[Closed] Go Greek for a week.

p.s. ment to post this on the chat forum, oops

you try working in 30+degrees at 55

What as opposed to working in -5deg at 55 outside!!

Hmmm- maybe you should look at the real numbers - Ernie posted them before but the IIRC greek average age to stop working was significantly higher than Germany

So they work harder than the Germans, so that will be why the counrty is doing so well. Give me a break.

Watch the program then get back to me.

god what a bollock straining program.
cant stand more than a minute of it.
Is this really the state of UK documentary work these days?

What utter bollocks.

FFS just flicked over to what used to be the Old Dame of documentary programming: Panorama, and it's just as bad. How stupid are their target audience?

Thank god for File on Four and Moneybox on R4.

Program is shite, however the facts aren't. It's well known that the whole country runs on backhanders

Only watching cos some of its based in my hometown. Used to get my haircut in that hairdressers*. Ahhhh nostalgia.

*well the gents bit next door.

Hmmm- maybe you should look at the real numbers

What? - they don't really have a crisis, it's all just made up by the gutter press and idiots on bicycling forums?

thank **** for that - I was starting to believe they were in trouble

up[link - they have issues for sure but there is also a lot of myth. Ernie had some very good numbers that showed they did not retire early on the whole.

It has helped explain why they're in such a state as I couldn't really grasp how they'd got there. Top corrupt EU country is quite a title.

At the end of the day its not Greeces fault, its the EU for thinking that Greece would be ok in the Euro. Or at the very least why the Eu did not enforce their rules.

And yes the program was pretty crappy, but its got to break it down into easy chunks so numpties on cycling forums could understand it.

It's just the right wing press, I've seen the figures and the Greek economy is perfectly sustainable. It's all being driven by ideology not necessity.

so is it right that a greek civil servant can retire, draw a pension, then die and pass that pension in full to his unmarried daughter?

I dont understand the 'going greek for a week' part of this programme. couldn't they have just done an unadulterated documentary on how corrupt the greek system is/was? it just seems as though they have added these people into the prog just so they can call it go greek for a week and really doesn't add anything to it.

soobalias - Member

so is it right that a greek civil servant can retire, draw a pension, then die and pass that pension in full to his unmarried daughter?

Dunno. Is it right that I pay as much towards the state pension as everyone else yet my life expectancy is less than average?

yes.

go on, ask me another...

🙂

how do they know how big the Greek Shadow economy is? i'm sure it is as big as they claim (if not bigger) but how do they get seemingly accurate figuer on its size?

Go greek for a week and don't sit down for the following week...

I am sorry the show failed to potray an accurate picture of Greece it just show one aspect it only contributes to propaganda against Greece . You cannot blame a whole nation for all the wrongdoings of EU.German companies have being involved in the biggest financial scandals in Greece. Nobody is innocent. The brits will not pay for the bail outs anyway!
It failed to show that the average person in Greece gets paid the lowest salaries from all the European counterparts. It forgot to mention that people in the private sector work for 700 euros around 10-12 hours aprox without lunch break. There are 2 sides on every story . Imagine if everyone overgeneralizes and claim i.e. on this basis that Brits are looters &thieves it we go back to August Riots. Besides in the UK we have paid taxes for many people who cheat to get benefit. The world people is not a perfect place we have to realize this and programmes such this do not contribute in anything but hatred!

I like the Greek mentality ... 😆

The brits will not pay for the bail outs anyway!

we are founder members of the IMF

The IMF is not a registered charity you know. Any loans it agrees to, it expects to be repaid with interest. And under conditions that it decides, which includes dictating government policy - irrespective of general election results.

Dreadful program. Managed about 10 minutes before I gave up.
Echoing Stoners point, this is embarrassing if it's what passes as a documentary nowadays.

Here we go. Poor put upon Greece, bullied by the Germans and the big bad banks. Give me a break.

Anyone see Paxman tearing that Greek tourism minister apart on Newsnight last night?

"Why are Greeks so dishonest?"

