[Closed] Glasgow Rangers

Does that really matter? My concern is whether a badly managed company should be allowed to survive or not?

I know it makes me a bad person, and it's a pretty craven thing to wish for, but I reeeeeally hope they go out of business. Horrible club, with a suspiciously high percentage of horrible fans. Rangers and Celtic are part of (only part though, mind) the reason Scottish football is so utterly crap at the moment.
I'm a Caley fan, to declare my interest.

Hope it does, might make footballers think about their overpaid wages for working 90 mins a week.

i tis too importnant to Scottish football fo rthis to happen

Celtic would be trying ASAP to leave th eleague for obvius reasons

DS football is much more than just a business- like a true capitalist you know the price of everything and the value of nothing 😉

I suspect I'm not the only Manchester resident who'd probably raise a glass to their demise. If no other city had their delightful fans hoisted upon them, I'm sure they wouldn't miss them. They're animals, quite frankly.

They'll still be animals of course, just animals with fewer reasons to leave Glasgow

I’m not Scottish but you get the vibe there is very little sympathy with their plight. Even the media who generally love to get on the side of the fans seem a bit passive towards the current events.

No, the revenue that the other clubs get from having Rangers in the league would dry up after Celtic join the English leagues. I can't see any of the TV companies shelling out for the rights to watch the smaller clubs.

I don't think Scotland would be better off either, the numpties that want to cause trouble will just find another excuse to act like morons. See last years riots.

Junkyard - Member
i tis too importnant to Scottish football fo rthis to happen

There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

Why should a team/club/business that has systematically been cheating for god knows how long, be allowed to carry on?

Of course they could always apply to join an English league if they go into liquidation!

Matt

binners I'm sure residents of other cities would say the same about Manchester United fans!

If they can't sort their finances out then they go out of business, same would happen to any other company that can't keep their finances in order. Unless of course the govermnet step in to use tax payers money to support it.

Whilst the right thing to do may well be to kick them out the spl this won't help any other club in the spl so I can't see that happening.

Apart from 'normal' folk losing their jobs I could give a shit really.

There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

Matt what does these arguments say? Genuine question not being sarky

DS football is much more than just a business- like a true capitalist you know the price of everything and the value of nothing

I don’t ever see Celtic / Rangers being allowed in the English system. To many issues to resolve to allow it to happen: what league would they go into (EPL? Are they good enough?). What happens if they get relegated? Who do you kick out to allow them in (already to many clubs in England).

Is there a Football league in Northern Ireland ? Perhaps they could just move over there, and take all the fans with them. Or maybe the middle east, or I know perfect, the Falkland Islands.

Celtic / Rangers being allowed in the English system? Er, no thanks. Enough bigots about as it is.

Is there a Football league in Northern Ireland ?

Yes, but the PSNI are already busy with sectarian violence so they can stay put.

Celtic could replace Portsmouth when they finally go bust, next week. They'd never get out of the Championship into the Premiership though. Actually ... Portsmouth were destined for the drop [i]again[/i] anyway. You could look forward to travelling south for glamour ties like Oldham Athletic, Wycombe Wanderers and Yeovil Town 😉

I say, bring Celtic to the English league and swap them for MK Dons.

Over half of those that attended a football match over the weekend in Scotland were at ibrox to see Rangers. That is generally how it always is when one of the Glasgow teams are at home. Outwith those two Scottish football is in terminal decline with low attendances, no money and crap players. Take away a large chunk of the tv deal and the subsequent cut in sponsorship, take away the away attendances (etc) and would Scotland even be able to support a fully professional league?

All this is made even worse due to the situation at Hearts - they are very vulnerable with their current ownership and level of debt.

It is a bit of a myth that if you then take Rangers (or Celtic) out of the equation then other clubs will somehow pick up this support and thrive. These fans will be lost and to think otherwise shows a misunderstanding of what it means to be a football fan.

Losing Celtic and Rangers would do Scottish football the world of good. Bring it on.

