[Closed] Frugal cars

So you can afford a new car and coke and hookers? You must be doing a lot better than most of us then. Though I'm a bit confused why you kept your previous car (not a modern Mondeo, which you've also apparently owned) for 9 years in that case.

You got a chip on the shoulder? Just because I happened to have a 9 year old shopping/shit carrying hack doesn't mean I'm poor. I've got 3 other cars, but they are all totally irrelevant to this discussion.

Maybe it's a Ford thing - the computer on mine is usually >10% optimistic (all my quoted figures are from filling the tank).

moshi - you seem to be having a SOH failure, and missing the point that buying a new car is throwing a lot of money away compared to buying a s/h one. Money which could be spent on other things - if you really are in a position where that makes no difference to your finances, then that does make you very wealthy compared to most. We are after all discussing frugality.

As it was, by quoting that figure you gave no useful information on how frugal it actually is - though as discussed, with a purchase price of £20k one of those is never going to be as frugal as my £4k Mondeo. I'm also intrigued by your expectation of significantly better economy as it gets older.

BTW when did you have a Mondeo, you haven't clarified.

Why do you give a shit?

moshimonster - Member

43 mpg may be rubbish for you eco driver types, but it's actually quite good for me, in fact a PB and as I said the engine is not even run in and I'm sure it will get significantly better - maybe even hit 50 mpg. Certainly better than my Mondeo or Volvo ever was. I was just pointing that out too.

I can beat my mondeo down below 40 but it takes an effort. In normal driving- ie not thrashing it, but not thinking at all about economy either- it averages low 50s, with my economy foot on it can scratch 60 but that's pretty rare. The trip computer's pretty close to accurate,

Course, it then spoils the economy by blowing up about every 5000 miles 😆

moshi - you seem to be having a SOH failure, and missing the point that buying a new car is throwing a lot of money away compared to buying a s/h one. Money which could be spent on other things - if you really are in a position where that makes no difference to your finances, then that does make you very wealthy compared to most. We are after all discussing frugality.

Ah I see now! First I never said buying a new car was a cheap way of motoring. Must have mistaken me for someone else there. But I did point out that a new car in general is a nice thing to own and sometimes people miss that point when doing the math (somebody did ask). It's not throwing money away either, because you do actually have a new car to show for it. It's just more expensive than buying an old car. Only you can decide if it's worth it or not and that will almost certainly depend on your finances.

I can beat my mondeo down below 40 but it takes an effort. In normal driving- ie not thrashing it, but not thinking at all about economy either- it averages low 50s,

That's about in line with the Honest John real mpg figures depending on what Mondeo/engine spec you have. As I said the new Qashqai is even better - although not with my driving style.

[quote=moshimonster ]It's not throwing money away either, because you do actually have a new car to show for it.

The minute you drive out of the showroom it's a s/h car. Cost of those first miles whilst you appreciate the new car smell is huge. I suspect even with your huge wealth you could find something quite fun to spend a few thousands on.

I still reckon coke and hookers beats a new car 😉

with a purchase price of £20k one of those is never going to be as frugal as my £4k Mondeo

Of course not, but I was just pointing out that frugality is not the only factor in deciding what car to drive. Otherwise we'd all be driving £4K Mondeos (I think)

[quote=Northwind ]The trip computer's pretty close to accurate

Is yours a much older one? As I mentioned above, the one on my 08 Mk4 is pretty rubbish.

moshi - it wasn't until after my first reply to you that we established how heavy your right foot is. Oh, and you should probably check the thread title, the OP, and what most of us are discussing.

so - are the mpg's above measured or via flaky computer?

On both my Prius and Passat the computers are pretty accurate.

The minute you drive out of the showroom it's a s/h car. Cost of those first miles whilst you appreciate the new car smell is huge. I suspect even with your huge wealth you could find something quite fun to spend a few thousands on.

I still reckon coke and hookers beats a new car

No shit. A few years ago I might have agreed and would have maybe bought an ex-demo or a 1 year old car instead of new. But when you actually consider it, the likes of DTD can often put you in a new car for about the same price, sometimes less. I was discussing this with a VW sales guy when I told him that I could buy a brand new Passat for less (several grand less) than he was trying to flog their demo cars. He said it's because some buyers (usually company buyers) will happily pay a premium to get a car instantly rather than wait 3 months for a factory order.

