Rainper. you clearly have an axe to grind. Have you joined this forum simply to comment on this thread? You don’t seem to have posted on any others, so I’m a little curious...
It’s not acceptable for anyone to put up with. It’s also not been the case in the two recent workplaces I’ve worked in which had single bathroom facilities as I described. They were tidy and seemed better treated by users than more traditional toilet arrangements.
The quoted section was about the state of shared facilities in bar in the evening.
Tis all in the pseudo.
Rainper. you clearly have an axe to grind. Have you joined this forum simply to comment on this thread? You don’t seem to have posted on any others, so I’m a little curious…
How exactly is recognising that the removal of existing single-sex toilets has many negative impacts on women an axe to grind?
It’s not acceptable for anyone to put up with.
+1.
I think that there are several factors that influence whether it makes sense or not to have mixed sex loos, of which scale and whether or nor alcohol consumption is involved are two important elements (but not the only ones). We go to a cafe with the kids* at the weekend that is small scale, doesn't sell alcohol and has to loos that are used interchangeably by anyone as and when they are free. Makes sense. In a scenario where there are many people and alcohol is involved, it would be sensible to have some single sex provision. Generally though my wife and I both have no issues with mixed provision. Her take (sample size of one) - if someone is going to upskirt, they'll do it anyway, just find a different outlet.
* and btw using the mens loos with the cubicle door open with the kids has never been a problem.
Recognising the needs of women isn’t the issue. Joining a forum simply to comment on one thread and one aspect is.
Men also have to sit on seats. The experience really is little different. There are many arguments against multi-gender toilets but this really isn’t one of them.
I think you’ll find this pretty high up the list on women complaints about shared facilities.
I think you'll find that's also high up the list of mens complaints about toilets too. That isn't an argument for single-sex toilets though.
There is a British Standard for WC provision (BS6465-1). To put into perspective I have a project where I have 18 female WC and 6 male WC / 6 urinals (plus 3 DWCs). This is based on a 50/50 occupancy split. The male from memory is oversized as extra urinals were requested (although should have been provided).
The provision for female WCs is always greater, and the difference varies depending on the type of venue.
I also have a project that has unisex single WCs. Not my first choice but separate sex WCs would have required a greater provision, taken up more space and required ambulant provision under the standards.
We don’t want mixed sex toilets.
And I pointed this out early, about mens poor hygene.
keep women only facilities and introduce gender neutral ones
and keep men-only facilities then - I object to gender favouritism.
What if men don't feel comfortable in gender-neutral tiolets - why do they have to 'suck it up' but women don't.
“Equality” doesn’t mean doing the same for everyone, especially when needs are different between demographics, it’s doing what is fair. Should there be sanitary towel bins in the gents?
It does mean doing the same thing - the clue is in the letters "equal" which appear in "equality" but don't appear in "fair". And fair in whose opinion ?
You do realise, don’t you, that this isn’t as simple as a hairy-arsed bloke waking up one morning and thinking “I think I’ll be a woman today”?
except that this does happen :
https://www.christian.org.uk/news/male-prisoners-self-identifying-as-trans-for-perks/
Some women don't even feel comfortable in women-only toilets - surely anyone with a partner has witnessed occasions where they have arrived home 'bursting' because they didn't want to use any public toilets that they felt weren't clean enough, but were actually of a reasonable standard?
I also have a project that has unisex single WCs
Sounds like you have a great job...
and keep men-only facilities then – I object to gender favouritism.
It does mean doing the same thing – the clue is in the letters “equal” which appear in “equality” but don’t appear in “fair” And fair in whose opinion ?
Why do only women have gynaecologists? Where are all the men's gynae?
The problem with this line of thinking is it starts from the assumption that you already have parity. In which case, you're right, of course equality does mean doing the same thing. But if you don't then you have to treat demographics differently in order to try and achieve equality.
If you have two kids and a bag of sweets, giving them half each is equal. But if one of them already has a bag of sweets, in the interests of "equality" do you still give them half each of yours or do you instead give your bag to the kid who doesn't have any? The former may be equal, but it's not fair. You're not treating them with equality because equality wan't there to start with. [EDIT: assuming kid #2 hasn't already troughed their own bag earlier, OFC]
In the case of toilets, and it saddens me to have to even type this, male and female usage and requirements are different. Simply going for a wee (generally) takes longer for women so achieving the same, uh, throughput of customers requires larger facilities. That's before we've even started taking into consideration things like messy periods. Eg, I can't imagine that many women would want to swill out a mooncup in a mixed-gender shared area, yet this is a problem which simply doesn't exist for men, and thus why your concept of "equality" is broken.
except that this does happen :
I'm sure that's entirely representative of society as a whole.
(I've edited that link, it was causing an annoying pop-up.)
That Christian Institute link is popping up a sign-in box.
Edit. Ah, you spotted it.
Why do only women have gynaecologists? Where are all the men’s gynae?
I'll give you a clue 😉
"The word "gynaecology" comes from the oblique stem (γυναικ-) of Greek γυνή (gyne), "woman", and -logia, "study". "
Men do have urologists, though. I'm not sure if self-identification counts for gynaecological study. What they don't have are "andrologists".
I always sit down to wee. Nobody goes to a work toilet without 70% charge on their phone these days anyway.
You do realise that wasn't an entirely serious question? (-:
rainper
This is a negative (and disgusting) impact brought about by removing single-sex toilets.
Standing in piss is also very different to having to sit on a piss covered seat so I’d hope you recognise this is worse for women.
You're assuming men caused that problem? Look up hovering.
You’re assuming men caused that problem? Look up hovering.
That's as may be but I suspect it's a rather safe bet that the majority of it is men.
Simply going for a wee (generally) takes longer for women
not with my partner - I wish I had her flow rate...
There still needs to be men-only toilets - for one thing women aren't going to enjoy having George Michael wannabes hanging around their toilets late at night...
You’re assuming men caused that problem? Look up hovering.
[lighthearted]Are you actually mansplaining (or did you just not notice my earlier post when I said I am a woman)?[/lighthearted]
More often than not, if there's a bit of wee on the seat in the ladies, it's because there is no toilet paper. This (the running out of paper) seems to be inevitable in bars/clubs at the end of the night, but it's all too common earlier in the evening, including in venues that serve food.
