MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Dunno, isn't it stay the fark away from large animals generally if loose - bloody simple. It's an animal, it's not your trained dog or cat ?
As said earlier, this type of cattle are generally pretty docile and fine to be amongst, however they had calves - which were unknown and unseen to/by the OP. Had the OP known this he wouldn’t have gone near them. Sadly the cows turned on him, there should’ve been warnings or the herd kept away from Rights of ways. He quite rightly raised this issue with the correct authorities, sadly the farmer decided he had to sell/kill the herd
Dunno, isn’t it stay the fark away from large animals generally if loose
Yep, indeed. I do lots of walking and if I'm unsure will give animals a very wide berth or find an alternative route. But they were unseen by the OP coupled with inadequate signage meant there was indeed a risk.
There had been previous incidents which had been dealt with "privately" (whatever that means) so sounds like there were missed opportunities to address any potential problems. A sad outcome but not one the OP had any control over.
And yet there is a growing call for rewilding and an introduction of species like wolves and lynx to the British countryside.
I'm not sure they are talking about introducing wolves to Stanage Plantation. Although it would make the bouldering more interesting. 🙂
This is effectively an outdoorsy theme park less than an hour from two major cities. Occasional conflict with farming interests is inevitable given the scale of visitor numbers.
In this case, it may well be earlier incidents with loose dogs has triggered this ongoing aggressive response in the herd. TBH if my herd had caused significant injury to walkers on such a popular path, as in the earlier incident where someone had to be airlifted, I would already be considering whether it is appropriate to keep them there in future.
The OP has done nothing wrong. His dog was on a lead. The calves were hidden. And you do tend to make a judgement (wrongly in this case) that a herd situated on such a busy track would be acclimatised to the presence of walkers and dogs.
The incident could have resulted in serious injury or worse to him or his family. While it is a shame that the herd has clearly been repeatedly spooked in the past, this is not the kind of thing that could be 'dealt with privately', as the farmer would prefer.
I’ve tried to inform the braying mob on a couple of fb pages, sadly it’s like peeing into the wind
You must be joking, this is a NIMBY wet dream. Even though there was no mountain bike involved in this incident at all, the mere fact that this was posted (probably ill advisedly) on a mountain bike forum will have them frothing and ranting. The generally good advice on this thread and the odd photo of (horror of horrors) people (and even kids) enjoying the outdoors on bikes, won’t make a jot of difference. The (obviously joking and flippant) comment about cheap steaks however, will be picked up and requoted over and over.
FWIW I love riding in the Peaks and the vast majority of walkers are nice people enjoying the countryside too. A tiny minority are just perpetually grumpy people who, if they really looked at themselves, would realise that their real problem is that they hate everything and everybody - and are incapable of taking joy in anything!
But that is the same anywhere.
And yet there is a growing call for rewilding and an introduction of species like wolves and lynx to the British countryside.
Sounds wonderful, but nowhere near me, right?
There are now “the true story” vids of an interview with the farmer being posted. Not watched yet but can’t help but feel it’ll be very one sided and lack facts about the OP’s complaint
And 😂 at your last paragraph
From the forums when pushed to get the balance
"The Birch's explained they had very little explanation & a confused one in the video. We only know his first name from an online forum post and of course can't ask Alex and Steph for his full name because of GDPR rules. If he wants to chat he can message us."
Sadly wrong <st&dt;cattle </st&dt; pet in the wrong place,
ftfy
I hope the farmer's business can recover from this.
😢
Me too Drac. The BBC article reports that the farmer advises ‘there was no financial incentive to having them’, so fingers crossed.
Given the above and the HSE recommendations, I’m still confused why the cattle weren’t kept on the moor, but not brought into calf ?
Apart from looking novel these cows are totally out of place aren't they? They're certainly not indigenous to the area. I guess they keep the gorse at bay as would any livestock.
Apart from looking novel these cows are totally out of place aren’t they? They’re certainly not indigenous to the area. I guess they keep the gorse at bay as would any livestock.
This is a local moor for local cows.