Obviously you can save more by buying a 2 or 3 year old car (and I usually do that on expensive cars) but then you have to accept that it will not be factory fresh and at worst case might have some hidden history. For a car under £25K I just can't be arsed anymore and it's nice just to be able to order the exact spec you want.

we are definantly thinking of different ends of the markets here..,....

i have 2 cars - both reliable , both clean and tidy less than 10 years old - one owned since it was 3 years old and both are the spec i wanted.

in total they cost me less than 5k.

moshi - it wasn't until after my first reply to you that we established how heavy your right foot is. Oh, and you should probably check the thread title, the OP, and what most of us are discussing.

When I wrote my first post on this thread, I wrongly presumed most people would drive like me in the real world. But obviously I was wrong and people here really do take eco driving seriously. But as you have hinted, yourself the real cost of motoring has nothing to do with fuel economy.

aracer - Member

Is yours a much older one? As I mentioned above, the one on my 08 Mk4 is pretty rubbish.

Yeah, mk3 2.2. It used to be a fair bit better tbh but it's lost a few mpg over the last year or so, either from the cheapass turbo I put in it, or some flesh wound from the old one exploding. Or some other random Fordian defect with a sensor or something.

Oh, and you should probably check the thread title, the OP, and what most of us are discussing.

This quote below from the OP was what prompted my first and only intended response to this thread. I thought it was relevant in terms of "real world figures" and how fuel economy and perceived aerodynamic performance might differ. The only thing I didn't get across was that my personal eco figures are below par although I did compare to a conventional diesel estate.

Anyway, just curious about real world figures, and pointers on economical (but fun/quirky) cars to think about. It's strange that most cars don't look obviously aerodynamic, but perhaps it's not possible to tell how aerodynamic something is by shape alone.

the real cost of motoring has nothing to do with fuel economy.

Thats not true, its one of the factors and quite an important one, the cost of the vehicle is only the primary cost if your borrowing and paying interest or need the cash for something else.

If its just sat in you building society earning 2% you may as well spend 10k+ on a car that will save you £500 per year and still have a residual value after a few years.

If your cars paid for and you don't want to change it you can still drive carefully and increase the mpg buy a good percentage. you'll also probably increase it useable lifespan.

Having said all, reduced mpg is just one of the many benefits of driving smoothly and even if it didnt reduce mpg your passengers will still appreciate it.

What is DTD?

Love the way people on here expect you to be able to decipher acronymns!

charliemort - Member

What is DTD?

Love the way people on here expect you to be able to decipher acronymns!

I presume it means day to day. As in, "Day to day I like to argue with similarly pedantic keyboard ninjas about the relative frugality, or lack thereof, of boring cars". 🙂

"you can still drive carefully and increase the mpg buy a good percentage. you'll also probably increase it useable lifespan."

someone gets it !

look after your car it will look after you.

Thats not true, its one of the factors and quite an important one, the cost of the vehicle is only the primary cost if your borrowing and paying interest or need the cash for something else.

I disagree, unless you are buying an old shed, the cost of the vehicle and its associated depreciation will likely dwarf any difference in fuel consumption.

Hmm, MX5 is nice but not particularly frugal. Mine gets 30-ish mpg. Mostly driving in town, some motorway cruising, some foot to the floor power slide stuff.

For the 3000 miles a year I do though, it would take ages to recoup the fuel economy a 60mpg turbo diesel would get me.

Also, I'm not dead inside.

one service on a modern warrentied euro box done to warrenty standard by an qualified mechanic with the correct standard parts would wipe out almost all of the 500 quid "fuel savings" FOR Me .... if you dont like getting your hands dirty your experiance may differ

I agree with moshimonster.
Depreciation and running costs are much more important than mpg - especially with new prices being silly high and repair costs having gone through the roof.

i remember a colleague of mine stuck his BMW into a garage for an oil and filter change.

and he came to me shortly after and asked me what a normal price for a filters and oil service was

i told him.... oh about 150-200 quid id imagine.

he just got billed 250 at the beemer independant locally.

then he told me that back him in his native azerbijan - he would have his oil and filters in ins subaru forester changed at the local mechanic for 20 manat...... such is life in the uk - cant have minimum standards of living AND cheap prices. labour has to be paid for from somewhere.

[quote=moshimonster ]Obviously you can save more by buying a 2 or 3 year old car (and I usually do that on expensive cars) but then you have to accept that it will not be factory fresh and at worst case might have some hidden history.

Far more frugal though - I'm not sure what hidden history you expect to get with a 2-3yo car which you wouldn't discover with all the usual checks and would more than make up for the cost saving (I have to admit I have no idea what DTD is either - my newest ever car purchase was 18 months old and almost a 50% saving on list price). As I keep saying you really do pay a lot of money for that factory fresh feel, when I suspect most people without your level of wealth could probably find something which gives them more enjoyment for that money.

