[Closed] Gove

A great day. I noticed he send a lackey (sp?) to the Today programme, rather than defending the decision himself.

The Rowan Atkinson character?

What a total bellend. Hate the man.

Its funny isnt it, he rushed out and condemmed everything about modern education and exams saying things had to change to make Britains education system a better place and something the world will be jealous of, yet his actions would suggest he would fail Q1 of a SAT test for a 7 year old.
When are politicians going to realise that you actually have to think through your answer to the question before scribbling down the first thing that comes into your head.
Knobs, the lot of them.

Good decision. He's sounded like a complete relic of a conservative minister from the 1980's spouting that teachers, the improving qualifications that children have been attaining and anything to do with state education are no good. The very definition of chinless tory on looks alone Amazed to read he he went to a state school and not some minor private job where he was pleased to be someone's fag.

The problem with Pob (and there are many) is that he's utterly and completely convinced of his own genius. Therefore whatever fanciful notion enters his fetid mind, is obviously the best idea that anyone in the world her ever had EVER! And must, for the benefit of everyone, be implemented immediately

And from that point on, he won't be swayed by awkward things like the opinion of experts, advice or those pesky little things... facts.

So I doubt he sees anything wrong with this biblical scale cluster-**** other than the fact that the rest of society fails to share his obvious vision, and therefore it is [i]us[/i] who are wrong

Its a n odd one

On the one hand it is good when a politiican or a human being reflects on things and changes their opinion.
On the other it was an idiotic suggestion and he is an odious **** who should be murdered to death

I will sit on the fenc eon this one.

Teachers are the new miners, haven't you heard?

You get to blame someone else and ignore your own responsibility for the fact that your child is unable to read, communicate effectively or behave in public.

he's utterly and completely convinced of his own genius

Is he on here yet?

He should be. Its his spiritual home 😉

Luckily, most people on here are in positions where they can't do much damage. Now... where did I put my crayons....

Gove: "here was some confusion in the minds of some students and some teachers between English Baccalaureate certificates and the English Baccalaureate"

Cage:
[img] [/img]

I've heard it said that he is still acting like a news editor. He likes a good headline but he's yet to realise he is actually supposed to deliver on his pronouncements now that he is a minister.

He likes a good headline

Find me a current politician that doesnt, and this is the main problem with modern politics, its all about the 6 o'clock news headlines not actually about real policies that will work.

 

Nobody wants to be remembered as the politician who abolished gcse's. But now children are required to stay in education until 18, it is only a matter of time. Clearly Gove was not enough of a man to take that responsibility.

Any chance at all, ever, that someone might just listen to the teachers as to what they might think about education?? I can't remember a single education minister who has been that revolutionary.

A great day. I noticed he send a lackey (sp?) to the Today programme, rather than defending the decision himself.

BB - consult the plebs? Are you mad? What on earth would they know?

Any chance at all, ever, that someone might just listen to the teachers as to what they might think about education

What consult with the experts done be stupid

What happens is we have a consultation excercise and the doctors [ and other stakeholders] go to school to tell them what to do then the Trust [ whilst it still exists] has a consultation excercise and teachers [ and other stakeholders] tell them whether to prioritise surgical services o phlebotomyr

Its a a foolproof consultation excercise whilst we listen too everyone - everyone being uniformed gobshites with no expertise.

IIRC they got the idea from the content of the threads on here 😛

I think he is a fine example of a modern politician. We get what we vote for and those that are not impressed by there local and national political representative should get involved themselves. These people work really hard for the common good, they get little in return for the efforts they put in to make our society better. In fact it's time that they all got a massive pay rise with limitless expense accounts. It would also help our democratic society if those that snipe from the sidelines and constantly give out negative comments were charged with being traitors and give a mandatory sentence of being asked what they had done for society. Questions to asked live on radio 4 by John Humfries(?).

He he 😆

sad thing is the amount of money they must have wasted on this, I could have had some new glue sticks with that money!!

this always makes me smile;

One board - sound idea (or do we like the idea of competition between exam boards with the benefits (sic) that bought). The range of standards across boards and types of exam adds little other than confusion at the moment. Why should we happy the this has been scrapped (I think)?

More rigorous exams - forget listening to the teaching community, listen to future employers. The current system fails to prepare students adequately for large parts of tertiary education or employment. And who is it that resists change here?

So what happens when teachers are left to their own devices rather than the constant meddling of politicians. Surprise, surprise they adopt linear, more challenging exams to test their brightest pupils (and standard exams for the rest). Their students are attractive to universities (wonder why?) and to future employers (ditto). The gap between thoae who can chose to run ediucation as they (the teachers) see fit and those who have systems imposed on them widens future. And then we wonder why the results are as they are......bizarre?

So a principals reason for opposing Gove was a fear of a two-tier system (memories of o levels and CSEs). And instead we get an ever increasing two-tier system. It makes you want to cry/give up with the UK.

So Gove clearly fails to understand the basic of change management, for sure, and he confuses things further by calling a return to essentially O levels as a baccalaureate. If we want to adopt baccalaureates (and the true system has lots of merits) why not simply adopt the international version. Well thought out, widely tested and recognised and adaptable. But no, we have to make our own buggers muddle.

