[Closed] German GP - who's watching?

Nah, but I'm going there in a week or so with our formula student team 🙂

Watching via free wifi on laptop in pub 😉

Nah, but I'm going there in a week or so with our formula student team

Do you race on the F1 circuit with Formula Student?

I think they use the start straight for the acceleration tests, but a much smaller circuit with tighter corners for most of it.
I don't really know much of the details, I'm just there to make sure not too many of our students get electrocuted by our electric car 🙂

Well as far as i'm concerned, that's team orders, which are banned.

oh well that's my sweeper in the bin 👿

Team orders are expressly forbidden and the FIA will surely have to penali... Oh no wait, it's Ferrari.

I think massa's chain slipped as he was making a break

How can they possibly get away with that?

I know they likely will, but how?

With a bit of luck, one of alonso's toys might get stuck in his airbox, he's thrown enough out!

Team orders are suppposed to be banned what is going on absolute bullshit I hope someone logs a complaint although does not seem it will happen.

What was that? Seriously ferrari?

That's an uneasy silence 😯

Don't worry the FIA (Ferrari's International Assistance) will have some cock and bull story already lined up and ready to say why they didn't cheat. Absolute joke. Eddie Jordan said it right at the beginning - if Alonso wants the win, it's up to HIM to win it - not the crew with "team orders" coming into play.

Massa was 'fuel' saving wasn't he? 😐

Team orders is slowing a fazt3er driver to allow a slower one to pass. This was the slower driver allowing the faster one to pass to keep him out of the clutches of Vettel.

No issue at all

Your anti alonso bias is showing

well the faster driver should pass the slower [i]legally [/i] i.e. within the rules

TJ rules say he must pass without team assistance! Rightly or wrongly.

Blimey, I agree with Eddie !

TJ - your talking shitte! You clearly hear Massa's engineer say sorry! You hear him being told what to do and everyone is saying it was team orders! I'm not anti Alonso - I'm anti cheating.

TJ, i'm getting a feeling you have nothing constructive to add when it comes to formula one. No one has blamed Alonso for this.

I stand by what I say. Its not cheating, it will not be found to be such. No complaint will be upheld.

If it was Hamilton wanting past his teammate you wouldn't be complaining.

Domenicalli obviously having a very difficult phone call there to someone

Shame the Ferraris couldn't have battled it out, but with Vettel just behind to capitalise on any mistakes, the fact that battling would not have been good for either car's engine/gearbox etc, and that Alonso has a much more realistic chance of winning the Driver's championship, the Ferrari [i]team[/i] did the best thing they could. Let's face it, Alonso is far better than Massa, and Ferrari's only chance of the Driver's WC. The 1-2 was pretty safe, but might not have been had the two Ferrari's battled it out for the win.

It's not about what Eddie Jordan thinks is right or wrong; he's never been in the position Ferrari have, so his opinion is irrelevant. Of course, it's not [i]sporting[/i], but considering what teams invest in the sport, then the win and WC is what it's all about. Very very tough on Massa, who [i]deserved[/i] the win, but then it's up to him to be better than Alonso over a season. On results so far, he's clearly some way behind. It's Alonso who's driving that team forward, so maybe he deserves the odd break now and then. It's about time he had a bit of good luck anyway.

I expect there will be a shitstorm erupting over this, but Ferrari will probably come out of this ok. It could of course backfire on them, but this is a sport where risks have to be taken. Red Bull allowed their drivers to race, and they took each other out. The team suffered. Ferrari have at least got the 1-2 and the vital points today.

Your so wrong TJ, if I'd want Hamilton get past a team mate I'd want see him do it fair and square and in the past he has done so! And who says' we are all Hamilton fans?

TJ - you're such a knob, FMs fastest lap was within 1/10th of FA.

I would love FM to just lean over and strangle Alonso while he's talking.

I bet he's tempted. 🙂

Funny how Massa's not wanting answer the questions hey. His comment being "a good job for the team" says it all and boy does he look happy - not.