Conclusion of discussion at work between me (SYFA coach - level 1, trying to persuade my 5-yr old to support the local team rather than Celtic), a season-ticket holder for a Div1 club who used to audit the the books of big Scottish clubs, and an occasional Hearts fan.

Sorry, but just want my rant...

I live in Glasgow & have done since I was six. Raised in a Catholic school, brought up around Celtic & Rangers and have tried my best not to get too involved. I have friends & colleagues who are die hard fans from both sides. Went to two Celtic games a few years ago & enjoyed the experience of a live game, but couldn't get myself into supporting them as I felt embarrassed by the sectarian crap surrounding it all.

I put it down to the way I was raised by my folks and wasn't thrust into supporting one or the other. I don't follow Scottish football because of this feeling of embarrassment (in old firm fans), and it's a shame as I feel there's lots of great smaller teams in our leagues suffering because of this. And if I have kids, I won't be immersing them in the old firm culture.

So, for what it's worth, I couldn't give a monkeys about Rangers or Celtic....in the long run, I think we'd be better off without them. I'm no expert but I think support in smaller teams is what's needed.

I did notice last night that it was hell of a busy outside Murray Park last night on the way to Mugdock. It was heaving with press vans, even heading home around 11pm....obviously due to the current situation, but never seen it like that before, even when they signed someone new.

🙂

Stack – that is the way I think I would feel if I was from Glasgow. A big chunk of the old firm fan base is an embarrassment (as is the current owners of Rangers), I would not want to be associated with it.

BlindMelon - Member

There are some interesting arguements that suggest this would not be the case and that removing one or both of the old firm would actually have a positive effect for the other clubs in the league and scottish football as a whole.

Matt what does these arguments say? Genuine question not being sarky

The guys who suggested it have looked at the sporting and financial performance of the other clubs when one or other of the old firm have been poor (not a very regular occurence, I grant you).

They conclude that the money from old firm 'visits' can be made up by as few as 1000 more fans per week over the course of a season. Very easy to get if there is a fighting chance of the club actually winning something or getting into Europe.

Extended runs in cups and Europe, again benefit the clubs to an extent which could easily match, or exceed, the contribution from the OF.

I don't have the numbers but it is suggested that in recent years money from Sky to the SPL has been greatly reduced and that the OF get the lions share (I would guess on an appearance type deal). If it were taken away from the other clubs it may not be significant as attendances may actually go up as a result.

My own thought is that without teams being able to buy players in as a quick fix, they may have to concentrate on producing homegrown. This is already happening in the English Championship, my own club's youth team are on a particularly good run. The more clubs in Scotland can do this the better for the clubs (nothing fans love more than a local bopy) and the National Team.

I will see if I can find the link it was a really good analysis, although very focussed on a few years back.

Matt

A minority of old firm fans are head bangers but there are alot of decent ones too.

If the spotlight was shone to the same extent on the minority of fans that follow other clubs as it is in the old firm then no-one would come out of it looking good. In the last couple of years Motherwell and St Johnstone have had incidents of fans giving racist abuse, Aberdeen fans sing songs about another group of fans dieing in a stadium disaster, Hearts fans have had sectarian chanting. Even Scotland fans wouldnt come out of it well with some of the English chants.

There is a major double standard at play that singles out old firm fans as being somehow unique in what they get up to but they really aren't anything special.

If they did go under would there be more money around to be invested in other sports?

Zedsdead - Member
If they did go under would there be more money around to be invested in other sports?

Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post

Certainly be more money for Inverclyde primary health trust to spend on things other than casualty.

The current TV deal relies on there being 4 old firms games a season. You can tell by the reluctance of the other clubs when it comes to league reform (16 team spl would apparently reduce income by £20m!). Without Rangers the TV money will be drastically reduced, the European coefficient will drop even further and Scotland will become more of a footballing backwater than it is already imo.

Very true Zedsdead. Surely Scotland has the perfect climate for.....

