Oooh! I’ve seen that episode of Hammer House of Horrors. The House that Bled.
Ohh I remember that one - I recall blood spluttering out of bath taps? The scariest one though was Two Faces of Evil...
t would be arrogant in the extreme to say with absolute certainty that we have an absolute understanding of all there is.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% "No" to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say "Yes"
People who discount stuff because we don't know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human. Go back 200 years and people would not even be able to imagine the sort of stuff we know about today, can develop today etc,.
Go another 200 years into the future and things that people are discounting out of hand today will be well understood and explained.
However if there was to be such a thing as a “ghost” then what I said was that the “psychic footprint” is the only explanation that to me sounds even slightly plausible. There’s a lot about the human mind we still don’t understand. I should add that I’m very sceptical about the theory but who knows what will be discovered as science progresses.
So you're basically describing a thought experiment? These things don't exist, but if they did it must be because of something else that doesn't exist.
No actually Cougar you’re not only wrong in your assessment, but swapping words about to make it sound like something its not is a bit unjust, perhaps even insulting.
Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don't know what that is. Concluding "must be ghosts" is one heck of a logic leap.
Point is, your story as presented likely has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is. Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.
Just up ?. slug-a-bed.
Not really mate, I did say in my earlier post that i thought these occurrences were more to do with residual energy rather than ghosts, in the classic term.
You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar. Not just a matter of hmm, odd, not sure. Its a case of you're demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen. And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.
Sure, it could be explained away as something to do with our own minds and how they work, though these things have been examined for centuries and nobody as yet has come up with any sort of answer beyond attempting to shout it down.
has a more pedestrian explanation even if you / we don’t know what that is.
Just can't help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in 🙄
My view is that we are elctro-chemical cell bags whose conciousness is down to said electro-chemical processes. When electro-chemical processes stop (death) conciousness ends.
Other views obviously exist.
Current neuroscience hypotheses are pointing to the brain being a prediction engine - Cambridge Summary from link - "Why is a child so much better at catching a moving ball than the most advanced robot? Why do we find unexpected or ambiguous language amusing? How are we so good at attending to the world around us, and yet fall for visual illusions and magic? Latest neuroscience research suggests that this is because the human brain is organised as a pyramid of neural processes that generate successively complex predictions about the future. In recent research from the CBU, led by Srivas Chennu, by measuring the brain’s electrical activity, we show that the information from our senses flowing through this predictive hierarchy is fundamentally altered by what we expect to perceive and what we attend to. Our findings argue that cognition, and ultimately our consciousness, is continually shaped not just by the external world, but also by our internal biases and past experience."
Or Your brain hallucinates your conscious reality
In short, if you don't believe in ghosts and fall on the 'we just die' side of belief your personal prediction engine will never determine that ghost are a likely explanation for anything.
If you are bit more spiritual and aren't so sure about the nature of existence, or are in a dark place, or you are a teenager and your brain is all over the shop anyway, or somebody has primed you (funny how the OP knows about the deaths in their house) then your prediction engine may well conclude that there is something dodgy going on.
Concluding “must be ghosts” is one heck of a logic leap.
People do it all the time though, obviously.
I've posted about this before... there was a post on Stargazers Lounge a few years ago. Somebody reported seeing a very fast moving, bright object in the night sky at a particular time. Not a plane or helicopter, too fast for a satellite, etc. The poster gave the direction of movement and time, and concluded that it must have been a UFO because he'd ruled out everything else.
Within 5 minutes, the first reply was that it was the ISS, with a link to a website detailing times. etc. With just a tiny amount of research, this person could have found the actual explanation for his observation. (And found out who was on board, what they were doing, what they had for lunch, checked for any webcams, etc...)
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
But this is flawed because you're assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say "no" with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell's Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say "no" beyond reasonable doubt.
People who discount stuff because we don’t know enough about it or understand it yet are just limiting themselves within the boundaries of the human.
Agreed, but I refer you again to the quote I posted. This doesn't mean we get to just make stuff up.
This argument again is flawed because the universe doesn't require our understanding. No-one of a scientific bent ever said "we don't understand that so it can't be possible."
