MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
very nice indeed
GM has changed his shirt since the Harry's Garage one posted in the resto-mod thread the other day.
In some ways its awsome in others im not convinced (but since not in the market for one my opinon doesnt matter).
The fan bit is slight misdirectional gimic to hark back to the F1 fan car. The fan actually reduces seperation the the agressivly angled floor & other aero aids on rear of the car. Which is brilliant but i thought GM was better than clickbaity gimics.
The Harrys Garage vid is very good and detailed i just cant like the back end of the thing.
Only making 100 of them so will soon be £1m and not driven like designed for though the customer who wanted an aditional engine just to look at is my type of petrolhead.
In some ways Koenigsegg are producing interesting cars/ tech, the free valve technoligy is mindblowing basicly infinatly variable valve timing and profile you could also use it to mitigate pumping loss on deactivated cylinders.
Only making 100 of them so will soon be £1m
£2.6m plus tax RRP
GM has a brilliant way of making infinitely small and complicated details sound obvious, and make me feel even more stupid...
Absolutely love it and everything it stands for - natural aspiration, V12, manual gearbox. The 48V system and fan are a bit gimmicky, and frankly it needs a boot to fit a bike in, but otherwise it's lush. And also priced so very few will really see much use 🙁
Very, very cool car.
I'm a big fan of the weight obsession and a big fan of the original F1 and of the Rocket.
I will look forward to seeing and hearing one, maybe, one day :o)
Love the fact it is updated version of my favourite ever car. Hate the stupid fan.
Yep, I was just about to put my name down for one for that fan is a deal breaker
Fan is awful, back end is awful.
Rest of car looks like a Chinese knock off of the original f1.
The engine sounds ace though.
I like the idea,and I'm a big fan of manual gearboxes, v12's and Gordon Murray, but this is not a good 2nd album
Only making 100 of them so will soon be £1m
£2.6m plus tax RRP
Yeah it was the bit where he kept going on about people buying them to drive that threw me.
Did you all watch the vid? Fan sounds awesome - I don't think of F1 designers in general and Murray in particular being a fan of gimmicks.
Yep watched the Harrys Gararge one.
The fan is like and active S duct on a F1 car.
What it does is good, even produces thrust! But the styling and references to fan car are all to hark back to the Brabam BT46, which is a gimik. F1 is full of them old liveries, references to old designs..
A good film on preventing flow seperation
Yeah it was the bit where he kept going on about people buying them to drive that threw me.
Seems crazy doesn’t it, but there are so many stupid rich people about these days and it should be a relatively low risk gamble.
The original F1 was ‘only’ £540k or so, £100k more than the Jaguar XJ220 but they struggled to sell the 65 road cars they actually made - production was supposed to be limited to 105, 5 pre-production cars and 100 road cars, they sort of fudged it in the end and included the 40 or so race cars and got to 106. Jag sold 270 XJ220 even if they took a decade to do it and they were seriously discounted at the end.
But the world has changed so much, Lamborghini just sold a load of Aventadors with a horrible body kit they actually called Sian for £2m a go, Bentley have just made and sold 10 Conti convertibles with custom bodies that are just horrific to look at for £1.7m
Don’t get me wrong, if that car didn’t have the Gordon Murray name on it, or if GM hadn’t so famously designed the F1 and all that went before, he wouldn’t sell 1, a tiny company working out of an industrial estate selling cars for £3m, I don’t think so.
Buyers will expect the T.50 to share the same sort of values as the F1, when they finally (4 years after release to sell the last few) sent the F1 down the track with the limiter off and it did 240mph people realised what it was - the value shot to £1m, within a few years it was £6m, then £10m, now a ‘normal’ F1 will be £15m and a ‘special one’ (unusual spec, XP car or LM) could be double that.
Buyers will be fairly confident that they can do a few thousand miles a year in their T.50, especially as they’re supposedly less eye watering to maintain and it will likely out-perform Warren Buffet financially.
That said, it may have two problems with that
1, the McLaren P1 which was supposedly the follow up of the F1 is now 7 years old and changed hands for about 1.1m, with a 800k price when new, it’s not kept pace with inflation yet.
2, It won’t be *that* fast. Okay, that’s daft, it will be insanely fast, stupid fast, but even with the drag reducing fan and all that it won’t be as fast as the F1 top end, 220ish which of course is insane, but not headline grabbing, also because he doesn’t want hybrid, DCT gearboxes or AWD it probably won’t be as quick off the line as the P1, LaFerrari or 918 that will be 10 years old when it launches. It will possibly be fast around a track where top speeds and 0-60 are pretty meaningless, but even billionaires are vain show offs who want a faster car than their mates.