[img] [/img]

BEACH VOLLEYBALL!! 😀

In the interests of balance, apparently men play too. Apparently

[img] [/img]

The guys who suggested it have looked at the sporting and financial performance of the other clubs when one or other of the old firm have been poor (not a very regular occurence, I grant you).

They conclude that the money from old firm 'visits' can be made up by as few as 1000 more fans per week over the course of a season. Very easy to get if there is a fighting chance of the club actually winning something or getting into Europe.

Extended runs in cups and Europe, again benefit the clubs to an extent which could easily match, or exceed, the contribution from the OF.

I don't have the numbers but it is suggested that in recent years money from Sky to the SPL has been greatly reduced and that the OF get the lions share (I would guess on an appearance type deal). If it were taken away from the other clubs it may not be significant as attendances may actually go up as a result.

My own thought is that without teams being able to buy players in as a quick fix, they may have to concentrate on producing homegrown. This is already happening in the English Championship, my own club's youth team are on a particularly good run. The more clubs in Scotland can do this the better for the clubs (nothing fans love more than a local bopy) and the National Team.

It is a different era now. One of the biggest problems Scottish football faces is the amount of money on offer in England. In the early 80s Aberdeen or Dundee United could bring through youth and build their team and progress year on year. Now if a promising youngster comes through they will sell before they have even fully established themself in the team. The young player will go to the premiership or championship, immediately earn about 5 - 10 times his salary - and that is often them just being signed for 'potential' rather than to go straight into the first team.

Happens even with the old firm. Islam Feruz, who was (maybe still is) the biggest Scottish youth prospect hadnt even made a competitive first team appearance for Celtic before being lured to Chelsea on bigger wages. That is bigger wages to play for their youth team, he would probably have made his breakthrough to the first team in Scotland this season.

(Think the max an individual club gets from the TV is about £2million and the minimum is £850000. So there is a gap but it is not that much, the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen etc will be somewhere between the two figures.)

It's the current system which has led to Scotland becoming a footballing backwater, if indeed it is. It doen't offer a way out merely more of the same.

Edited for latest post: I agree the smaller clubs really struggle to get full value for young players, but it is viable. Kyle Lafferty went to Rangers for 3M, which kept us in cut price full-backs for over a year.

Matt

Football in Scotland must be at an all time low in terms of reputation. Other than Celtic clubs seem to get weaker and weaker the quality lower and the dominance even greater. The result is I have absolutely zero interest in the Scotish title race.

If it was a more open contest (a bit like the English Championship) then it creates real excitement and the TV companies / sponsors would benefit from that.

The whole thing needs a rethink!

as long as football allows clubs to avoid paying taxes then this will continue. as soon as football says... to play with us next season you have to have published a full and complete set of accounts at year end and have no outstanding bills then football will be clean and simple.
but when as in rangers case a guy 'buys' a club by 'borrowing' the money from a company who he promises to give the next 4 years tickets sales to in return how much more dodgy can it get. leeds utd has never revealed the individuals who owned/ owns the club. how can that be right?

Absolutely bang on! I'ma Man Yoo fan and could weep looking at our clubs finances. We were always profitable, never lived beyond our means, famously 'the biggest club in the world'. And now look at us. Saddled with vast debt acquired by some yank carpetbaggers, and now apparently the clubs responsibility! All while they rip hundreds of millions out of the club in 'fees'

How the hell this state of affairs can be legal is utterly beyond me

This state of affairs is maintained by the fans, and in particular the armchair fans. TV money is the cause, cancelling Sky subscriptions is the solution.

Sport should be amateur and business kept out of it.

Never going to happen of course, that's how it[i] should[/i] be.

Been a footy fan since the days when Sir Alf left the Town to go off and win the world cup. The Premiership was for me start of a slow decline in my enjoyment in the game. Thats the point where having more money than sense became de riguer in the game. I stopped having any interest at all in the proceedings in 2002 when it became apparent to me that no amount of good management business or sporting wise could overcome the money issues. Hopefully the wholesale demise of well supported clubs will bring sense back into it.

