[Closed] Gone against everything I said before and leased a car.

I had a Kia Soul.... it had no soul.... The seat was made of Ply i think.... or concrete... either way, 2 hours was hell.

what mileage have you had?
I had an octavia with 16k over 2 years. Vastly underestimated my annual mileage. I've had it since August 16 and just breached the 8k this month. Anything going forward will be 12k I reckon.

I have just done the same thing.

I bought an 05 golf for about £3k back in August. Since then it has cost me a fortune in bills and finally died the other day. Given that the TCO is about a grand per month, a lease started to look more and more like a sensible option. Whichever way you look at it, cars just cost.

My new Seat turns up tomorrow and I can't wait!

You pay a huge premium to increase the mileage limit. Quite often it's more cost effective to pick a lower annual mileage and then pay the per mile excess (5p/mile or something).

I've lost 7k in 4 years on the mazda

Nice thing about buying is that you eventually stop having to pay for it.

Nice thing about buying is that you eventually stop having to pay for it.

Nice thing about buying is that you eventually stop having to pay for it.

Only if you keep the car forever and nothing goes wrong!

Gone the same way a couple of years ago - I estimated that a leased Touran TDI 2.0 Match would be cheaper to lease than buying a 2 year old one that had been farted in, when all parameters are taken account of (MOT, servicing, tax, opportunity cost, warranty etc etc). At £5,100 total over 2 years inc servicing it has proven to be the case by a long way. Lease prices have gone up over the past 6 months though so maybe the pendulum is now swinging the other way...

[quote=wrightyson ]according to we buy any car I've lost 7k in 4 years on the mazdaIs that an accurate assessment of resale value?

Appreciate that molgrips. Always stumped the cash up front for my cars never had any finance before. Just thought I'd leave it in the bank for a change and give this a whirl. £146 quid a month for a 23k car.
Went to the dealer on Saturday and had a sit in it, very nice cavernous boot and a fair few gadgets. He wasn't very chuffed mind as their deals were no where near.

Leasing is great but bikes and mud in the back take their toll and come the time its going back, could be a problem..

Otherwise, it makes perfect sense

Only if you keep the car forever and nothing goes wrong!

Even if it goes wrong, you're still ahead.

I spent £400 on the Prius about a year ago. But it's been 6 years since I stopped paying for it!

Is that an accurate assessment of resale value?

Leasing is great but bikes and mud in the back take their toll and come the time its going back, could be a problem..

Transit van on the drive too 😉

I spent £400 on the Prius about a year ago. But it's been 6 years since I stopped paying for it!

Then can you give us a tip for the 3:30? 🙂 - my last main car cost me the most I'd paid outside of my youth (Elise how I miss thee) and has cost me a bloody fortune to keep on the road.

Now work is an 80 mile round trip when I have to go in I'm thinking similarly - 5K on a hatch of some sort, or a lease and accept it as a cost of living... the lease and changing up every couple of years might make more sense.

Where did you look for deals, around local dealers or Ling Cars and the like?

Good to hear OP. This is exactly the situation I was in 5-6 years ago.

Randomly I met a bloke whilst we were camping about 6/7 years ago. Leasing was becoming more mainstream and that's what he did. Brother in law went on to use him a few months after and has now had three cars off him with zero problems. I just rang him last week. I think he will pretty much try and beat any deal out there if he can, really nice bloke and straight down the line.
Claris vehicle solutions based in Sheffield area.

As I say 146 month, 1300 deposit 10k miles.

Then can you give us a tip

Buy a Toyota 🙂

Nice thing about buying is that you eventually stop having to pay for it.

[i]We have a Mazda 3, bought exactly 10 years ago, new, for £16,000. Over the years it has cost us around another £2,600 in servicing, MOTs and a couple of slightly more expensive repair bills so I reckon a lifetime cost to us of around £18,600. We have just been offered £1,000 for it on trade-in so that makes £17,600 net cost. It currently has 50,000 on the clock.