It won’t stop him selling all 100 (if indeed they’re being entirely honest about 75 being already sold) but it might stop it appreciating like the F1.
From the vids and podcasts I’ve consumed about this car I’ve never once thought “gimmick” about the fan.
GM comes across completely un-gimmicky, obsessed about weight saving. I can’t believe it’s not on the car for anything other than performance purposes.
The original F1 has a fan on- which was fairly useless according to GM and often overlooked because of the headlines the car won on its other features
Fan is awful, back end is awful.
Rest of car looks like a Chinese knock off of the original f1.
You can definitely tell it's a Gordon Murray car. But as much as anything it's probably a reflection of what he sees as the pillars of good car design - central seat (helps with selling in/ outside the UK), no big aero addenda, and lightweight. Combine those with safety regs and there's probably only so many ways to make it look.
Bit like road bikes tbh - now the big manufacturers have realised dropped seatstays and tear-drop shaped tubes offer the best performance, many of the top-end road bikes look very similar
GM says several times in the numerous videos that it's not about performance, it's about being the ultimate drivers' cars (as was the F1), so it's not going to be the fastest car out there, and I'm sure everyone that's signed up for one knows that. It's being sold on GMs reputation, plus it's a lot cheaper than an F1!
The fan is there because it helps with the aero and means the body isn't covered in wings and the various things you see on other supercars. Obviously, this is all just GM's idea on what a supercar should look like, but he does have a bit of a good record on car design.
The latest collecting cars podcast has GM as a guest and he goes into good detail about this/his career/the F1 ect. I prefer it over all the other silly hypercars about these days.
I think it looks rather nice but I think I'm quite sold on flappy paddle gears so I'm going to stick with a Ferrari 820 Superfast and save £2m. Once I've won the lottery of course.
If you won £58 million last night, have both! 🙂
It won’t stop him selling all 100 (if indeed they’re being entirely honest about 75 being already sold) but it might stop it appreciating like the F1.
I think the low number will still help with appreciation over "mass" produced cars like P1, La Ferrari, 918, Carerra GT (although admit I thought they made more P1s that 375).
Pigani seems to be increasing well and for example 140 Zondas were made.
However, none of these cars are typically bought to drive and will stay in a garage for their lives but then I would rather buy one to own it to just look at than buy a load of shares or rental property...
No tax or capital gains on profit selling a personal car. Same as art, I think (i am not a taxman)
However, none of these cars are typically bought to drive
well, in the case of Pigani, there's some of their cars that can't be driven on the road (or many tracks for that matter) as they break (sound) , or don't conform to regulations. (lights indicators etc)
but even billionaires are vain show offs who want a faster car than their mates.
Nah, the folk who buy into the GM philosophy aren't those folk.
the McLaren P1 [ -] changed hands for about 1.1m, with a 800k price when new, it’s not kept pace with inflation yet.
That's because they're both ugly and complex...The F1 (despite the eye-wateringly short service times) is actually a pretty straightforward thing, it's old tech, under a body-shell that's relatively ageless in design.
If you're curious about the Pagani Zonda, Harry did an episode on why he sold his.
If you won £58 million last night, have both! 🙂
Sadly I didn't, so it's the Passat for now.
Doesn’t like big or carbon wheels. GM rides a 26er
Luckily most owners won't actually be driving their T.50 very much. IME, the "venn diagram" for
a) Rich enough to spank a cheeky £2.8 million on a car
and
b) Skilled enough to drive a manual, >600bhp/tonne car at any speed
has a vanishingly small overlap zone...... 😉
b) Skilled enough to drive a manual, >600bhp/tonne car at any speed
unless you're a buffoon it isn't that difficult to drive a powerful manual car day to day. At a guess you wouldn't be able to drive any normal car day to day very well either.
Where’s Surfmatt when we need him?
Er, there's a world of difference between driving a typical road car, even quite a fast one (lets say 250bhp/tonne) and one with over 600 bhp/tonne. You can get yourself in a world of trouble extremely quickly, and simple things that perhaps might not matter (like missing a gear or finding neutral by mistake) can, and do, cause people to crash.
Cars of this level of performance are so fast, that the average motorist, even skilled and sensibly ones can get themselves into more trouble than they can get out of. Yes, sure, more automated cars can also be crashed, but in a panic, you are much more likely to mess up say a gearshift in a car with a peaky, powerful engine, than one in a car where you just pull a paddle and the car gets the next gear for you.......
