[Closed] Gay footbalers, bbc 3 monday 21.00

hugging and kissing each other, then swopping shirts, and jumping in a bath together

I must be watching the wrong games.

or is that me stereo typing footballers........ 🙂

TBH Im really not interested in someone's sexual orientation whatsoever. It makes no difference on a day to day basis to anyone but themselves and I fail to see why something so private needs to worn like a badge of honour. 🙄

its tragic that Justin Fashnau is still the only player to come out whilst playing and look what happened to him and hwo he was treated [ his own brother included]
Is it any wonder no one says anything. 😥

It is tragic that no high standing player has come out but I can see why

Only 5- 10 years ago Graham le Suax was being targetted with gay rumours [ married with kids] for which the evidence was thus
!. He read the guardian
2. he did not go clothes shopping with the rest of the squad in milan he went to an art gallery
3. he went camping with 2 males friendsa and they shared a tent

Targetted by players [ Robbie fowler ] and supporters alike

Football has made great efforts over racism and this should be tackled with the same fervour...I wont hold my breath

TBH Im really not interested in someone's sexual orientation whatsoever. It makes no difference on a day to day basis to anyone but themselves and I fail to see why something so private needs to worn like a badge of honour

True, however people with a high public/media profile are in a privileged position where they have the opportunity to influence wider society.

Of course, it should be their choice, not an obligation.

It's not the be-all and end-all, but it can certainly help.

it won't be a very long programme, as there clearly aren't any gay footballers. 😕

TBH Im really not interested in someone's sexual orientation whatsoever. It makes no difference on a day to day basis to anyone but themselves and I fail to see why something so private needs to worn like a badge of honour.

Yeah, I agree. So please don't get all loud and proud you lot when you have kids and I'm sure bigyinn will agree. It's a private thing that makes no difference on a day-to-day basis and shouldn't be worn as a badge of honour.

The thing is Junkyard, Graham le Suax came out of that whole situation looking like a thoughtful intelligent bloke. As this is what he is.

Robbie Fowler also came out of looking like what he actually is - a nasty little thug.

The trouble is, that as John Terry has constantly proved through his career, nasty little thugs are not just tolerated in football, but encouraged. Depressingly, I can't see it changing any time soon

Yeah, I agree. So please don't get all loud and proud you lot when you have kids and I'm sure bigyinn will agree. It's a private thing that makes no difference on a day-to-day basis and shouldn't be worn as a badge of honour.

It is very unfair on children to be adopted by two males. It means they can never get a credit card, bank account, mobile phone, or in fact anything that involves having to quote their mother's maiden name.

Footballers must all be gay - it is called Wendyball by people on here after all.

😆 @ adamW - all these I taught my kid to ride thread filthy dirty breeders flaunting their ways ..always in public weithe thier kids too shwoing they have had sex with eac other Disgusting.

Aye Binners Terry what a disgrace- imagine being expected to shake hands with the person up in court for racially abusing you and he still gets to captain the country...only in football.
Imagine wanting these people as role models for your kids 😯

The sports full of them im sure! ,corruptions the biggest problem !

AdamW - nicely done 😆

You mean mean gay couples can't adopt / have surrogate babies?
Thats outrageous!

Think that's more recent, but point taken. Remember the catholic adoption agencies that demanded they could discriminate because of the evils of homosexuality according to that Jesus chap (who said nothing about the subject)?

The really weird thing is that for some reason the last six months I've been feeling as if I want kids and I have absolutely no idea why! 😀 😕 ❓

TBH Im really not interested in someone's sexual orientation whatsoever. It makes no difference on a day to day basis to anyone but themselves and I fail to see why something so private needs to worn like a badge of honour.

Exactly, it's like judging people on whether they like marmalade or honey on their toast.

bigyinn - Member
TBH Im really not interested in someone's sexual orientation whatsoever. It makes no difference on a day to day basis to anyone but themselves and I fail to see why something so private needs to worn like a badge of honour.

Posted 1 hour ago # Report-Post

so wtf, do most men, always make a point of saying theyre married, or got a girlfreind, ive got a cat, but dont tell everyone i meet ive got a cat.

LOL.

Do they? I dont! If someone asks i'll tell them though. I used to have a cat until we had to have it put down on new years eve. 😥
Perhaps im just a homophobe, but I really dont care (not in a nasty way, im genuinely not bothered / interested).
If you're getting love and respect from someone else does it really matter what sex they are?