I bet you that Ferrari are not censured in any way

Guys - your bias is so clear its funny. Hamilton can do no wrong, Ferrari and Alonso no right

Farrari did nothing wrong at all - within the rules.

TJ, and then you have to bring in Hamilton. Once in a while it'd help your cause if you balanced your arguments but you are coming off as a broken record. It stopped being interesting a while back.

Elfinsafety

So what you are saying is that it is ok to cheat?

Bias to Hamilton??? No ones mentioned Hamilton!!! It's funny how only you, Alonso and the boss of Ferrari are saying they didn't cheat! Have you some Spanish blood in you that your not telling us of 😉

TandemJeremy - Member

Farrari did nothing wrong at all - within the rules.

So that's why Massa is unwilling to answer questions in the after-race interview huh?

Ron Smedley talks more bullshit than a politician! Utter utter crap Ron.

Massa is well pissed off and rightly so

I bring in Hamilton because it shows the double standards on here. He has been censured so many times for dangerous driving and causing accidents but in the eyes of STW he is conspired against.

So when there is no complaint upheld and Ferrari are not censured will you then believe they did no wrong?

It's not about bias its about millions of people wanting to see a motor race where winning is done fairly and within the rules. Ferrari has gone down in my estimation as a result of this - Massa's words clearly show he clearly disagreed with this.

TJ you seem to have a 'thing' sorry bias about Hamilton, do you have a white pointy hat and a burning crucifix to hand?

He has been censured so many times for dangerous driving and causing accidents but in the eyes of STW he is conspired against.

Like Schuey in his heyday? 😉

So what you are saying is that it is ok to cheat?

If Ferrari have been proven to have cheated, then I'm sure the FIA will penalise them appropriately. The same way they did to McLaren over Spygate and Lewis in Melbourne 2009, and Renault for Singapore 2008.

The crucial fact is, that at no point did Ferrari tell Massa to let Alonso by. In my opinion, what happened today is no more 'cheating' than a team having a double diffuser or an F-duct...

Both Ferraris should be kicked out - but hey who's in charge of the FIA? Oh yes the man responsible for all of Schui's 'overtaking' moves!!!

TJ - team orders were banned due to Ferraris disgraceful show at the Austrian GP with Schuey and Rubbens. We all knew they went on, we know it's a stupid rule now but the rule exists now! It wasn't thought through well when it was implemented and it needs sorting properly but today was a clear show of team orders and you can't deny that.

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/motorbikes/default.stm ]This will be better![/url]

at no point "did Ferrari tell Massa to let Alonso by"

*chuckles*

Tell me ur not naive enough to believe ferrari wouldn't have a pre planned code for this eventuality?, something like. Oh I dunno, how about "he is faster than you...do you understand" or similar

And TJ hammy bashing even though he had nothing to do with it? well I can try to look shocked but it would be as convincing as smedleys performance

tails - spot on!

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48918

and for something more important.

http://www.itv-f1.com/pitbabes.aspx?Top=6 might want to look at home not work 😯

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48918

and for something more important.

http://www.itv-f1.com/pitbabes.aspx?Top=6 might want to look at home not work 😯

not that I could afford one, but on the basis of the way Ferrari behaved today, I'll never buy one. I'll go further and include fiat, but not much a statement that.

Cheating political jockeys!

Anyone else notice how Jenson Buttons comment was cut short just as he was about to make his views known?

Personally hope Alonso loses his position for the race.

Ferrari International Assistance Post race meeting -

Todt "Can you please explain how Alonso passed Massa so easily to gain first place please"

Domenicali "I got the manual out that your wrote post Austrian GP Jean"

Todt "Well done - no penalty will be given as your clearly a chip off the old block"

Tell me ur not naive enough to believe ferrari wouldn't have a pre planned code for this eventuality?

Of course not. But the rule states that 'team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited'.

