reasoning and tantrums, just do as they're told and get the jab.

Otherwise you'll have to take the rational decision to protect them from themselves by not exposing them to the risk of infection.

It’s like the total Fork Wits I hear deciding they won’t have the 2nd jab cos the 1st made them feel “ a bit rough” for a few days 🤬🤬🤬

Good luck with the oldies, it may seem tough but exposure to the grandkids is really not a bright idea without vaccinations so if it was me there would be no contact until jabbed

As above, you're kids are not at significant risk of covid from the grandparents. However, it's the risks associated with stupid that would concern me.

Cheers all, I’ve not plucked up the courage for an ultimatum but can see it heading that way.

Show her this thread. Or at least, igm's post, which is really all that needs to be said.

Unfortunately, for all her failings, my MIL had her jab..... So I didn't have an excuse to stop her coming round 😒

Keep in mind... people who are reluctant to get vaccinated are for the most part the victim of a hoax not the perpetrator of it. You're right to feel angry about it, but don't get angry with them as its the situation not the person that's the problem.  Broadly speaking people form opinions very easily but once its formed an opinion is a very difficult thing to budge. It doesn't matter how well reasoned your arguments are, you're on the back foot because someone else got there first.

Whatever the emotional response is to anti-vaxxers, whatever your personal feelings are with respect to your family, it may not be the most productive means of communication.

I work in a field where there is a small but significant hardcore of individuals who have refused the vaccine (this is a significant issue as it's health and social care, and it is young women who are refusing). We managed to get all but one of our reluctant guys vaccinated. It required patience and a putting aside of strong opinion. Start by asking the person to rationalise their objections, ask where they got the information from, give them options and allow time to digest those options, give lots of examples of peers taking the vaccine.

Good luck.

people who are reluctant to get vaccinated are for the most part the victim of a hoax not the perpetrator of it.

Until

today said she hoped that both I and my children (7 & 5) wouldn’t have the “experimental” product.

at which point this is no longer true. Entitled to opinions blah blah it's my own choice, yeah whatever, but as soon as they start telling others then they've crossed a line. It's dangerous, reckless and irresponsible and they need to stop it in short order.

Cheers sparks, I'll try the softly softly approach and plant some seeds before resorting to the ultimatum.

And yes Cougar, it pissed me right off during today's phone call when she expressed her hope 🤬

If she drives, ask her how she feels about using an experimental car. In reply to the puzzled response, point out that only half a million (or as appropriate to the model) or so have been made. And in response to the further reply, how many people have had the vaccine...

This vaccine is being promoted by that lovely Boris the nice man that they voted for.
Tell them if they want to die alone on a ventilator then that's their choice.
My parents are a bit older and are also set in their ways. I've long given up trying to reason with them.

due to the chances of her selfishness resulting in the grandchildren having to live with the knowledge that they had infected a grandparent and put them in hospital or worse.!!

This is key. I agree it's important to find out where her opinions have come from and try to reason her round, but while she is unlikely to kill her grandkids by passing it on, the reverse is much more likely.

My parents were struggling to stay within the social distancing rules when we could meet up last summer, we are quite a "huggy" family. I had to be strict when the kids went back to school last September, and what got through to my mum was that I didn't want my kids worrying that they'd killed her.

Parents about to get second jab, suspect discreet hugs will happen end of April.

but as soon as they start telling others then they’ve crossed a line.

it just means they believe it and they're frightened for their own well being and others. That still makes them a victim. They may be doing a bad thing but they believe they are doing a good thing and have good reasons for doing it.

They aren't even rushed vaccines. They are just accelerated. Accessing funding that usually makes up a portion of development time was made available.

Great little infomercial from Uni of Oxford here:

And that's really sad news @igm. Hope you are OK. As much as i suppose you can be.

She's old enough to remember polio and refuses the Corona virus vaccine?

Hard to have sympathy tbph.

Shite for you unfortunately.

IGM’s post brought a small tear, and then sharbait’s made me chuckle.

All our elder generations, on both my side and my kid’s mother’s side, have jumped at the chance to get vaccinated. They cover the full range of political views, class, education levels and intelligence. None have fallen for the anti-vac line, and the same is pretty much true across the UK. It’s very sad and frustrating that some still fall into it, and if, like the OP, this includes your family, then I really feel for you. You can take some solace from the fact that even they are being made safer by the high uptake amongst people more generally in the UK, even if they don’t have the vaccine themselves. We are getting something right here in the UK, this time, and pushing back against the spreading of misinformation that is sadly becoming the norm. Early in the pandemic it was far from certain that we’d get this so right. Well done UK, we can do it, see.

@Maccruiskeen +1

It’s a difficult situation good luck to the OP

They aren’t even rushed vaccines. They are just accelerated.

I was about to say something simmilar - this particular virus is a varient of a very common virus for which new vaccines are developed for each year... so they were probably halfway there in terms of vaccine development before they even started.

It's not like it's 'new' to science'. More that it's a very problematic branch of evoloution of a somewhat known virus.

resulting in the grandchildren having to live with the knowledge that they had infected a grandparent and put them in hospital or worse

I'd be pushing this line, it takes the decision out of her hands. You could try and convince her with science/daily mail articles/whatever, but I suspect the easiest approach would be the emotional one.

To those expressing sympathy thank you.

It was 14 days apart back in April / May last year in the same care home and they were at the tail end of brilliant lives.

I miss them but I’m strangely ok with it now.

But I wouldn’t wish it on others if they have the opportunity to avoid it.

Just live and let live (or die) if they dont want it then so be it?

I wouldnt be worried about children catching it, the risk is to them and that is up to them.

Even Donald Trump has had the vaccine(*). If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for the rest of us.

(*) Although kept strangely quiet about it for reasons best known to him.

maccruiskeen + another 1

There's plenty on here who'd win an internet argument, but the problem is really "how do you talk to your folks so they choose to do the right thing."
There's a few ways in, but you know them best.
With my mum, if she's minded to do something stupid then I can usually pull her round by suggesting that it's what Pritti Patel would want her to do.
In this case - reducing the national pension cost.

These anti vexer old fogeys are missing out. I got my jab yesterday and my wife today. She bumped into a friend who was volunteering and she said a couple of months ago when all the older age groups were coming most of them had dressed up for the occasion. I guess most hadn't been out for the best part of a year and they decided to make an occasion of it. That's the British spirit for me. One bloke turned up in full Tuxedo and bow tie. I'd have loved to have seen that.

Thanks all for your respective responses, will see how it goes trying to steer her round.

I find it hard to empathise with her point of view without getting annoyed instantly.

There is a risk to the kids, no one knows what the longer term effects are of having caught covid as a child. I'm not sure what's the worse risk, someone in their 70s dying a few years early after a good healthy life to that point, or someone having to live with an autoimmune condition from the age of 5

My mam's had her first one fortunately but regarding others' stances on calling out forkwittery I totally agree. It makes for some uncomfortable moments sometimes but I'm fed up of living in an idiocracy.