Take homeopathy. Homeopaths may argue that just because we don't understand how it works doesn't mean we can dismiss it. And as far as it goes this is absolutely true. But what we can do is test their claims. Which is what we've done, many times, and demonstrated that its efficacy is akin to any other placebo treatment. At which point, proving "how it works" is simply begging the question and we're back to your man with his psychic footprints again.
It's good to have an open mind. But without a filter it's just an open drain that lets any old shit in.
You really are being the aggressive cynic in this thread Cougar.
For what it's worth, I'm not just being a hard-nosed cynic. Sceptic, certainly. I'm not just dismissing it offhand, I've looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine, I think it's fascinating. I've read all about UFOs, Kirlian photography, spontaneous human combustion, fairies at the bottom of the garden, ESP, and many other phenomenon including, yes, ghosts. Some of it still remains a mystery, but the vast bulk does not.
We have found atoms. We have found subatomic particles. We have found distant galaxies. We have, as yet, not found the slightest bit of credible evidence to suggest that there is any such things as ghosts beyond the caption on Fox Mulder's famous UFO poster.
Its a case of you’re demanding these instances people have experienced did not happen.
I'm not demanding anything. I'm sure it was very real to them. Still doesn't mean Ghosts.
And that in no way could ever mean theres such a thing as a psychic experience.
Because there isn't. Years and years of study has turned up precisely nothing other than hoaxes and fairy stories. Prove me / them wrong, you'll be very rich.
Just can’t help yourself can you. Always need to get some sort of dig in
I can't see why you think that's a dig. For the avoidance of any doubt, it wasn't intended as such.
You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don't, I can assure you that I'm an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
But he did see a UFO as he couldn't identify it. Then it was identified as the ISS so it became a IFO 😉
I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
😀 😀
But this is flawed because you’re assuming that both standpoints have equal weight. Can I say “no” with 100% certainty regarding the existence of ghosts / UFOs / unicorns / god / Nessie / Russell’s Teapot / the tooth fairy etc etc? Of course not. But I can say “no” beyond reasonable doubt.
I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.
To me it is just a lack of imagination. For example, of course there will be life of some sort somewhere else in the universe but it may not ever be found by the technologies humans have. We may, say, test for water as all life has to come from that but that is just limiting it with what we think we know. Any testing/searching is immediately hamstrung by the narrow minds and boundaries of the people involved.
I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
My wife used to be a designer for them 🙂
You seem to be taking my posts personally. Please don’t, I can assure you that I’m an equal opportunities sociopath and wish you no ill will.
Thats good to hear. Again.
I'll take it your use of the word 'pedestrian' was implied as a noun and not an adjective .
.
Everyone has the right to be skeptical. Not faulting anyone for that.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
And exactly the same statement applies to werewolves, pixies, invisible Tetley tea men dancing on your kitchen table or anything else you might want to imagine.
I’ve looked into this sort of stuff at length. I used to have a subscription to the Unexplained magazine
😀 😀
To be clear, what I meant was,
When I was younger, I was fascinated with it all. Then when I was a little older I 'did my research,' at libraries and then later with the web. I'm not holding up The Unexplained as a bastion of proof but rather as an example that my point of entry was always "how does that work?" rather than just ignorant / cynical dismissal. Today I'm sceptical but it's a position I've arrived at rather than started from.
I’ll take it your use of the word ‘pedestrian’ was implied as a noun and not an adjective .
I meant "less supernatural" and was reaching for the correct word. Mundane? Practical? It's on the tip of my brain.
To be clear, what I meant was.......,
Yeah, was obvious. But funny at the same time. 😉
I am not assuming equal weight at all but a No is a No. You also cannot say no beyond reasonable doubt as that is just your reasonable doubt which again is limited by your own understandings of what a human knows.
Sure I can. I mentioned it earlier, see Russell's Teapot. I cannot state with absolute certainty that there isn't (say) a cheese and ham toastie in orbit around Jupiter. I can however state beyond reasonable doubt that there isn't.
To me it is just a lack of imagination.
We can all likely imagine plenty of things. Right now I'm imagining Eliza Dushku lying in my bed, lightly oiled. I cannot say with 100% certainty that she isn't there, but I believe beyond reasonable doubt that were I to pop into the next room and check I would be sadly disappointed.
Just because we can imagine something doesn't automatically grant it credibility, you have to balance imagination with reason. If I'd had an email at the weekend from Ms D saying she'd be round on Wednesday, that would change the odds a little.