"No really, you are a country full of liars aren't you?"

etc etc

No, but I might check iplayer later now 🙂

What you see in Greece is partly the result of having a 2 party system, where people vote for A so that B doesn't get in, regardless of if A represents their real interests - so after a while you get a parliament of identikit droids intent on lining their own pockets and without a clue how to solve a problem, or the decency to do the right thing and resign.

Sounds a lot like somewhere closer to home ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0176k8v/Newsnight_07_11_2011/

from 26:40 ish by the look of it. not watched it yet. got popcorn

Pot kettle etc.

I think that greek minister acquits himself rather well and paxo doesnt cover himself in much glory...again...

After going to a wedding in Greece last month, I was amazed at the level of tax dodging.

The wedding was in good hotel and the bar bill, rooms and food for 60 guests had to be paid in cash, in 99% of petrol stations wouldn't take cards only cash, all the restaurants I went to from the small roadside ones to posh upmarket jobs were all cash.

Basically everyone wasn't paying tax, as they didn't see the point.

This article also explains it quite nicely: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010

I thought the Greek minister made a pretty good fist of things, came across really well. But then he got hit by a piece of classic Paxman, big haymaker.

Remember how the Greeks got to this point everyone. The last time they had an election Papandreou came in, his guys went through the books and they found a huge hole in the national finances, the previous lot knew they had spent way more than they could afford but wouldnt admit it.

Lets cook the books to get meet fiscal targets to get into the Euro. Spend spend spend like your in a Gordon Brown economy then demand money after money.

What a ****ing shit useless and pointless addition to a economic zone they were.

Kick them out.

I think that greek minister acquits himself rather well and paxo doesnt cover himself in much glory...again...

Yes, he seems to be getting more argumentative with age.

Bit of a self-caricature.

Spend spend spend like your in a Gordon Brown economy then demand money after money.

What are you talking about Hora? do you just randomly type words with your massive chin, and tiny brain then hit 'send post'

I'm going to bum you to death RichC

Quote from the BBC website (they admit its stretching the truth);

There are more porche drivers in Greece than there are poeple decalring an incomre over euro50k!

Remember how the Greeks got to this point everyone. The last time they had an election Papandreou came in, his guys went through the books and they found a huge hole in the national finances, the previous lot knew they had spent way more than they could afford but wouldnt admit it.

That's Conservatives for you, they are the same the world over, and Greek Conservatives are no exception.

how do they know how big the Greek Shadow economy is? i'm sure it is as big as they claim (if not bigger) but how do they get seemingly accurate figuer on its size?

Apparently with the "dymimic and currency demand method" - nope, I have no idea either

What I don't get is why no-one is up on fraud charges. The previous administration got Goldman Sachs in to cook their books. Thus making them look credit-worthy when they clearly weren't. Then borrowing shed-loads of money they could never have a hope of paying back. It was calculated, and pre-meditated

If me or thee pulled a stunt like that we'd be done for fraud. Pure and simple. Yet I have not even heard the merest suggestion that anyone be charged with anything. Perhaps if they hauled somebody into court it may dissuade other people pulling similar stunts. At the moment, like the bankers before them, the people who caused this whole mess are walking away not only scot free, but having done quite nicely out of the whole charade

That's Conservatives for you, they are the same the world over, and Greek Conservatives are no exception.

Right Ernie thats exactly what happened here. We all remember spending getting out of control under the Tories and Labour stepping in to clear up the mess.

Whats the Leninist view on the way ahead for Greece and Italy?

Sorry mcboo, I thought you were making the point that the previous Greek Conservative government had created the economic mess that Greece is in today. And I was just agreeing with you. But it seems I might have got that wrong.

What was the point you were making then ?

And why is there a comparison with Britain.....are you saying that we are in the same mess as Greece ? Did the last UK government mess up the economy in the same way as the last Greek government ?

Oh my point? That it is no-one's fault but the Greeks alone. No-one forced them to spend and no-one forced them borrow. I dont think Socialist and Conservative labels really mean a whole lot when the political class is colluding in a national ponzi scheme.