Did anyone hear Massa being told to let Alonso through? No. Therefore, no rules have been broken. It's clear that the message to Massa was a coded one, but unfortunately no-one can 'prove' that. If such a team rule is stipulated in a contract with a diver, that's not something that can be considered, as the contracts are private ones. I dare say most of the leading teams have similar stipulations, and this is not the only incidence of this happening anyway.

Yes it seems unfair, but Ferrari have played things within the rules, as far as the rules stand. Same with McLaren and their F-duct.

If Alonso wins the WC by the same margin of points that he won by today, then Ferrari would have played a masterstroke. It's all about winning, or do people not understand the concept of competition'?

winning by any means fair or foul is not the same as just plain winning.

All the stewards need to do is take the data of the 5 laps before the passing incident and the 5 laps after the passing incident then compare the throttle trace to the passing lap. Im sure this will show Massa doing something different with his right foot. Thats how disputes are done in the BTCC.

Ferrari called into the stewards.

THere is nothing to stop one team mate letting another through. It's just the team isn't allowed to instruct the driver to do so. It was an obvious pass. And I think Massa did it deliberately to show his distaste. It is likely that Mass has been told "be a good boy" in his contract. I.e, if your team mate is behind you and is faster, let him past. And we'll let you know when he is faster.....

What makes me laugh in this multi multi million pound sport is why didn't Massa brake very late at turn 6, smoke his tyres a bit and feign a poor braking effort and then baby Alonso could have gone underneath him and passed him "legitimately" Oh I know why - he wanted the win for himself being a racing driver that he is - but obviously not allowed to today

So, if Massa has been wronged, and Ferrari are penalised and disqualified from the race, how does that do anyone justice? If Massa did slow, how is that Alonso's fault? He just continued at the pace he'd been doing all along. It was up to Massa to make a decision. If he 'decided' to let Alonso through, then that's not 'team orders'. I think this is how Ferrari might defend it.

I like a bit of controversy in sport. Makes things more exciting.

Oh, and what about Red Bull taking Webber's front wing and giving it to Vettel? Would that not be favouring one driver to give them an advantage? Maybe not breaking rules, but any more ethical? Backfired on them anyway, but it's clear they favour Vettel really.

If Massa did slow, how is that Alonso's fault

Because Alonso is a pathetic, mardy, toys out of pram driver who's antics would be better suited to the local playgroup!

Not that I'm biased of course!!

Elfinsafety, do you think if Alonso hadn't been crying like a baby about how "ridiculously" slow Massa was that Massa wouldn't have had the message from Smedley and then allowed Alonos to pass? Please don't be naive. They will all sing from the same song sheet - Domenicali will have told Smedley what he wanted his driver to do and Smedley will not go against his boss, his employer and will blatantly lie to save the whole teams skin. There are two losers in all this - the public for seeing such a debacle and sadly for Massa who on the 12 month anniversary of his terrible accident was denied a race win that he deserved.

Hockenheim 2008 - Hamilton passed Kovaleinen under very similar circumstances IIRC. No outcry then.

Many many other examples of this - you let your faster team mate past without hindering them.

Massa led 49 out of 67 laps. Kovi never got anywhere near Hamilton while driving for Mclaren. A little different I think.

Kovaleinen was leading Hamilton and was told " hamilton is faster" and let him by for the win. Same situation IIRC

really guys - your anti alonso anti ferrari bias on here is laughable. If McLaran do something it is fine, if Ferrari do it it is not.
]
Many many example over the years of what ferrari have done today. Many a lot more blatent

TJ - i wonder if your views would be a little different if it was, say a Scottish driver perhaps, that had come off worse out of the situation...?

😉

My views would be the same. I have no time for cant and bias - and if you are honest the reaction of many on here to Alonso is bias verging on racism. I just see this as a situation that has happened many times - including being done by McLaran. But the STWers only cry fould if its Ferrari and Alonso

the-muffin-man - Member

Because Alonso is a pathetic, mardy, toys out of pram driver who's antics would be better suited to the local playgroup!

Not that I'm biased of course!!

Hadge - Member

do you think if Alonso hadn't been crying like a baby

Race/Nationality has nothing to do with it, Alonso is a whiney little b*tch

is bias verging on racism.