Farmer talks some rubbiah too. He's pretending having cows up there is natural (err no, you put them there to be fattened up for meat) and that it's their home (pretty sure they'd prefer a nice lowland meadow if you were willing to provide one).
And suspiciously new too.......
Almost as though someone with an axe to grind has got themselves a login just for that purpose......
Best ignored.
I do have a degree of sympathy with Marcus, when you do a little of googling
Even Farmers Weekly gives advice
The farmer admitted that this wasnt the first instance, and that these were sorted out “privately”. Once reported the HSE have a duty to investigate, they made a suggestion how the farmer chose to react was his decision and his decision alone
Advice given by the HSE
HSE advice is that, if possible, farmers should use fields or areas not used by the public when cattle are calving or have calves at foot, especially during periods of greater public use such as public or school holidays.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais17ew.pdf
Once reported the HSE have a duty to investigate, they made a suggestion how the farmer chose to react was his decision and his decision alone
Agreed.
So half of the herd had to be slaughtered and the other half sold, both of which were devastating for the farmer.
The responsibility for this decision lies with the farmer and no-one else.
Or read any HSE guidance
Billybobs.
What do you prefer componentry-wise? Are you a SRAM or Shimano man?
Or wheel size? Where do you stand on that?
Or (engage amateur sleuth mode) just someone who has no interest in mountain biking and has just got yourself a login today to have a pop and stir the pot a bit?
Just to recap, the OP to this thread was on foot with a dog, no bike involved.
I've read it all. There is plenty of Peak District to go at, if one doesn't understand farming, which shaped and keeps the place looking so spectacular, stay away. Don't blithely cause friction because of your inflexible determination to stick with a pre determined agenda. People's livelihoods should not be poor at risk because the general public keep demanding more rights. Farm animals are unpredictable - should they be removed from the Peak District altogether so that self righteous leisure seekers don't have to walk/cycle/dick about elsewhere...? I think not.
Morons don’t bother with facts when they can disprove their Ill informed opinions
See brexit voters
Billy, look up the impacts of foot and mouth and you'll understand why maintaining access (legally ensrined rights dontchaknow) is considered more valuable to rural economies than farming nowadays. Without rural tourism places like the Peaks would be stuffed.
You’re being utterly ridiculous, and again showing you really haven’t read what has been said on here
Billy Bob read the HSE guidance to farmers.
SRAM, 29" - ideally steel framed. WTF has it got to do with cycling? It's a topic about whether people are capable of taking responsibility for their own actions and not running to the authorities just because an animal looked at them in a funny way. It took years to get the countryside opened up to the benefit of everyone and that created a delicate balance with landowners. As far as I'm concerned, visitors take second place in that relationship.
What absolute toss. The Peak district doesn't look the way that it does because of a the price of a few cups of tea and some scones. Tourism is completely over-blown propaganda touted by the Peak park authority to justify their ridiculous jobs and it just happens to support people's obsession with exercising 'their rights' - you are frankly clueless. I know literally hundreds of farmers in Derbyshire and not one of them recognises tourism as a panacea for the rural economy.
Luckily for wider society you're wrong. The balance is in favour of access to the countryside where unsafe and avoidable farming practices are outlawed.
Hahaha youre priceless. Your farmers sound a lot like the shooting and hunting communities who have also failed to get with the times and are now being forced to. Rural communities do also include non farmers by the way, farming is in a minority.
Billybob;
what should the OP have done in your opinion? Given others had also had similar experiences and the farmer dealt with them privately but the herd was left there, is it not reasonable to think that more should be / have been done?
I take your point that closing RoW's crossing livestock fields would be a solution but in the absence of that happening, and the risk thus remaining, does someone have to be injured first?
The figures tend to disagree
Farmers seem to do pretty well out of tourism
- YNot Festival
- Eroica
- Horse Trials / Game Fair
- Farmers Market
- Bakewell Show depends on tourists
- numerous camp sites / camping barns / B&B
CSB - you're the uninformed here. You've already decided that highland cattle which originate on Moorland and rough grazing can exist happily on lowland meadows which are far too rich for them. And why? So that you can peddle across said Moor and try to impress your mates without any dirty cows to contend with? And this wider society - is that your MTB community that you are referring to? Because you don't speak for the generations of people who live and have created/maintained this environment for hundreds of years. You probably think the Moors are entirely natural too don't you? You may find that the openness you crave for your hobby becomes significantly more constrained in the future as landowners seem to take legitimate steps to protect their livelihoods following the Baslow edge debacle. That will be karma taking effect....