But, he probably wanted to see a UFO, so he saw one.
A while back I was coming back in from a ride at dusk and saw some weird stuff in the distance. Looked like fireworks but they were looping round each other in a way which would be impossible for normal fireworks.
Once I got home started googling and there just happened to be a fireworks "competition" (aka display) going on at the local stately home and part of it included drones. Problem solved even if less exciting than aliens.
I used to live in an old mansion House in Aberdeenshire. It was split into four apartments - one on each floor- plus a cottage on the end. I lived on the top floor.
The ground floor neighbour worked offshore. Month on, month off. He told me the place was haunted when I moved in. I found that interesting but not spooky.
Anyway, the first week after we'd moved in, we heard someone walking around in the flat below. All night. It sounded like big, hobnail boots on a wooden floor. The two middle floors were holiday homes and I was able to ascertain from both owners that nobody was in occupancy at the time. The ground floor neighbour was offshore. We heard the "ghost" many times over the years. Just walking around in the night.
The ground floor was different. They had two sightings. A dark figure wearing a hood. One was in a bedroom where a female guest was staying. It suddenly felt freezing cold in the room and she looked up to see the figure standing over the bed. The other was my neighbour sitting on the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa. (He was drunk at the time though)
The house had burnt down and been rebuilt in the late 19th century and a young girl had died in the fire. The neighbours in the end cottage apparently saw an apparition of a young girl in a nightdress on the stairs a few times.
Exactly, which is why people who can say 100% “No” to things like ghosts, UFOs etc,. are not more right that those that say “Yes”
When I say "no", it's shorthand for "I can't prove a negative, but their existence is vanishingly unlikely so I choose to live my life on the basis that they don't exist. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so it's up to the claimants to prove their existence, not me to prove they're wrong."
How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?
How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?
Because when people think of ghosts they automatically think of fictional ghosts, and spooky tales told about stately homes to draw in the tourists, etc. There have been plenty of stories shared on this thread that are not Victorian, MR James style stories. (Whether you choose to believe them or not is another point..)
the sofa with the log burner blazing but, again, it suddenly felt freezing cold and he saw the hooded figure sitting at the other end of the sofa.
I experience that all too often, it’s my eldest leaving the living room door open and sitting down in her Ooodie.
Ghost believer? Not really definite either way but I like a good ghost story. Weird stuff has happened to me over the years I can't explain no matter how much logic I throw at it.
But here's the thing. Right or wrong, I guess we're all going to find out at some point.
My cousin's a Psychic Investigator and loves a bit of Biofield work ,message me if you want your Aura filmed 🙂
I experience that all too often, it’s my eldest leaving the living room door open and sitting down in her Ooodie.
One of the stories above, about slamming doors and lights on/off had me thinking the same as you.
It's amazing how often the oven turns itself on, or the lights, or the front door unlocks itself, or items mysteriously get damaged. The whole family swear innocence and the cat looks unconcerned. Meanwhile, our resident poltergeist gets the blame.
Talking of poltergeists - this was in the neighbourhood: https://archive.org/details/twitter-936939267053338624
How comes ghosts are usually in Edwardian/Victorian clothing? Why no shell suit clad ghostly visitors?
Maybe they have a limited afterlife? It'll be a couple of hundred years before we start seeing ghosts in hoodies complaining about facemasks.
Talking of poltergeists – this was in the neighbourhood:
Better link:
https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/936939267053338624
My cousin’s a Psychic Investigator and loves a bit of Biofield work ,message me if you want your Aura filmed 🙂
You know, I'm half-tempted to take you up on that.
Only joking Cougar,I wouldn't want any of you lot bothering her ;-)🤣🙃
She's lovely though ,has some great stories about doing overnighters at (allegedly) haunted sites ,and doesn't try to hard sell/preach any of her beliefs or theories.
So you’re basically describing a thought experiment? These things don’t exist, but if they did it must be because of something else that doesn’t exist.
You're not understanding thought experiments now as well.
Perhaps. Thanks for the helpful explanation.
She’s lovely though ,has some great stories about doing overnighters at (allegedly) haunted sites
I've had a few overnighters with some dodgy spirits. Never saw any ghosts though.
I dont believe myself, but open minded to the possibility.