Wound up? They should get kicked out if even a quarter of the recent revelations are found to be true.

When will the hilarity end! . SFA say craig whyte is not a fit and proper person!

SFA in "No shit Sherlock" announcement.

Waste of everyone's time - might as well have staged an inquiry into whether the Pope wears a big ****ing hat. A more pertinent enquiry might be whether the vultures waiting to pick over the carcass are fit and proper - Dave King and Paul Murray, for instance. As ex-directors, they are deeply implicated in the whole sorry mess.

This is the perfect storm for The Rangers - well explained here:

http://rangerstaxcase.com/

The SFA will turn a blind eye to King and Murray if it means they can get through this season.

[b]Stirling Albion [/b]

The only team I'll make the trip from Yorkshire to Scotland for

The SFA will turn a blind eye to King and Murray if it means they can get through this season

Yup.

A minority of old firm fans are head bangers but there are alot of decent ones too.

If the spotlight was shone to the same extent on the minority of fans that follow other clubs as it is in the old firm then no-one would come out of it looking good. In the last couple of years Motherwell and St Johnstone have had incidents of fans giving racist abuse, Aberdeen fans sing songs about another group of fans dieing in a stadium disaster, Hearts fans have had sectarian chanting. Even Scotland fans wouldnt come out of it well with some of the English chants.

There is a major double standard at play that singles out old firm fans as being somehow unique in what they get up to but they really aren't anything special.

Lots of sense there Omar.

I suspect I'm not the only Manchester resident who'd probably raise a glass to their demise. If no other city had their delightful fans hoisted upon them, I'm sure they wouldn't miss them. They're animals, quite frankly.

They'll still be animals of course, just animals with fewer reasons to leave Glasgow

I read a recent freedom of information piece recently which correctly stated that there were more Man U fans arrested when you lot came up for the CL qualifier that season, but carry on.

I don't think Scotland would be better off either, the numpties that want to cause trouble will just find another excuse to act like morons. See last years riots.

I think you'll find the riots were actually in England, not Scotland.

Rancid club and equally rancid fans and no i'm not a Celtic supporter. If this has been going on for years then strip them of those titles as the money they generated from playing in the champs league etc was gained by devious practises. I hope they go to the wall have to change there name and start again in Division 3 where they will get a doing from elgin city.

nobeer - as a manchester resident (who supports neither red nor blue) I can tell you that the behaviour of the thousands of badly behaved rangers fans at the uefa cup was shocking

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1958314/Uefa-Cup-Dog-bites-Rangers-fan.html I feel sorry for the dog

I read a recent freedom of information piece recently which correctly stated that there were more Man U fans arrested when you lot came up for the CL qualifier that season, but carry on.

nobeer - as a manchester resident (who supports neither red nor blue) I can tell you that the behaviour of the thousands of badly behaved rangers fans at the uefa cup was shocking

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1958314/Uefa-Cup-Dog-bites-Rangers-fan.html I feel sorry for the dog

So do I , poor dog had to be put down after that.

Sesoamagh77 , Your mob are no better .

Football has become more and more a law unto itself in recent years - and there's only one driver behind that: MONEY. No point making examples of Rangers and Pompey etc - nothing's going to change. The game has become too big with the stakes monumentally high in terms of financial reward (and loss). Fans and staff will always play second fiddle to players and creditors when in trouble - so much so it's a joke.

As a United fan I f^&*ing hate Rangers and would love to see the club disappear off the face of the Earth. But it employs something like 175 staff, most of whom have a job that sees them pay the bills and put food on the table. They're the people I care about. Are they going to find it easy to get another job? Possibly not. Are the players? Yes, of course they are. They're forever in the shop window with no worries about this month's mortgage.

Personally I'd like to see them f&*k off and reform in a different guise down in the lower Scottish leagues, but retain the staff. Can't see that happening though.