So over ten years, that is £147 a month. I have just had a quick look and I could get a Ford Focus for £432 initial payment + £144 a month (based on 5k per year) so that's £162 total per month and I would never be in a car more than two years old and have pretty much hassle free driving (apart from potential for damage charges on return).[/i]

Your mistake was buying it new... Had you bought it 2 years old the calculation would be quite different.

is 5K considered typical mileage?

I think the more miles you do, the less sense leasing makes....

I do around 26k miles/yr and last time I looked into leasing agreements a mid-spec Focus diesel was gonna cost me around £400/month.

My in-laws are on their second Kia through the motability scheme; last one was a C'eed hatchback which they had no issues with. Current one is a Sportage, that they have only just picked up & they like it even more at the moment. They seem like solid cars with a decent spec.

molgrips - Member

Your mistake was buying it new... Had you bought it 2 years old the calculation would be quite different.

Indeed. He'd have bought a car with an unknown history, and now be running a car thats an extra 2 years old. So unless you have a crystal ball you cant say if there would have been an increase or decrease

Buy a Toyota

is 5K considered typical mileage?

I meant 5K cash purchase of a car vs. lease - typical mileage is normally around 10K miles but its one to work out and slightly overcook on a lease, as getting it right upfront should be cheaper even with wiggle room.

I sometimes look at leases, but I need 20k miles pa and for anything I'd actually want that mileage kills it.

Although looking recently, there was an S-Class Merc for just under £1k pm. Spending your own money buying one of those and doing that mileage would be financial madness so the lease was really quite "cheap" I guess.

is 5K considered typical mileage?

Your mistake was buying it new... Had you bought it 2 years old the calculation would be quite different.

Depreciation costs, but decreases. If you buy a new-ish car and keep it ten years or so, you gradually 'pay' less and less depreciation. Whereas if you lease a new car every 3 years or so, you lock yourself into paying the top-whack of depreciation for ever and ever. That's how I see it.

If I'd leased/PCPd my Alltrack, after 4 years I could sign up for another deal, or pay £8000 to keep the car.

As it is, I borrowed the money, bought it outright, and made (smaller) payments over 4 years. Next year, I can keep the car for free (our plan), or sell it for £8000.

That's how I see things anyway. Surely I am right?

Depreciation curve shapes have evolved over the past few years, at least when looking at transaction prices (price lists have become meaningless). Because the brunt of new cars are financed/leased, the franchised networks have much tighter control over values up to 3 years. So if you can buy at a large discount (including finance contributions that can easily be triggered by short term "fake" borrowing), then churning through new cars every year can be very cheap. I sold my 12 month old M135i at £175 depreciation / month.

Conversely some of the heavily yield managed lease deals can return incredible results if you pounce on them and are flexible about what euro box you get.

[s]Leasing[/s] [b]buying, owning, leasing or PCP[/b] is great but bikes and mud in the back take their toll and come the time its going back,[b]or you are selling it[/b] could be a problem..

Had a really bad run of a couple of cars peaking with an Octavia estate which cost me £2k in 5 months (and had a huge list of repairs needed including cam chain/sensor) for a car that had full service history, low owners etc.

Watched the lease deals and picked up a 1.6 diesel Civic for £188 per month including the deposit for a 8000 miles per year, two year deal. It has been running 58mpg (70+ on some trips) for a fairly short commute. Loads of toys, plenty of room and actually really good at fitting a bike. It does exactly what I need at a fairly low price. Also got a Transit for bike/weekend duties.

It is my first lease and the car has been great. Suspect I'll go back to buying cheap next time though and hope the bad run is over!

Will you get £8000 for it? Curious as to whether they price in what they call "equity". In the real world there is no equity in most cars. Just less depreciation right?

The mazda I bought was ex lease and had just been handed back. I bought it February 2013 and have had it 4years. It lost 14 k in its first 3 years and that's the reason I'd never looked at new cars previously. It had high mileage for its age 60k but I knew we'd even that out as we do about 7k a year.
I've a feeling the kia will haemorrhage money in the two years I own (borrow) it, way more than I pay in and that is the secret to leasing, as told to me by the guy I'm having it off some 6/7 years ago when I first met him.