I too think Gove is an odious turd, but fair play to the man today, it can't be easy to stand up in the chamber and do what he's done.
I'm sure there's been lots of politicians who've stuck to their guns even when they've known they'd got it wrong because they couldn't bear the humiliating climb-down.

his hastily thrown together plans are consistent u-turn fodder
he just likes pandering to the tory grass roots with his penchant for 600 year old bibles,50 year old exams, labours academy programme?! and throwing the word rigour around a lot.

his ultimate legacy will be less sports, an entire year of ruined gcses , alienated teachers, more faith schools and a fractured system of part privatised schooling with massive funding imbalances, at least there will be a bible with his name in gathering dust in school libraries up and down the land!

The current system fails to prepare students adequately for large parts of tertiary education or employment.

In what way? How could it be improved and whats your evidence that itrs wrong in the first place?

I shall celebrate all this twuntery with some baccanalia.

I regularly talk to both. Plus, I also watch (and am partially involved with) the successful alternatives that are already being put into place. Hence our previous "debate" about whether schools should buy/use text books that extend beyond the syllabus/curriculum!! Happy to say A_A that on this issue, despite some common interest, we will probably fail to reach agreement! Anyway, I am out of this thread.

Only a few people make me want to punch them, he is right up there on the top of the list.

Funny, most others are on this site. lols

Funny, most others are on this site. lols

No there's not! 😉

[i]No there's not! [/i]

*reported*

I regularly talk to both. Plus, I also watch (and am partially involved with) the successful alternatives that are already being put into place. Hence our previous "debate" about whether schools should buy/use text books that extend beyond the syllabus/curriculum!! Happy to say A_A that on this issue, despite some common interest, we will probably fail to reach agreement! Anyway, I am out of this thread.

So no evidence then just your opinion that what your involved in is best?

anagallis_arvensis - Member
In what way? How could it be improved and whats your evidence that itrs wrong in the first place?

It isn't about GCSEs, but i just published this if you want to discuss the issue:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03098265.2012.763114

Thanks for the link Capt (although I only have access to the first page). Interestingly, this is nothing new. I studied in Scotland and continued geography for two years despite it not being my core subject. Even then our first year prof, threw back all our first essays in disgust at the general lack of ability to write academic essays!! We had essay writing tutorials and then were told to write them all again - properly!

free version http://nrl.northumbria.ac.uk/9255/

Thanks very much CJ - very interesting research. Page 11 rang many bells - the (emotive?) description of spoon-feeding at GCSE and A level (and the consequent anger described by students) and the narrow range of reading required and expected. A_A and I have discussed (!) this in the past. I think that IB goes some way to tackling some of this and some schools have also introduced compulsory research essays as an extra in the 6th form which all makes sense from your analysis.

Do people still talk about regional geography? I thought that died in the 1980s?

Rusty Spanner - Member
Teachers are the new miners, haven't you heard?
You get to blame someone else and ignore your own responsibility for the fact that your child is unable to read, communicate effectively or behave in public.

+1

Well said.

teamhurtmore - Member
Thanks very much CJ - very interesting research. Page 11 rang many bells - the (emotive?) description of spoon-feeding at GCSE and A level (and the consequent anger described by students) and the narrow range of reading required and expected. A_A and I have discussed (!) this in the past. I think that IB goes some way to tackling some of this and some schools have also introduced compulsory research essays as an extra in the 6th form which all makes sense from your analysis.

Do people still talk about regional geography? I thought that died in the 1980s?

Depends on the teacher, and what they learnt at university. It is pretty difficult to for teachers to keep up with what's happening in academic geography, so some simply revert to what they know. Or worse haven't updated their teaching properly since they started. From what our students said that was rare, however. What was more common was regional geography-style approaches to what was taught - e.g. encyclopaedic and descriptive coverage of contemporary issues.

I'm pleased to say Simon and I have been consulted by an exam board and a couple of organisations involved in supporting geography teachers on this, who was sympathetic. It is important not to under estimate the constraints teachers/schools are under - pressures from government means anything other than teaching to the test is very difficult.

Depends on the teacher, and what they learnt at university. It is pretty difficult to for teachers to keep up with what's happening in academic geography, so some simply revert to what they know. Or worse haven't updated their teaching properly since they started

Just how much can a map of the uk change in any century. 😛

Just how much can a map of the uk change in any century.

Don't say that to people losing their homes on the E coast due to erosion. 😉

stevewhyte - Member

Just how much can a map of the uk change in any century.

Possibly quite a lot, at this rate

teamhurtmore - Member

Even then our first year prof, threw back all our first essays in disgust at the general lack of ability to write academic essays!! We had essay writing tutorials and then were told to write them all again - properly!

I work for a pretty good university... We've recently made our academic writing courses mandatory for first years in many subjects. It used to be an optional extra.

To be honest, it's not new, there was a case for doing it 15 years ago when I was studying there.

Rusty Spanner - Member
Teachers are the new miners, haven't you heard?
You get to blame someone else and ignore your own responsibility for the fact that your child is unable to read, communicate effectively or behave in public.

+1

Well said.

I assume you meant to replace the word 'Teachers' with 'Parents'?

Hmmm, and all this talk of new university students being not 'fit for purpose', does my head in. Talk of lazy teachers not moving with the times particularly irks me, coming from university lecturers who churn out the same didactic lecture year after year one hour a week, get their postgraduates to do the tutorials, then set the same exam questions over and over again often telling the students exactly what the questions will be, and these rigorous exams are based on a dozen weeks of learning at most.....
Yes, it's schools who aren't offering value for money, not the 9k a year unis.

Lets not forget that most dont do a-levels and most dont do degrees and the exam boards set exams and passing them is what students want to do. Maybe uni's should consider who they offer places too? Dont have time to read the paper now but i will.