Oh my point? That it is no-one's fault but the Greeks alone.

So why did you make that point by saying :

[i]"Remember how the Greeks got to this point everyone. The last time they had an election Papandreou came in, his guys went through the books and they found a huge hole in the national finances, the previous lot knew they had spent way more than they could afford but wouldnt admit it."[/i]

❓

It's very clear that you are blaming the previous Greek government - not "the Greeks".

Oh believe me, I'm blaming the Greek people too. So are all the Greeks in my office.

What is the Communist solution remind me?

Whats the Leninist view on the way ahead for Greece and Italy?

What is the Communist solution remind me?

That's quite pathetic you know. It places you firmly at the intellectual level of a red-neck Teaparty supporter.

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Really? I love Barack Obama.

What is the Communist solution remind me?

ernie_lynch said

I generally describe myself as a Leninist

So I asked

Whats the Leninist view on the way ahead for Greece and Italy?

So ernie has a massive strop, calls me a redneck then trawls up some pathetic garbage from the very depths of internet-hate with a woeful swing and miss at the Straw-Man.

Really? I love Barack Obama

And yet your 'politics' remains at the level of a semiliterate tabloid-reading redneck. Do you want to rise above silly childish taunting, or is that as much as you can manage ?

I guess you needed to resort to that sort of quite pathetic response, when you realised that you had completely contradicted yourself, and that you hadn't fully understood who was responsible for the economic policies which led Greece into this mess.

And well done 5thElefant for your contribution in keeping debate on STW firmly in the playground.

🙄

trawls up some pathetic garbage

Let's remind ourselves again what [u]you[/u] said :

[b][i]"Remember how the Greeks got to this point everyone. The last time they had an election Papandreou came in, his guys went through the books and they found a huge hole in the national finances, the previous lot knew they had spent way more than they could afford but wouldnt admit"[/i][/b]

It is absolutely crystal clear who you are blaming for the Greek economic mess - the, quote : [i]"previous lot"[/i]. Yes you are right, the last Greek Conservative government holds a lot of responsibility for the situation in Greece today.

Unfortunately for you, you attempted to use the situation in Greece as some sort of bizarre stick with which to beat the last Labour government in the UK with.

Having realised the stupidity of your comment, you then engage in calling me a communist, which is completely irrelevant to anything being discussed.

I win ! 😀

Oh yes, a modern day Cicero that's you! Who amongst us.....!

.....but let me ask again....

What is the Communist/Leninist solution to our problems?

.....but let me ask again....

What is the Communist/Leninist solution to our problems?

Nice McCarthyist smear. Well done.

McCarthy made groundless acusations correct?

oh my days..

I take it the OP isn't aware of the euphemism...

in greece they call it turkish...
like that which is spanish in italy is cuban in spain..gets complicated.or that which is french in england is not what is french in spain..

Oh so it was nothing to do with the awful corrupt crunts at Goldman Sachs et al eh?

If you believe the propaganda spitting out of mainstream newspapers and television channels then you deserve that great fat cock rammed up your jacksie that is surely coming your way sometime soon as more of the real wealth creating jobs are lost to China......

Our only industry of the last 15 years or so was house prices.

Banks lend money they do not have.

God bless the Greeks. Viva la revolution.

I also thought it was pretty poor but persevered to the end.

Something that struck me was the attitude of the consultants wife who was mortified by the "financial advisor" and the apparent "grubbiness" of the whole thing but seemed happy to take a £70k salary as her husbands assistant. Or did I miss something?

Im enjoying this article http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/greeks-bearing-bonds-201010#

that richc posted earlier.

Its worth noting the author, Martin Lewis, is he who wrote Liars Poker and The Big Short two very engaging reads about the financial sector, its players and failures.

It's also telling that it was published over a year ago.

That's a fascinating article. The TV program puts the greek economy in a distinctly favourable light in comparison.

Right Ernie thats exactly what happened here. We all remember spending getting out of control under the Tories and Labour stepping in to clear up the mess.

I agree: Labour substantially reduced the enormous national debt they inherited in 1997.