And don't even get me started on the Glazers 👿

I once went to see Montrose play Queen's Park at Links Park, back in the 90's.

One of the best matches I've ever been to:
The bloke on the gate let us out at half time to have a pint in the social club, attendance was 180 odd and we got to have a chat with most of the players and the manager after the game 🙂
Great fun and a superb antidote to big league nonsense.

As for Rangers, I'm sorry but I sincerely hope they go out of business.
I despise their sectarian bigotry, the behaviour of their fans in Manchester was bloody disgraceful and the attitude of most of the people involved with the club gives many neutral observers a legitimate reason to despise football.

Good riddance.

stanfree - Member

Sesoamagh77 , Your mob are no better .

I'm not saying nothing happened, clearly not, the behaviour of some Rangers fans in Manchester was abhorrent. I'm just saying that every club has it's scumbags, indeed, English football fans are in no position to criticise anyone.

There's only one team in Scotland who have ever had to play a game behind closed doors due to fans behaviour, against Rapid Vienna in 1985 IIRC. I'll let Seosamh up there tell you who that was 😉

Rangers (hopefully) going is only half the problem,especially as they will be back in one form or another.Of course, seosamh77 may want to loosen his balaclava to allow him to think how attractive his side are to Sky without people being able to watch the disgusting spectacle that is an old firm derby 4 times a year. Despite the obvious relish in the demise of Rangers,(can't blame them for that) what next for Celtic? They rely on the TV deal and European football,both of which are interlinked. Without their evil twin,it will be harder to reach the lucrative group stages.
We have Celtic in the cup at the weekend, I look forward to the IRA chanting and being called "Orange Bastards" by the morons unaware a) we were called Dundee Hibernian until 1962. b)It's tangerine,not Orange. Of course I won't take my son as I don't want him exposed to the crap that either half of the bigot brothers spout,but hey; as either half of the old firm will tell you, Scottish football would be a backwater without them......A much nicer place as well.

If anything, Rangers fans improved the centre of Manchester. You can't polish a turd as they say, but you can cover it in wee in the bowl, to mask the smell.

^ Duckman

By all means, shelter Duckboy from the harsh realities of a schooling by Scottish football's only remaining superpower. As a parent that is your prerogative. He might want a last glimpse of Jonny Russell though before he moves on to bigger and better things in the Hoops next year. 😉

Celtic's share of the pittance Scottish fitba gets from Sky is a fraction of the club's turnover, compared to its matchday income. If Sky were to pull the plug or renegotiate it is the smaller teams who'd feel a greater impact.

I noticed the wee teams are meeting sans Celtic this week to discuss life in the post-Rangers landscape, assuming Karma has them in its crosshairs after years of financial doping and some Zombie Rangers outfit starts from scratch at the bottom of the Third Division.

What kind of concessions would a United fan be looking to extract? I would imagine a bigger share of the bawbees Sky doles out would be high up the agenda. SPL expansion? Shared/pooled gate money? End-of-season play-offs between the top few teams for the Championship? Something pretty radical will need to be done to rebalance the competitiveness of the SPL with only one behemoth of a team in it.

There's only one team in Scotland who have ever had to play a game behind closed doors due to fans behaviour, against Rapid Vienna in 1985 IIRC. I'll let Seosamh up there tell you who that was

by the morons unaware a) we were called Dundee Hibernian until 1962.

He might want a last glimpse of Jonny Russell though before he moves on to bigger and better things in the Hoops next year.

PFFT...Your evil twin couldn't have him and nor can you, you have no chance of competing with the English wages on offer.

I would expect my well run team (total debt 2.3M) to want to expand the league to ensure we get to pump the bankrupt neighbours a couple of times a year. That full house would make up for Rangers, without the cleansing dept having to do a Sunday shift.Thankfully United cut their cloth accordingly when the Setanta deal fell through. Our players are on managable basic salaries but very a good win bonus.