If you buy a new-ish car and keep it ten years or so, you gradually 'pay' less and less depreciation. Whereas if you lease a new car every 3 years or so, you lock yourself into paying the top-whack of depreciation for ever and ever. That's how I see it.

I think this nails it personally. The only time that PCP makes sense is if you want to change your car every three years (or whenever the agreement is up). You're financing a lot of very expensive depreciation though by doing that, but then if being in the latest model is important to you, it's probably a bit cheaper than buying it.

I was curious to know how much my Volvo has cost me over the five years I've owned it. Taking only the cost to buy and non service/consumable charges into account (because I think you pay for these still on PCP?), the total outlay so far has been £18,300, which is £14,800 for the car and £3,500 to fix the power steering and rear trailing arm bushes.

The car had 22k miles when I bought it, was three years old and cost about £35k when new.

The car is worth around £4500 now; so far then it's cost me £233 a month if you take the residual value into count.

I still think you paid a staggering amount for that fix, but I realise we did this on another thread!

so far then it's cost me £233 a month if you take the residual value into count.

probably about the same it would be costing you on a PCP then

You know you might be right about that.

[Edit] actually no not even remotely. A £35k car financed over eight years and with the same residual value would cost £320 a month even without interest. With interest it would be more like £390.

I still think you paid a staggering amount for that fix

Yes, it was 25% more expensive than if I'd gone to non main dealer Volvo specialist. But the work is guaranteed for a year, it was done within three days and I had a loan car while it mine was off the road.

You know you might be right about that

I researched it to death end of last year before entering my first PCP... I was moving from a Company Car to a monthly allowance, so a 4yr, highish annual mileage, low deposit PCP, was the most cost effective way of sticking with a newish big comfy family car, in my situation. Everyone's situation is different though. Wife has a 6 yr old Kia Soul which was bough on HP and fully paid off 2 yrs ago.... It will be getting traded in before the 7 yr warranty runs out, and will probably be on another HP deal, as on 8k miles per annum, keeping it for longer makes sense, particularly with 7 yr warranty.

I'm just about to push the button on a Skoda Superb 2.0D SE Technology estate. £226pm + £778 deposit, 8k pa. That's way less than the depreciation would be on new and having done the sums it not widely different from buying 2 years old and selling after 2, with none of the hassle of trying to source the car.
Current car is an Octavia Scout which was on a similar deal although I notice that lease prices have gone up a lot since I ordered that 2 years ago. Then I could have got a 5 Series for £280pm, now it's more like £450.

Prius has still cost me an average of £133/month even after 11 years. It was nearly new though. Passat has cost me £111/mo not including all the repairs.

Looks like a current deal would be £280 ish pcm for a comparable Passat with 15k mpa. Saving £170 pcm over 90 months is £15,300. Even I haven't spent that much on repairs 🙂 Downside is all the hassle, and the fact I now have a 10 year old car.

I can't get my head around people spending so much money on cars, mine have cost me peanuts!

sbob - Member

I can't get my head around people spending so much money on cars, mine have cost me peanuts!

The place I bought my car from wouldn't accept peanuts....I tried to upgrade them to dry roasted but they weren't budging.

mine have cost me peanuts!

I can't get my head around people spending so much money on cars, mine have cost me peanuts!

I can't get my head around people spending so much money on cars, mine have cost me peanuts!

Do you really want to drive 1500 miles to the Dordogne and back with two young children, four bikes and a metric ton of luggage in a cheap car?

I wouldn't want to do it in a crappy car, but I'd do it in a cheap one.

Cheap doesn't have to mean rubbish.