[quote=moshimonster ]When I wrote my first post on this thread, I wrongly presumed most people would drive like me in the real world. But obviously I was wrong and people here really do take eco driving seriously.

I wouldn't say I particularly practice eco driving, simply anticipate, drive smoothly and don't mash my foot to the floor. I prefer driving that way. Can do proper eco driving if I want, but don't normally bother. I suspect most other posters on here are similar - it's really not that hard to manage 50mpg in most modern standard diesels (or smaller petrol cars) provided you don't spend your time stuck in traffic.

Also, I'm not dead inside.

Neither am I.

DTD = Drive The Deal?

Far more frugal though - I'm not sure what hidden history you expect to get with a 2-3yo car which you wouldn't discover with all the usual checks and would more than make up for the cost saving (I have to admit I have no idea what DTD is either - my newest ever car purchase was 18 months old and almost a 50% saving on list price). As I keep saying you really do pay a lot of money for that factory fresh feel, when I suspect most people without your level of wealth could probably find something which gives them more enjoyment for that money.

DTD = Drive The Deal. Back door legit sales directly from franchised dealers, usually to make up their sales targets. Can save 20%+ on some cars and they are brand new factory orders. Pretty much offsets the first year depreciation and used values still seem to track dealer showroom prices.

What did you buy that had managed to do 50% off list in 18 months? In reality I bet they were selling well below list from new. Most ordinary cars typically take about 3 years to lose half their value. BMWs, VWs, Audis longer.

[quote=wilburt ]the cost of the vehicle is only the primary cost if your borrowing and paying interest or need the cash for something else.
If its just sat in you building society earning 2% you may as well spend 10k+ on a car that will save you £500 per year and still have a residual value after a few years.

So in a few years you sell the car for £4k, having also put your £500 a year fuel saving into your building society. You now have £5.5k in your account instead of £10k. I'd suggest the cost of the vehicle was quite a significant cost whatever interest you're getting or paying.

[quote=moshimonster ]I disagree, unless you are buying an old shed, the cost of the vehicle and its associated depreciation will likely dwarf any difference in fuel consumption.

Larger than, yes (see me answer above to the same point you're answering, so we're on the same wavelength). Dwarf, no - I don't think my 4yo when I bought it car was an old shed, but expect the effective depreciation to be only £500-£600 a year, whilst on 10k miles a year I'm paying £200 a year less with my lighter right foot (clearly that difference can also be found by choosing a different model).

[quote=moshimonster ]What did you buy that had managed to do 50% off list in 18 months? In reality I bet they were selling well below list from new. Most ordinary cars typically take about 3 years to lose half their value. BMWs, VWs, Audis longer.

Pug 406 in '99 (sold a couple of years ago). I did look at what deals I could get on a new one - including importing one - and it was rather less than list, but would have still been costing me several thousand a year in depreciation for that first 18 months. Wasn't initially planning on buying that new, but it was what came up at a good price.

Mid - Late 90s pugs like that aracer were of the bombproof era ... If you could live with the odd window nae working.

No dpfs , dmfs , egrs.

Some of my buddys got star ship miles- 3-500k out of their agri diesel engines - 8 valve , mechanical turbos just kept plodding away.

Some of the tds took quite a tune as well i believe.

I got 220k out of a 1.8diesel fiesta from that era but typical ford . The body ( or rather the chassis rails on the monocoque ) rotted round it by the time it was 10 years old it was fit for the skip - their pugs of similar age were still going strong.

[quote=trail_rat ]Mid - Late 90s pugs like that aracer were of the bombproof era ... If you could live with the odd window nae working.

It's almost as if you're psychic - had a drivers window which didn't retract for the last few years. All because of a couple of broken plastic clips - did mean to bodge it, but never got round to it. Engine was still sweet after 160k but some other stuff starting to wear out, though bodywork was all galvanised so no corrosion at all.

Pug 406 in '99 (sold a couple of years ago). I did look at what deals I could get on a new one - including importing one

Imports worked well back in those days with favourable exchange rates. I imported a new UK spec BMW 330Ci from Germany in 2000, kept it for a year and sold it for the same money. It was a special deal through work contacts though - I think 20% off German list which was exceptional back then.

Just for moshimonster...

My drive home this evening driving steadily, but normally. It's always higher on the way home because the traffic is flowing better.

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And gratuitous car pic seeing as I washed it at the weekend.

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Anyway who buys cars anymore I thought it was more fashionable to PCP and have something
you couldn't afford 🙂

Light blue touch paper and stand weelll baccck....

Anyway who buys cars anymore I thought it was more fashionable to PCP and have something
you couldn't afford

Also fashionable to argue that it's actually cheaper to finance too. The sales guys are good at convincing people that for sure.