^ Duckman

By all means, shelter Duckboy from the [s]harsh realities of a schooling by Scottish football's only remaining superpower[/s] having to skip over the empty wine bottles and pools of urine on the way to the ground.

FTFY

Doh,fair one about the name change I was writing that at approx 5am...Could you define where we come from though?

^ Duckman

By all means, shelter Duckboy from the harsh realities of a schooling by Scottish football's only remaining superpower having to skip over the empty wine bottles and pools of urine on the way to the ground.

You could always move out of Dundee. 😀

Football, especially Scottish football, never fails to reveal the inner moron.

Stirling Albion
The only team I'll make the trip from Yorkshire to Scotland for

fatboyslo - give me a shout when you do! (I'll have 5-yr old Thump with me)

mcboo - Member

Football, especially Scottish football, never fails to reveal the inner moron.

🙄

You could always leave the "morons" to it and find a thread on a subject which provokes something beyond name-calling from your demonstrably superior intellect.

StefMcDef - Member

^ Duckman

By all means, shelter Duckboy from the harsh realities of a schooling by Scottish football's only remaining [s]superpower[/s] [b]club with ideas above their station[/b] having to skip over the empty wine bottles and pools of urine on the way to the ground.

You could always move out of Dundee.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

I have, old firm fans must think that people pish in the closes everywhere, they don't;it's just you lot.

Joking apart, for all the fun you are having just now, Celtic will feel a cold wind from the demise of Rangers. I can't see Sky paying for Scottish football without the Derbies; also it will be harder for you to get into Europe each year with the qualifying rounds. The financial knock on means the standard will slide even more and that is before the increased revenues you get from old firm games is taken into account.

I know a squad of insufferable bams from Carnoustie, family friends from way back, who support Dundee United. They stay with my folks when United get to Hampden at Cup finals. I don't extrapolate from them being bams that there are no sensible Dundee United supporters.

I never pished up closes or puked in fountains when I followed Celtic away. All clubs have percentage of eejits who follow them. The bigger the barrel, the more bad apples. The Buckie-on-the-bus brigade who follow the teams away from home are still a minority. They have an embedded culture of doing what they do that will take a while to eradicate and has as much to do with Scotland's vexed relationship with The Drink as it has to do with Celtic or Rangers. The sectarian attitudes have been legislated against. As with something like the law on seatbelts, I would hope that what was once seen as acceptable behaviour to large numbers of people will gradually, once outlawed, become a taboo.

Any readjustment of Scottish football post-Rangers will be a levelling down, not a levelling up, at least in the short term. I can live with that - it's more important that justice is seen to be done, otherwise the Scottish game becomes even more of a laughing stock. It should be seen as an opportunity to consign to history what has been a dysfunctional set-up and start afresh.

Sky invest money in covering smaller leagues like the Blue Square Premier or even Rugby Super League, which has smaller viewing figures than Scottish football, yet gets a more generous TV deal. They aren't going to pull the plug completely.

On getting into Europe, Scottish football's co-efficient is dwindling anyway and will hardly have been helped by recent capitulations to the likes of Malmo, Slask Wroclaw or FC Sion. Having said that, Scottish clubs have competed better than might be expected in the Europa League in recent years.

As a fan of Celtic, which has something like the eighth-highest home attendances in Europe, I don't think that an expectation of winning the league every year and competing in either the Champs League or at the very least the Europa League counts as "ideas above our station".

PS: Bantering aside, I hope Jonny Russell stays where he is doesn't follow the Scott Allan trail to the dizzy heights of West Bromwich Albion reserves.

🙂

I once went to see Montrose play Queen's Park at Links Park, back in the 90's.

Went to watch my team Partick Thistle play a pre season friendly against Montrose in the early nineties, was class, the home fans went on to the pitch at half time for a game of 3 and in...proper football!!