Whilst I can see the logic in PCPs for many indidvduals something makes me think it's some sort of giant pyramid selling scheme heading for a 2008 style house price/financial bubble crash.I heard that the average age of UK cars is 6 years-where nearly all new car sales are almost exclusively financed by the PCP financial vehicle(no pun intended),whereas in France and German it's 8-10 years and in the US 12 years where they don't really use them ,yet.It's like the problem of production has been solved but consumption can't keep up, so new ways to pay for things have to be invented.Surely there will eventually be a saturation point? IANA financial adviser 🙂

Do you really want to drive 1500 miles to the Dordogne and back with two young children, four bikes and a metric ton of luggage in a cheap car?

Replace the destination with Scotland, 3 children and a caravan and that's exactly what our family did in the 80s.
£500 caravan, £300 car. No problem at all.

We have a 2004 Mazda 6 estate we paid £2400 for with 44k miles on it. That's half the PCP deposit alone on the same vehicle new (roughly, I did check) and all we'd get would be a few more toys and a choice of colour. For the 6000 miles a year we do in a car it would be pissing money up the wall to get a new car on PCP.
We can afford it right enough but I'd rather spend it on something else like paying the mortgage off early so we can work a 4 day week.
Parking a new car on the drive every other year is just keeping up with the Jonses. The rest of us let you muppets pay the depreciation...... 🙂

It'se the problem of production has been solved but consumption can't keep up, so new ways to pay for things have to be invented.

Leasing only works because there's a good market for the second hand vehicles at the end of it. So somone's buying them.

Parking a new car on the drive every other year is just keeping up with the Jonses.

I was with you up until that point. New and/or nice cars are intrinsically nice things to have. They are nice to drive, nice to be in.

Now you may choose to prioritise other things, as I do, and you may believe people who buy such things are foolish or rich, but it's not fair to assume it's always because they are vain enough to want to look posh to other people.

bails - Member

Have they really?

[IMG] [/IMG]

Last car was purchased for £500 and I had it for five years. None consumables spend was £200 over those five years.

Don't go putting people off PP, we need those secondhand motors. 😆

"[i]Have they really? Or does it just feel like that?[/i]"

Only a fag packet calc, but my car stands me about £45/month over the last 40 months & nearly 50k miles. I'm currently doing 400+ miles per week and a lease car would be costing a LOT more.

Last car was purchased for £500 and I had it for five years. None consumables spend was £200 over those five years.

Hindsight is a blessed thing but it isn't why people spend money on cars. Some people buy piece of mind (and some buy status).

@wrightyson what Mazda have you got, email in profile

Let's see...

I bought a 4 year old C-max for £6k and have kept it for 6 years. It's now worth about £1k. Other than routine servicing, I've had two big bills of about £800 total (cambelt and suspension arms) that would not have happened with a lease car. Let's say £1k extra to include MOTs.

£6k over 6 years is £83/ month.

I was with you up until that point. New and/or nice cars are intrinsically nice things to have. They are nice to drive, nice to be in.

Very little better than our Mazda or the Focus we had before it though. We've got electric things to press, climate control, cruise control etc and we can drive a 700 mile round trip in comfort.
New cars are less 'nice things to have' than they are 'nice things to [i]show you have[/i]' and we're all doing the same speed sitting in traffic anyway. 🙂

Do you really want to drive 1500 miles to the Dordogne and back with two young children, four bikes and a metric ton of luggage in a cheap car?

I drove 400 miles to the Gambia, [u]across[/u] the sahara, with all the camping and living stuff (as well as fluids for the car) we needed for 4 weeks, in a car that cost £100 (bought unseen) which I'd chopped the roof off (wanted a tan).

best thing I ever did on 4 wheels..

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/123/382700965_38d54e305a_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/123/382700965_38d54e305a_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zPrEv ]towing the blazer[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/5lab/ ]Hugh Lunnon[/url], on Flickr

geetee1972 - Member

Hindsight is a blessed thing but it isn't why people spend money on cars. Some people buy piece of mind (and some buy status).

It's only perceived piece of mind.
When it leaves you stranded at the side of the road, your £20k+ VAG is only as useful as Ken Livingstone at a "Don't mention Hitler" convention.