Here we go........ 😯

Whether Ferrari, McClaren, Red Bull or any other team give team orders it is against the rules and destroys F1 as a sporting contest.

Boz - why doesn't Hamilton attract the same hatred then? He whines as much as Alonso and he has been penalised more than any other driver.

There are double standards here for sure. its very clear. McLaran do it its OK, Ferrari do it its cheating

$100k fine for the rule breaking gets...
Alonso has a lot of talent as a driver, unfortunately it is eclipsed by his talent as a stroppy mardy besterd when he is not getting his own way, as witnessed lots of times over the past season and previous seasons.

TJ - hook line and sinker pmsl. See what happens when you go fishing 😉 I've absolutely nothing against Alonso whatsoever but I could see by what you posted it wouldn't take much reel you in. Never mind.

TJ - I'd have the same opinion of him no matter what nationality he was.

My bias is that I don't like him as a driver - he doesn't race fair and demands that everyone plays to his tune. He went back to Renault because McLaren wouldn't yield to him. And when he was back at Renault he whole demeanour was of a driver who wasn't putting any effort in because he was only there holding station until his Ferrari deal came through. He didn't help Renault one jot during that period and only bought shame to the team.

And Massa has gone down in my estimation, since Schumacher left I thought he'd become his own man who wouldn't need to follow team orders again. And if the only reason he got a new deal after his accident was if he played No.2 to Alonso then Ferrari should be especially ashamed at themselves for taking advantage of his situation.

And don't try and paint Hamilton as the same as Alonso - if that was the case he'd have fought to keep Kovi as his No2 whipping boy and not let the team take in the World Champion.

Bit harsh that - $100k fine for doing nothing! Surely Ferrari will protest against such a travesty of justice

Hadge I been fishing since my first post on this thread. Easy catch

I've read many of your self righteous posts on here TJ - you must be God in disguise

TJ - funnily enough people on here are likely to get behind Hamilton as opposed Alonso as he is British (or English... :wink:) so there will always be bias for Hamilton. Coupled with the fact Alonso behaved like a child over the leaving Mclaren episode, and this season is heard bleating about Hamilton over his radio whilst the race is going on - just sums up an immature and pathetic attitude.

Or is such a statement as that racist?

Thats not racist at all

I do believe that Alonso gets a harder time than Hamilton from teh UK press and the STWers - and that is bias and in some case is perhpas racist.

And the Spanish fans can't be accused of being racist after what they did against Hamilton can they? That's because the Spanish fans got behind a Spanish driver. Isn't that the same as the Britich press and fans getting behind Hamilton - only we don't go to the lenghts as they did with the black faces!

Alonso he is clearly not as good as Hamilton hence always being beaten by him and could not win this race without Massa pulling over. Anyway Ferrari fined simple they cheated and where caught Vetal Should be the winner more tainted points for Alonso.

Great. TJ pulls the racism card. How low can you go? Well, still not as low as Alonso can.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

TandemJeremy - Member

...... and that is bias and in some case is [i]perhaps[/i] racist.

Read what people say about Alonso - he gets far more stick than he deserves on here and in the British press. Hamilton whinges as much but dosen't get teh bad press.

I did. My point stands.

If you want racism, then the spanish with Hamilton fit the bill.

Hmmmm - just because you give someone 'stick' it doesnt automatically mean its racist does it?

As already stated, the Spanish fans (albeit a minority i would hope to think) in recent years have given a fair bit a racist abuse out in the examples of Hamilton at the Spanish GP and the England 'friendly' in Madrid. That's real racism they dished out - not assumed racism..... 😯

There was a risk of thinking Eddie overstepped himself today with the depth and enthusiastic delivery of his comments however for the first time I actually think he was spot on. Bang on.

You don't really need evidence, the team radio to Massa and the lack of defence of his line. I bet theres telemetry to back this up as well. It reminded me of Irvine.

Why does Alonso leave such a bitter taste in your mouth?