I never pished up closes or puked in fountains when I followed Celtic away. All clubs have percentage of eejits who follow them. The bigger the barrel, the more bad apples. The Buckie-on-the-bus brigade who follow the teams away from home are still a minority. They have an embedded culture of doing what they do that will take a while to eradicate and has as much to do with Scotland's vexed relationship with The Drink as it has to do with Celtic or Rangers. The sectarian attitudes have been legislated against. As with something like the law on seatbelts, I would hope that what was once seen as acceptable behaviour to large numbers of people will gradually, once outlawed, become a taboo.

The financial knock on means the standard will slide even more and that is before the increased revenues you get from old firm games is taken into account.

A big part of the problem with Scottish football is the way that Rangers' spending since the late 80s has distorted the balance of power within the SPL. Before David Murray initiated his spending spree with the appointment of Graeme Souness, the SPL had a number of clubs that competed on fairly level terms - Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Celtic were all capable of taking points off each other as a matter of course, and Rangers were playing catch up at that point. Since then, Rangers have effectively priced everyone apart from Celtic out of contention, and even they came perilously close to ruin before Fergus McCann stepped in and restored some sanity to their financial position. Along the way, the habit of buying in players from abroad has impeded the development of youth football in Scotland; a problem that is only really being tackled now. It's worth bearing in mind that Alex Ferguson, the last manager to bring a European trophy back to Scotland did so with a team of Scottish lads, many of whom were 'home grown' through Aberdeen's youth system. The fact that he's continued to have success with a similar approach at Man U should speak volumes about where the cash should be going in Scottish football.

I fully appreciate Rangers are a big part of the history and traditions of Scottish football, but the actions of their management over the last 20 years have wreaked havoc with Scottish football, and it would be good to think that the current crisis at Ibrox could pave the way both for a more healthy football environment across Scotland, and a significantly more realistic sense of identity and entitlement amongst Rangers fans.

Thing is D-J, I don't know how valid that arguement is post Bosman. I saw it on the other thread. But the game has changed. In the 80's it was assumed you liked or played football, now? I am not so sure.

From a purely selfish point of view, that would suit me down to the ground. As a Celtic supporter in the south of England I would happily see them hoover up Portsmouth's franchise and start competing in the Championship en route to the Premier League. If they could relocate to Fratton Park, so much the better. 🙂

The glamour of awaydays in Reading, Crystal Palace, Cardiff, Bristol. Sadly, they don't have closes dahn sarf so there'll be nowhere for us to pish.

But that door has been slammed in our faces many times. You can understand smaller English clubs not wanting or needing another larger competitor. The only avenue into English football for Celtic would be if HMRC go after badly-run English clubs and push them into insolvency after they have finished with Rangers, leaving a few vacancies in the league.

Having said that I think us and Scottish football are stuck with each other so if it takes Celtic 'ceding some income streams to smaller clubs to make it a more compelling and competitive spectacle, then bring it on.

You would also have to be voted in by the other turkeys,sorry English league clubs,which would leave one of them out. Unlike up here,you can't just do a trojan horse. I wonder if that might dilute some of the unacceptable facets of Celtic's "heritage" Don't know if Stevenage fans would get the subtle nuances of the Green Brigade's songbook.

Classic Video Fast Haggis. genuine lols.

Before David Murray initiated his spending spree with the appointment of Graeme Souness

DJ, Souness was manager before Murray came on to the scene, a moot point I know, but one that is often quoted wrongly.

I wholeheartedly agree with your other comments though with regards to the net resut being a healthier game. The one thing I hope that comes out of this is that Rangers are run properly, Murray park (please rename it!) is utilised correctly and we bring on the cream of scottish talent, along with the other Scottish clubs.

That is the only way Scottish football will prosper again. I'm also fed up of us taking youths from all over europe and beyond and trying to mould them, get the scottish lads in instead.

Getting the national side back to some sort of consistency in qualifying for and competing in tournaments has to be all our priorities.

I'm pretty certain this Bill Miller guy is a Celtic fan at the wind-up

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-takeover-bill-miller-s-statement-in-full-1-2246439