Yes, but if you are stranded at the side of the road, you won't be dreading a four figure bill at the same time.

I've been driving 12 years, have always bought cars outright (max £4500) until the current one. I do about 20,000 miles per year, half on work time for which I get 45p per mile.

My last car cost me £2500 in depreciation over 2 years alone, £400 on tax, £100 on MOT's, probably £500 in repairs/servicing (conservatively) and did about 35-40 mpg. So to run over 2 years (very roughly) £3500 PLUS fuel. Used at least £200 a month in fuel, a further £4800. So £8300.

Currently 12 months into an 18 month business contract hire deal. Small diesel car averages nearly 60mpg, I don't pay any tax, or repairs, or MOT's. Mileage stayed the same. £200 per month. So, you can say £4800 if it was over 2 years, PLUS fuel. That's about £150 a month in this car - so £3600 over 2 years, giving a total of £8400, oh, plus one service, £100 odd.

So I'm what, a hundred quid or two worse off over 2 years (obviously only for that period taking into account depreciation on my old car which would have plateaued), but I've got a brand new car to drive around in, and no hassle. Also, it's not really costing me that (anything in fact) as over 2 years my employer will pay me £9000 in mileage, tax free.

Free motoring. But, obviously, if you had a really cheap, really economical car that wasn't going to depreciate or cost you loads in repairs you could actually be making significantly. I begrudge paying garage fees for basic servicing and repairs, so used to do it myself, but can't really be bothered anymore.

The other bonus is that it leaves my cash in the savings account to try and earn some interest on or do fun things with.

if you only spend £500 on a car to start with, you won't be dreading a four figure bill either - the most you're out of pocket is £400 (cost of car - scrap value) 😀

I agree with you about the merits of older cars

New cars are less 'nice things to have' than they are 'nice things to show you have'

... but I don't agree with this.

When I'm better off, I'll buy a better car. But it won't be because I give a shit about what people think about it. The opinion of anyone who cares what car I have isn't important.

It's only perceived piece of mind.

This is of course very true. It's much like relative perceived value/quality since these are rarely absolute terms.

My last car cost me £2500 in depreciation

My car has [i]cost[/i] nothing in depreciation. It cost money to buy, and it costs money to run. I might get some money when I sell it, but that's part of a different transaction.

Depreciation is not an out-of-pocket cost.

I get whar you're saying, technically (pedantically), but it is incidental to, and a monetary factor of car ownership and the running thereof.

I buy car for £4000, two years later I sell it for £1500. Either way the £2500 is no longer mine. It's comparable financially when considering leasing.

but it is incidental to, and a monetary factor of car ownership and the running thereof.

No I disagree. My car is depreciating, but I don't have to actually find that money from my salary each month. It's not a cashflow issue. If I was living out of one huge pot of money then maybe, but I'm not, I'm on a salary.

When you lease you are paying the depreciation out of your monthly salary, but not when you own the car. Yes, it's the same money conceptually, but it has a different effect on your monthly budget.

There is a concern in the industry that manufacturers are leaving themselves open to a drop in car prices with billions of £ out in rented cars that they still own.

The way I would look at is either they've got their sums wrong or you could do better taking that risk yourself.

Yes, it's the same money conceptually, but it has a different effect on your monthly budget.

Whether you pay the cost of depreciation up front by buying a car outright or over time by leasing does make a difference to the cash flow but you will always pay the cost.

The effect is still the same overall, pretty much.

You either buy a car with cash and spend the ownership period refilling your savings so you can buy another one.

Or you buy on finance/with a loan and pay off a bit of that each month.

Or you lease, and pay that every month.

Interesting that none of the older cars seem to have needed any time off the road, rather than just some cost. That was what irked me about my last car, not the bills just the extra hassle if the car is off the road.

Interesting that none of the older cars seem to have needed any time off the road, rather than just some cost.

Before I signed up for a lease I created a spreadsheet of cars and running costs. None of those were over £10k so I'm not usually in the new car market.