As far as I’m concerned, visitors take second place in that relationship.
That must include your good self, of course.
Very difficult to define who is a ‘visitor’ in any situation. How would we deal with Dark Peak / White Peak crossover?
Technically you could be said to be a ‘visitor’ anywhere after you leave your front door.
Or is this a ‘local’ line of argument?
I didn't want to get drawn into this debate but feel I have to. In many respects I agree with all that billybobs says. The countryside, whether a national park, just your average farmland area, or the wild savanna of Africa, is a place where you go either to make a living, or to have some sort of recreational experience. If the latter then you have to accept a large amount of personal responsibility for your actions. The countryside is NOT a theme park for your amusement. Walking through the shop floor of a farmer where dangerous and unpredictable machinery is operating (cattle), the responsibility for your safety should fall to you, not the owner of the cattle. If you were climbing on Stanage Edge and a hold pulled resulting in injury, would you get HSE to follow that up with the landowner? Fair enough if the farmer had asked you to go that way as an employee, then that is when they should be involved.
I know all about having a duty of care to the public etc, but at the end of the day the first duty of care should be to yourself via a far greater degree of personal responsibility for all your actions. Unless someone is forcing you to do something/making you do something as part of your employment, then when shit happens to you, then it is first and foremost your fault. Stop looking for others to blame.
*pedal
Actually to some extent moors are more natural than fields
And this wider society – is that your MTB community that you are referring to?
You may find that the openness you crave for your hobby becomes significantly more constrained in the future
Lots of ‘you’ and ‘your’ creeping in now. By the way, given that this whole issue was about someone on foot with a dog, what does mountain biking have to do with it?
The Peak district doesn’t look the way that it does because of a the price of a few cups of tea and some scones. Tourism is completely over-blown propaganda touted by the Peak park authority to justify their ridiculous jobs and it just happens to support people’s obsession with exercising ‘their rights’ – you are frankly clueless.
And yet tourism is worth a great deal more to the economy of the Peak District than farming. So basically landowners and their tenants are in reality stewarding the attraction from year to year, primarily for the benefit of visitors. The illusion of rural agriculture is in reality subsidised up to the eyeballs by the very bureaucrats you profess to hate.
Theotherjonv - the difficulty in preserving the balance between legitimate use of land for agriculture and tourism, is that animals are inherently unpredictable. The OP in my opinion should have removed himself from the vicinity and learned a common server lesson from the encounter. Farmers have a difficult job balancing all of the complexities of earning a living in such densely touristed places. I do not agree with everybody running of to the authorities because the feel scared by farm animals. How will that ever resolve?? What I don't want to see is an escalation of conflict between people who rely on the land that they own to make a living and the rest of us who are just out to treat the place as an extension to our own gardens. I do not want to see every footpath out bridleway fenced off because farmers are forced to protect themselves from victimisation but it may start to happen. Common sense, consideration and an understanding of risk by those who visit is all that is required. Take another path, go somewhere else - you can cross the whole national park in a day by thousands of different routes, why the hell should one small moor be so essential to anyone's day?
I think the issue of concern is dangerous cows not dirty cows Bob. And i'd love the moors to revert to natural forest. Lastly, I'll refer you to the crow act and those legally enshrined access rights.
Billybobs - I appreciate your point of view and I know it’s one widely held in the farming community. I’m sure it’s a constant battle and the solution is probably in the middle ground somewhere. I think the HSE recognise this by advising the cattle generally posed an acceptable risk (in the context of the country side) to remain on the moorland for the majority of the year and only the mothers be moved when they had young.
“The OP in my opinion should have removed himself from the vicinity”
🤦🏻♂️
Actually, folks, I don’t think any of this is particularly helpful.