I think it depends, bigyinn. I tend to be a bit sensitive about this subject when I've been told in the past that even mentioning MrAdamW in any way is "shoving my lifestyle" in people's faces.

I tend to talk about MrAdamW because (a) we do stuff together and (b) I love him, so when producing anecdotes he tends to be a part of that.

If people just accept two people being together, regardless of sex, then there's no problem.

To some extent I agree with bigyinn - a person's sexual preference is a non-issue in terms of whether or not I approve of them as a human being.

Half of my department at work are gay. We all go out and socialize as a team and we all discuss things that are going on in our social lives without any embarrassment which is exactly as it should be. I don't look at my colleagues and think "he's gay, she's straight etc", for the most part they're friends too.

On the other hand, some of the more macho sports out there could really do with some honest self-appraisal from the participants - Formula One and Football especially. I don't like the idea of gay people feeling marginalised because of something that really shouldn't be an issue for debate.

AdamW, if people take issue with you mentioning MrAdamW, then that's their problem, not yours.
If people reacted the same way if you mentioned that your partner was black for example, they'd rightly be branded a racist.
Probably they older generations may find things a little harder to accept, purely because of the stigma (at the time) associated with being gay etc. The world moves on....
However football seems to me to be associated mainly with the british equivalent of "rednecks", so what chance do those who are gay in the sport stand??

The world cup on Qatar will be interesting then...

Colleague here is going to Dubai in a few weeks with his family (wife and two young boys). I'm actually scared of going abroad to such a place, especially those with strong religion. I can just imagine someone saying "Ah! AdamW is on the plane! Start building the wall/scaffolding/plug in the chair! etc.".

Without bringing up Emsz's thread (cos she's nice 😀 ) it is a pain to be scared of doing what most people consider as OK, and scary as hell to be considered illegal for just existing!

I briefly read emsz's thread and thought it was disgusting that anyone would consider spitting on a LADY in any way acceptable!

disgusting that anyone would consider spitting on a LADY

Didn't want to say on emsz's thread cos it was somewhat OT, but even in this (mainly) enlightened place there still seems to be something worse about stuff happening to women. I'd consider it equally disgusting someone spitting on or hitting (also mentioned) a bloke.

Back OT will be watching this, when I was younger I didn't have any issues with it but I used to wonder what the big thing about gay pride marches and other "shoving it in our faces" stuff was. (as far as I know) It's not about shouting to everyone that you're gay it's about being able to (if so inclined) reveal that fact to other people without getting treated any differently for it. And if influential people (and footballers are in this class) can come out with no associated problems then that makes it easier for "normal" people and if footballers feel they can't then the reverse will probably have some effect.

Aren't ALL footballers gaylords?

There was an excellent article in the Guardian about 10 years ago over the practise of "roasting" which seemed to be a trend among footballers, and how it was really about unexpressed love for each other with the "roastee" as a prophylactic between them to prevent the perceived reputation damage due to any revelations about man love. If true it would seem there are many more gay men in sport than is revealed. TBH there must be as iirc the percentage of "out" homosexuals in society is much greater then the percentage among public figures.

Hopefully this will normalise as the unenlightened are drummed out and eukated, 😆
This would lead to more people having the courage to just be who they want to be rather than being afraid of societies perceptions.

In a pub toilet soemone once asked me about some football game, I told him I had no idea as I wasnt into football, he then asked me 'if I was gay ?'. I was mid flow so did some piss on his stupid ****er shoes.

What Donk said that should be a sticky for every time somone says something about them shoving it in your face/flaunting it.

Here it is, written after the Grosvenor House Hotel incident in 2003. [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1057323,00.html ]What footballers really want: Each other![/url]

D0NK - Member

disgusting that anyone would consider spitting on a LADY

sexist
(insert half a smiley coz I'm half joking)

nsdog - Member

Exactly, it's like judging people on whether they like marmalade or honey on their toast.

Toast! You disgusting, un-natural freak! If you must, do it in private but don't embarass the Forum.

disgusting that anyone would consider spitting on a LADY

What men to do each other is bad enough, but spitting at the opposite sex is pretty abhorrent. I realise im probably being old fashioned given a woman was being spat at, but I guess if you asked most people which was worse, a man spitting at another man or a man spitting at a women, most poeple would say the latter was worse.
Anyway the point being its disgusting regardless, just because a couple were holding hands.
Thanks for the smiley, after the afternoon I've had i need it. 😥

I was going to add something but on reflecton have a smiley and man hug [ if needed] as you seem to have had a bad day

😀

Thanks JY, man hug accepted and reciprocated. Day improved.