My parent own(ed) a farm and my grandmother and my mother passed away there. Its the kind of thing you'd expect to maybe see some ghostly goings on, even with my imagination.
Nothing, not a thing from both these passings even however much i wished it to happen.
However.....
One day I was driving round the back of the Farm, and as I drove into the coutyard, kind of around dusk, going into night, i could see a man walking into one of the barns. He was dressed like my father so assumed it was him. As i got out the car and went into the barn calling his name, i switched on the lights. No one there. It didnt feel ghostly or unnerving. But i cant explain it.
When I tell people what happened, they assume it was after my father passed away. It wasnt, we has still alive then and was out for shopping.
That only ever happened the once.
I read this thread. Went downstairs and pressed play on the Sonos, and the song that came on was called 'spooky'.
Explain that.
I spend a significant chunk of my life working alone in historic buildings and ruins. Your brain has evolved to identify risks before the risk gets within eating distance of you so it fills in gaps in what your senses have detected.
I don’t believe in ghosts but I have experienced plenty of places with pretty un-earthly sound/light effects which took a while to track down (The best was a rope flapping against a metal flag pole which by the time it had been transmitted through three levels of napoleonic gun fort had transformed itself into a low moaning sound).
Old buildings, and quite a few modern buildings, make odd sounds as they warm up, cool down, or the plumbing tries to remember how it is supposed to work.
When you are working in spaces you aren’t comfortable with, like a room partially filled with 6’ long very old wooden & lead boxes, it doesn’t matter how much PPE you have on because your subconscious is fully aware of all the potential things the occupants could potentially have expired from and is working overdrive to get you out of there. A determined brain will give shadows at the edge of your vision cast by your head torch long bony fingers and the unexpected bat staring back at you out of the crack in the ceiling will definitely have long teeth.
message me if you want your Aura filmed
Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge nudge. Nudge nudge. Know what I mean? Say no more...know what I mean?
I spend a significant chunk of my life working alone in historic buildings and ruins.
When you are working in spaces you aren’t comfortable with, like a room partially filled with 6’ long very old wooden & lead boxes
You are Van Helsing AICMFP!
if @Richie_B, whose job description makes him sound like a professional vampire hunter doesn't believe in ghosts, I'm sure as hell not going to!
I’ve had a few overnighters with some dodgy spirits. Never saw any ghosts though.
Neither did they ...... EVER 🙂
All those nights of sitting in the dark,cameras and sound gear recording ,and all the while desperately trying not to fart. 🙂 🤣
It is a form of energy (with intelligence, after all that energy comes from us) or memory that lingers in time and space (dimensions) but we like to call them ghosts.
Energy = electricity?
However, most of the energy has "short-term memory" and will keep repeating themselves like a broken record because they are stuck in a particular time and space. Hence, people who commit suicide will have their energy repeating the action constantly without the ability to stop it.
For those who had encountered ghosts, the ghosts (energy that is stuck) are either there to let you know of their present or as we say you have just tuned in the right frequency, hence able to see them.
Having said that energy force can either be positive or negative i.e. good and evil.
If you wish you can go into different description of energies and this is where you find different categories like demons, goblins, whatever etc. Interestingly, some of this energy will affect your brainwave just like they say that the evil ones (negative energy) are telling you to do things and affect your behaviour.
How long will the energy force remains in a particular location of the time and space is difficult to say. What cause them to stay is unclear.
Nevertheless, we are not as mechanical as we think we are as our mechanical body requires energy to power it just like "electricity".
Oh ya for those skeptics I would say their concept of human beings is just a mechanical vessel and hence when their body dies they are recycled as fertiliser. What they are missing in their explanation is how the energy force will dissipate, after all the machine did store some "energy" in the battery when it was working.
You are Van Helsing AICMFP!
More a sweary gollum
So did the woman from Swansea manage to get out of paying her mortgage?
Well I think we can forget about fusion, we just need to tap into ghosts for an never ending pollution free source.
A round of applause for chewkw for his rational, well argued and convincing explanation. I'm glad that's all cleared up...
A round of applause for chewkw for his rational, well argued and convincing explanation. I’m glad that’s all cleared up…
Therefore, ghosts are real. The reason you cannot see them is because you do not know or have the ability to tune into their frequency.