I have no idea why the OP actually posted onto a mountain bike forum as he was on foot when the incident occurred. It has nothing to do with mountain biking, so I think this thread is a potentially damaging red herring that could become ‘The Story’ if it gets out of hand.
I am going to stop posting on this as I fear it will degenerate and then reappear later as a stick to beat us with. I think everyone else should too.
Billybob, you have some legitimate concerns despite the local-centric tone of many of your posts.
I do think the whole incident was regrettable, but have to emphasise again that it was an incident involving a person on foot with a dog. No bike involved.
Walking through the shop floor of a farmer where dangerous and unpredictable machinery is operating (cattle), the responsibility for your safety should fall to you, not the owner of the cattle.
There are already laws which outlaw certain breeds known for aggression near rights-of-way. The responsibility for safety does not fall solely to the visitor, it is shared. If you have a herd which you know can be aggressive towards walkers (perhaps because one had to be airlifted off your land ..) then it falls to the farmer to consider whether this was a freak one-off or a pattern of behaviour, especially on one of the busiest footpaths in the county. No-one else is qualified to judge.
If you choose to take no action, and the incident is repeated, then it can come as no surprise when someone in authority is asked to step in to remind you of your responsibilities. If the HSE had found the farmer's approach to be reasonable and proportionate, then no recommendation would have been made.
The shop floor analogy is a good one though. If you have an area where a dangerous piece of equipment is left unsupervised, then it is prudent to restrict public access to that area entirely. If you have an area where public access cannot be restricted, you don't leave your lathe running for people to wander up to.
Marcus - I am not surprised that you justify your actions as the right thing to do, if you tell yourself that for long enough I'm sure you will stop feeling responsible for causing such dramatic, devastating and unnecessary results. Maybe next time you can convince yourself that
You have 'every right' to take your dog and family into a herd of cattle - do it often enough and you'll probably never need to be troubled by cows ever again because they'll all have to be moved! Or Maybe you should publish something in the Farmers Guardian letting them know when you're visiting and the fields can be cleared in advance nto make it a bit easier for you. Personally, I think that if people get into bother with livestock, that's their own fault, not the farmer's or the animals'. A sign saying 'enter at your own risk' is all that should be required.
billybob1969 - how about some transparency, you know when you've had a break from throwing insults at users on a forum you've just joined. Who are you? What's your interest in this? Are you the farm owner or related to the farm owner?
Billy - I don’t think the sign even needs to mention the word risk as that should be a given. It need only be informative advising ‘cows and calves’.
Take another path, go somewhere else –
You have ‘every right’ to take your dog and family into a herd of cattle
AIUI he didn't take his family into a herd of cattle, but was legitimately walking on a RoW when he encountered the herd, unaware they had calves with them. I don't think it was a conscious decision to do it, and I'm not sure how you can plan your day to avoid stuff that you don't know is there. I don't think any warning was present (maybe I missed that) despite there having apparently been incidents before. Unless you're suggesting that the countryside be made off limits in case it's being grazed?
I grew up in the country, albeit rural Oxfordshire not the peaks so well aware of the rural community but miles less encumbered by massive tourism, so I'm sympathetic to the influx of tourists and the impact that has on farmers in the peaks. But, it is a fact that tourist townies do visit the peaks in large numbers, many of whom will be less aware than the OP and potentially more at risk of doing the wrong thing and it turning out worse, and while 'they should be more aware' and 'animals can be unpredictable' is a valid PoV I wonder if there are better ones?
Billy - you initially made posts that made some sense, not that I agree completely with what you're saying, but happy to discuss with reasoned arguments from either side.
But now you're sounding like a bit (actually, a lot) of an idiot, so suggest it's time to move on.
Sadly, this whole topic has become skewed and conflicted by whether or not it should be on this site and whether land owners should have any rights if people choose to wander amongst livestock.
The fact is, this is an important issue for all of us who want to go out and enjoy the countryside.
The moor in question is very familiar to me and there are nine different entry points onto it, so there was categorically never an occasion where a person could not avoid or circumnavigate the livestock with just the smallest of deviations. It's that simple. See a cow, don't go near it.