I guess if you asked most people which was worse, a man spitting at another man or a man spitting at a women, most poeple would say the latter was worse.

I wouldn't. To do so would display sexism whether or not it's consciously done or not.

Anyway the point being its disgusting regardless

But you already know that by stating the above and I agree, it's disgusting and totally unacceptable in any instance.

Day improved

I hope my post doesn't ruin that for you, merely pointing out a very prevelent attitude.

Not ruined, just making me think about whether my own perceptions need to be adjusted a bit. No bad thing to review ones position from time to time.

Indeed. Like I say, you're not alone, it's a fundamental flaw at the present time; women should be treated with more care than men. Maybe it's a follow-on from misunderstood chivalry or something, I don't know.

FWIW I used to feel the same until I met my other half - I was swiftly adjusted...!

I'm looking forward to this program. I'm mainly hoping it will cast some insight into why the most common thing I get shouted at me by football supporters as I ride past is 'gay' but also why these guys are so afraid to come out.
There must be some seriously ingrained homophobia in the footballing world for it to be so difficult.

It might be a flaw but most switched on ladies of any sexual preference or feminist viewpoint will just allow men to carry on being chivalrous and use it to their advantage. No bad thing.

Listening to Max Clifford earlier on R5 he suggested about 4 or 5 footballers, 2 well known, had spoken to him about being homo/bi-sexual and 'coming out'. Advice seemed to be to keep there gob shut!

Over in Ireland a hurler, Donal Og Cusack, came out a couple of years ago. Don't recall anybody being all that bothered.

There must be some seriously ingrained homophobia in the footballing world for it to be so difficult.

Its more to do with sponsorship, and the huge sums of money they earn as clubs, also as its a semi contact sport, they dont want to be thought of as nancy boys, but real men.(there words not mine).

I wasn't suggesting chivalry should be stamped out - tho some feminists may say it's the thin end of the wedge - it's the "don't hit girls" aspect, erm what about the boys? How about "don't hit people"?
I seem to recall watching In Bruges, Colin Farrell punches a woman, cue sharp intake of breath from audience who didn't seem to mind him belting her SO immediately prior and didn't think her swinging a wine bottle at his head a mitigating circumstance. I wonder how many people would intervene in a fight between 2 blokes, now how many more would intervene between a bloke and a woman? Even if the woman started it and was the attacker* and the bloke just defending himself I reckon he'd get the rougher treatment of the two. (Just a hunch could be wrong)

Sorry getting a bit far off topic.

*I'm sure some women can be just as vicious as some blokes can be.

also as its a semi contact sport, they dont want to be thought of as nancy boys, but real men

A real man, who played real contact sport (and a bit of League, too 😉 ), seen recently
[img] [/img]

Soccer needs someone to do an Alfie. Someone brave enought to come out, and in doing so, to make it "OK" (Even though all normal thinking people know that it really is) to be gay and play soccer.

I got told off my a feminist for describing a woman as a lady. A pointed out that as she was also a post-structuralist she must agree that she couldn't know what i meant when i used the word 'lady'. That shut her up. 😀

Has Gareth Thomas suffered any abuse after he came out?

Ignoring ingrained homophobia, whoever is first is going to get so much attention from the media they might want to stay in the closet just to avoid it.

I never understood why leading men in Hollywood didn't come out, despite all the rumours.

[i]they dont want to be thought of as nancy boys, but real men.(there words not mine). [/i]

Exactly. That's deep seated homophobia right there from them. There is of course no reason why gay men can't be all tough and butch and yet for some reason the footballers and/or sponsors won't accept it.

I suspect it's the same reason I get called gay by supporters when I ride past despite being one hard mofo.

It's because they like it up 'em.

There is of course no reason why gay men can't be all tough and butch

Wasn't Justin Fashanu a boxer to start with anyways & nicknamed Fash the Bash to start with, so hardly stereotypical

Don't know if Gareth Thomas ever recieved abuse whilst playing Union in Wales, but i do know he got a stream of vile abuse from some Warrington fans whilst playing League shortly after he came out.

Pretty brave to say that whilst in the stands, bet they wouldn't dare say it to his face!