The leased Civic is costing me £204 per month including two services. That is right in the middle of the spread of cars ranging from a Lexus LS400 costing £22.50 per month over four months and an Octavia costing £450 (with more bills coming) per month over 5 months, next worst was a Mondeo @ £285 per month over 14 months. The Civic is also cheaper on fuel than anything else I've ever owned.

The right second hand car will work out cheaper than a lease, but if that packs in after 6 months and you have to buy a new one or throws up a big repair bill it probably won't.

Watching the deals and jumping on something cheap can mean worry free motoring for a fixed term with a set amount coming out of my bank account every month and running around in a new car.

And PCP is not leasing, that is PCH. There's no balloon payment on PCH and no option to pay off the balance.

I had a look at leasing & couldn't believe the cost if looking at something nice eg BMW or Mercedes estates. So it got me thinking. How about buying something, say 2/3 yrs old with a bank loan. Let's say £20k. Pay the bank loan over say 4/5 years. That way somebody else has taken the new car depreciation hit, your paying off your asset and left with something you own and can sell. Plus if the worst were to happen eg lost job,flog the motor and pay off the loan. Anybody gone down this route?

I know your taking a risk as it's not brand new. However, realistically these days cars are well made. Just look at how many German cars you see with 100k plus on the clock. All still fetching good prices on autotrader

I know your taking a risk as it's not brand new. However, realistically these days cars are well made.

but if that packs in after 6 months and you have to buy a new one or throws up a big repair bill it probably won't

So put the money you save against leasing in a separate savings account. That'll cover you if there is a big bill, or if there isn't - bonus.

The effect is still the same overall, pretty much.

Only if you have savings, and if you change the car regularly.

Last car was purchased for £500 and I had it for five years. None consumables spend was £200 over those five years.

Surely 200 quid over 5 years only just covers the cost of the MOTs. What about tyres, oil, filters, brakes, labour etc?

had a look at leasing & couldn't believe the cost if looking at something nice eg BMW or Mercedes estates. So it got me thinking. How about buying something, say 2/3 yrs old with a bank loan. Let's say £20k. Pay the bank loan over say 4/5 years. That way somebody else has taken the new car depreciation hit, your paying off your asset and left with something you own and can sell. Plus if the worst were to happen eg lost job,flog the motor and pay off the loan. Anybody gone down this route?

Only if you have savings,

change the car regularly.

As I just said - £1500 for fixing a faulty sensor on a 3.5 yr old Audi here.

£2,500 to fix a manifold problem on my A6 identified by sensor and "computer check" by main dealer, then quoted £1,800 as a special offer. Then fixed for £60 by an independent as an actuating lever had "come loose" (the car had recently been served at the main dealer and the indy and I where both agreed that they had caused the problem)

Pete - you do make me chuckle!!

Parking a new car on the drive every other year is just keeping up with the Jonses. The rest of us let you muppets pay the depreciation

I really like out ten year old Octy, but it did cost a few grand getting the AC fixed a few years ago.
We're due to pick up our new personal-contract-hire car in a few weeks, and really looking foward to it. You kind of forget that a new care IS a nicer place to be. Yes, you pay for that, but you pay for everything really.

DrP (four day a week worker 😉 )

I had a look at leasing & couldn't believe the cost if looking at something nice eg BMW or Mercedes estates. So it got me thinking. How about buying something, say 2/3 yrs old with a bank loan. Let's say £20k. Pay the bank loan over say 4/5 years. That way somebody else has taken the new car depreciation hit, your paying off your asset and left with something you own and can sell. Plus if the worst were to happen eg lost job,flog the motor and pay off the loan. Anybody gone down this route?

I know your taking a risk as it's not brand new. However, realistically these days cars are well made. Just look at how many German cars you see with 100k plus on the clock. All still fetching good prices on autotrader

This is what I will be doing next, only because I wand something moderately quick. I currently lease an x-trail for £300/month 15k per year. When it goes back after 2 years it will have lost about £15k. I will have paid 8k. No brainer, but it is very car/deal specific.