Also, as it is a 'right to roam' moorland, nobody has to follow one footpath or route and the passageway along the bottom of the crag has never been populated by cattle, they mainly loitered around the Eaglestone or monument, but certainly preferred the higher ground, so again - an easy conflict to avoid.
Despite walking through that land literally hundreds of times, with dogs, and having also ridden over it, I have never encountered difficulties with those animals through the application of a little common sense. Yet I have seen many people trying to push their way through the herd, pet the cows and approach the calves, which is just inviting an issue.
Furthermore, I'm not going to continue arguing the point about the perceived benefits of tourism in the Peak District - I can see both sides of that debate, which incidentally includes damage to farmland and property, inconsiderate behaviour, rubbish dumped, congestion, parking problems, fires, vandalism etc that mass tourism brings (along with a bit of income for tea shops etc) and I reiterate that if farming in the area diminishes, the economic viability of maintaining that landscape through tourism vanishes, so I'll just leave that there.
I'll reiterate a point I tried to make earlier. It is no hardship across the whole of the Peak District to view all livestock with prudence, accept that there may be risks in entering land where animals are kept and give them a wide berth or choose not to enter. The rapidly escalating problem is one of a snowflake generation, where everyone wants some higher authority to sort out their gripes so that they can keep banging on about their rights.
As mountain bikers - this is a relevant topic and should of course be discussed on this forum, despite the OP being a walker, and despite the various accusations about my intentions, I joined this forum as a relapsed mountain biker looking to get back into it.
So instead of people ranting on about their rights, rights of way and how much more important mountain biking is than sheep, I think it would be better if people accepted that the countryside is much more than a leisure facility regardless of what your particular reason to visit.
Whether we like it or not, those landowners have rights too - including the right to fence in footpaths (not on right to roam areas - no need to take it all so literally...) and I for one do not want every walk or bike ride to be constrained to views between fences or additional gates to contend with, but that could become a very real and inconvenient reality.
So there it is - one unnecessary and entirely avoidable complaint creates a tsunami of effects - and one day we may all look back at this and recognise this as a point where arguing that we are always in the right, just because there is a footpath over somebody else's property, may not have been the most intelligent way to protect our freedoms.
im not sure where I stand on this tbh - I feel for the guy who reported it and obviously for the herd just minding there own business.....
problem is, as easy as it is to blame people for being naïve, the fact of the matter is not everyone is educated on the great outdoors, hell a lot of people are not even educated very well!
and if you are not a regular rambler or walker, you may suddenly find yourself in deep trouble, without really being prepared for it or even have any knowledge of it before its too late
the key for me would be for the farmer/owner or even council to provide much needed signing on EVERY entry point to where the herd is based, i know its a vast area, but its the only way you could say for sure that everyones done everything possilbe to ensure safety and precaution, i dont read every sign going when im out, but if it warned you theres possible imminent danger then it would at least make you think twice - but again some people wont read it, have no idea how to act around the herd and will just panic and blame everyone else for their lack of understanding
but it is a tricky one - would i have complained to the council of a close escape? probably not, would i have gone into the field again? NO, id avoid it and likely shit myself at the same time...im sure its happened more than once and a lot of dog owners think they have some given right to just let the dogs run wild and do what the hell the like (not the OP's case as his was on a lead), which is a recipe for disaster with calves and mothers - but people are unaware of these things, not everyone who goes out for a walk in a field is a seasoned rambler who understands everything outdoorsy, sometimes people think with no logic, and allow themselves to be put in silly situations.
but as somebody else has pointed many times over above, if you put a seemingly tetchy bunch of big ass cows/bull with calves in a field thats regularly frequented by walkers and dogs, you are going to have some conflict, it kind of has to ask the question (as beautiful as they are to look at) why on earth they are roaming in a very busy field?!
im torn really - im not sure anyone wins, and i would feel guilty to see all the herd have been slaughtered off 1 official complaint - surely something could have been done to rectify it, given no one was ACTUALLY injured?!
i would feel guilty to see all the herd have been slaughtered off 1 official complaint – surely something could have been done to rectify it, given no one was ACTUALLY injured?!
there were prior injuries.
no one ordered the cattle to the slaughterhouse other than the farmer.