I think it's sad in 21st century Britain that we even need to have this debate. I have no interest whatsoever in who anyone sleeps with. I have gay friends and straight friends. To me, they are all just "friends". I don't understand homophobia. Gay people are just "people". You get nice ones and you get ****ing idiots, the same as in any other walk of life. I really think it's time people ot over this stupid & senseless bigotry towards people who are simply different to them.

Some of my best friends are footballers. 😳

Anyone watching?

I'm not sure it has presented anything anywhere near insightful yet.

Isn't this about the macho male attitudes rather than football?

In all the years I've worked on sites, with welders, pipefitters, scaffolders and gas engineers. I've only ever met one who was openly gay. I don't think it's football that's the problem at all?

I'm not sure it has presented anything anywhere near insightful yet.

I'm convinced Amal Fashanu is a hottie & John Fashanu a bit of a c0ck

Is this just all about Fashanu as a brand?

Seriously, what's all this about?

BBC3 documentaries are not as good as their comedies are they?

This is about her and not the issue it was obvious from the first clip of her saying look I'm a model.

Docu-lite, bit of self promotion, she's young and it shows, no revelations.
Echo JF seems a knob.

Edit tempted to seek out the documentary she watched

This is easily the worst documentary I have ever seen by a country mile. Amal fashnu running up and and down Britain trying to goad people into saying they are homophobic, and then critise them for it. Then she interviewed Matt Lucas, whom laughed at (even with) one of the 'homophobic' chants from a Leeds vs Brighton game (we can see you holding hands)

Its almost as if she wanted/ is searching for someone to blame for her uncles death. Be that fans, players, the FA, the media, even her own father.

BBC3 documentaries are not as good as their comedies are they?

Ooof!

....looks like the Our War: Afghanistan docs were a fluke tho. As they were exemplary.

I get the style - it is BBC3 and the idea is to make documentaries accessible by following a presenter who viewers can relate to (aspire to?) on a 'journey'. The cynic in me says it was a vehicle for her. The less cynical bit of me thinks it was a good idea for a documentary, but the producers assumed they'd get more/better access to people in the game than they managed.

Whatever the reason the result was pretty poor. The most interesting people were Lucas (but only because his comments looked incredibly informed against Amal's naivety) and Amaechi. The latter was woefully underused. He should have been her first call, and followed up on some of the things he said.

did you really not know what to expect from a documentary about gay footballers?

[i]In all the years I've worked on sites, with welders, pipefitters, scaffolders and gas engineers. I've only ever met one who was openly gay. I don't think it's football that's the problem at all?[/i]

Were all those people football fans?

What about the one that was openly gay?

The only good thing about this documentary was the Beastie Boys track they used.

Not as if they were going to name names is it?

Soccer needs someone to do an Alfie. Someone brave enought to come out, and in doing so, to make it "OK" (Even though all normal thinking people know that it really is) to be gay and play soccer.

POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Not just Warrington btw, Wigan and Leeds as well.Again, pack mentality.

Were all those people football fans?
What about the one that was openly gay?

He's a massive F1 fan. Ive always admired him for being brave enough to come out in such a macho environment.

I don't know what you're getting at though.

Watched it and thought Amal Fahnau was a real hottie, and her dad was a media obbsessed fool, who just saw his promotion as a major point of the interview.What they must have edited out of his conversation would be eye opening.

The young gay footballer that was out, looked like any other straight footballer, and his mates didnt have any problems with that.

As for the ex player who talked the talk in front of the camera for tv matches, what a waste of time his comments where, he really struggled to say Homo sexual and Ga y, (gaps left because thats how he said it).

Anyone have a link to the fashnau documentry about his suicide mentioned in the programe.

Finally will it bring more footballers and sportsmen out, who knows, but at least its a start.

I tried to watch it but it really was poor. The clunkiness of the Media Studies GCSE coursework (that's how it felt) got in the way of a serious discussion of a serious issue.

"I asked several England Internationals for an interview but they were too busy..." FFS.

[i]I don't know what you're getting at though[/i]

I'm still trying to understand if I have the link between football and homophobia correct.

samuri - Member
I don't know what you're getting at though

I'm still trying to understand if I have the link between football and homophobia correct.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Seriously, I think I'm missing the point here. I'm just comparing one male dominated industry with another, that from my observations, I don't think the issues are particularly related to football, and that 'coming out' in that kind of industry must be very tough, regardless whether you're a painter and decorator or a winger.