First engine start of the test mule:
Basic rule for car purchase - can I carry a bike inside. No? Then it's crap.
Looks like I'll have to give the T50 a miss, That's a million or so saved that I can now spend on bikes... 🙂
course you can! both wheels off, wheels in one passenger seat, bike in the other. Helmet and shoes and tools behind the front seat. Bish bash bosh!
Or buy a towbar-mounted bike rack of course 😀
Yeah it was the bit where he kept going on about people buying them to drive that threw me.
Yep. You'd think with his creative engineering solutions and lightweight approach that he'd actually would be able to produce a car at a cost that many could drive.
A sort of mx5 type affair. Mid engined, aero, no fan (!), driver focused. I think you could get close to Mclaren F1 performance for less than 10% of the price.
But, he doesn't.
Great car but you can't dictate what people do with something they spend millions on that you also tout as an investment!
What's the "kudos" with owning one of these? If it's some kind of vehicular Top Trumps then surely the 331 mph SSC Tuatara comes out on top for around $1 million less?
for less than 10% of the price....But, he doesn’t.
Because the finances you'd need to produce that sort of car are way beyond the scope of a few blokes in a shed on a Trading Est. It would cost approx the same to develop, and you'd have to sell a metric shit tonne to make your money back, all the while making 2-3% on each car sold, while dealing with servicing, breakdowns warranties yearly updates and changes and so on and on, it would be financially crippling, see: Aston Martin, TVR, Bristol, etc etc...
He is working on a smaller ‘affordable’ car too isn’t he.. the T43. Whether it actually happens or not is another thing. ‘Affordable’ is another way of saying ‘compromised’ then you’ve not achieved the goal of a completely no compromise drivers car. It won’t have a bespoke engine, or the proper bespoke suspension, bespoke carbon fibre construction with a smattering of other high tech materials, etc. He’ll do a bloody good job of it you can be sure as Gordon cut his road car teeth on such cars back in the day for Lotus.
Bit with this car being no cost option it truly is no compromise. That and the F1 was such a pivotal car and time and technology has moved on from that so we are all curious as to what the art of the possible is as is he.
The tuatara is not valid comparison. It’s more of a competitor to a Bugatti. This thing is a completely different concept. Gordon has said all along it’s not about top speed top trumps. The tuatara might be fast in a straight line but shouldn’t be faster through bends or as satisfying drive. In any case the target market here are people who can afford a 20-car garage of Hyper cars and its exclusivity. Nobody can buy a T50. You’ll be approached with the opportunity to own one.
Because the finances you’d need to produce that sort of car are way beyond the scope of a few blokes in a shed on a Trading Est. It would cost approx the same to develop, and you’d have to sell a metric shit tonne to make your money back, all the while making 2-3% on each car sold, while dealing with servicing, breakdowns warranties yearly updates and changes and so on and on, it would be financially crippling, see: Aston Martin, TVR, Bristol, etc etc…
aerial?
TVR's finances were always pretty ropey and people loved to look down on them but they were producing their own engines, you could get in to a T350 or a Tamora for less than 40k, and they were great cars to drive with zero competition in their price range for the performance. shame PW sold out when he did but i imagine it was an offer too good to refuse.
Some details on the track version, the T50S.
And the road version is sold out.
Seems one customer bought the road version and the track version.
Yeah, I didn’t want to ruin the road version on track days.
😈
Well I guess one is for fun and one will be wrapped up in shrink wrap and tucked away in an air conditioned garage somewhere never to be seen or enjoyed as an investment. Shame.
I wonder how many have gone to enthusiasts and how many to investment buyers
Given the price, the short supply and the potential investment based on the what F1 prices have done I would say it will be 100% investment buyers.
Probably could have made the car drive like an Austin Maxi and those buyers would have still bought it.
IF it could do what the F1 did there's no reason at all not to drive it.
Not the best looking car ever but if I had the funds available I'd have 1 (or both) in a heartbeat. Nothing comes close to the purity of design and engineering.
New cheaper Gordon Murray car.
Gordon Murray reveals the secrets behind his new T.33 supercar & why he loves V12 engines - YouTube
Cars don't really do it for me and I thought that the T.50 looked a bit daft with all of the bits hanging off the back, but the T.33 is a very nice bit of kit. I especially like the attention to detail: The lights, the luggage, the air box etc...
Cheaper
All things relative.
I love that rear view of the T33. It evokes thoughts of an Alfa Romeo for some reason but when I then look at the 8C or 4C it is not really that similar. Lovely haunches though
I ride past his new office on one of my lunchtime loops - still not seen any sign of a car in there though.