Billybobs, what a eloquent and well expressed point of view that I for one whole heartedly agree with.
jam bo
Subscriber
i would feel guilty to see all the herd have been slaughtered off 1 official complaint – surely something could have been done to rectify it, given no one was ACTUALLY injured?!
there were prior injuries.
no one ordered the cattle to the slaughterhouse other than the farmer.
well he said he had no where else to put them - so i guess he had no choice, unless he was just doing it to make a point (stubborn farmer and all that)
Thanks Singlesman, I'm just aware, as a former farmer and a long-time Peak District resident, that tourism itself carries some responsibilities. Not least of all, to those who manage the land.
Oscillate Wildly, it is a grey area. Personally, I think that the Peak Park Authority is consistently negligent in informing people of the inherent risks of accessing working farmland. Their agenda is so pro-tourism that people are inadvertently treating it an urban park and expecting the same safeguards.
More signage might help, but as one member posted - if a farmer posts signs and somebody gets hurt then they are almost in admission of a problem and potentially liable.
Therefore, I think the onus is on the park authority to educate the people that they are so eagerly encouraging into the park. I also think that the authority should take some liability when there are incidents of this nature. Farmers don't have much choice regarding rights of way, they are just trying to live with them and they gain nothing from that.
billybobs- you're very scathing about tourists and the "bit of extra income for tea shops", but based on National Parks England's "Valuing England's National Parks" report, agriculture employs 10% of the population in National Parks, whilst tourism employs 34%. Turnover for agriculture is £811m, compared to £961m for food and accomodation services, and £314m for arts and recreation alone (there's no single tourism category, but there are other figures that could be added to the tourism total whilst the agriculture figure is too high because it also includes forestry and fishing). People coming to walk, ride and (where they're allowed to) drive are, these days, a much bigger contributor to the national park's economy than farming. And I don't think a bit of rewilding would be a bad thing.
It sounds like the farmer hasn't acted appropriately based on the HSE's recommendations - they asked him to keep the cows out of the field when they have calves (which is the situation that led to the OP's mishap), he destroyed half the cows and sold the rest. That doesn't sound like an appropriate response. And I'd say you were overreacting a bit - you say it's "devastating". Is it really devastating when cows get destroyed? Thousands get "destroyed" every day for people to eat and I can't say I feel especially devastated about that. In addition, it's only a small herd of a breed that are more of a novelty than a money-making beef herd.
I've come across these cows plenty of times on my bike and they've never shown me any interest. My family are farmers, I've spent a lot of time around cows and I pedal through with caution. But just because I do that it doesn't mean they'll leave me alone, and after the attack where someone got airlifted the farmer probably should have looked into alternatives. The fact that there seem to have been multiple incidents involving this particular herd suggests that they weren't in the right place.
Oscillate Wildly, it is a grey area. Personally, I think that the Peak Park Authority is consistently negligent in informing people of the inherent risks of accessing working farmland. Their agenda is so pro-tourism that people are inadvertently treating it an urban park and expecting the same safeguards.
More signage might help, but as one member posted – if a farmer posts signs and somebody gets hurt then they are almost in admission of a problem and potentially liable.
Therefore, I think the onus is on the park authority to educate the people that they are so eagerly encouraging into the park. I also think that the authority should take some liability when there are incidents of this nature. Farmers don’t have much choice regarding rights of way, they are just trying to live with them and they gain nothing from that.
I agree totally, it is a grey area on all counts
as I said I think the main problem is unless you are a seasoned walker/rambler most other forms of walkers (just going out for a walk somewhere new/ with friends / family / meeting up) will not have the foggiest about this sort of thing - educating people is all very well but how do you get the message across to mr and mrs smith who walk their dogs there once a year?! signage is the only thing would help such people - and if it admits liability then, of course its a problem for the farmers
if its happened numerous times by the same herd, the logical thing to do is to remove them to a less busy area - but that's catch 22 as everyone wants to see them as they are an attraction for a lot of people (and they are absolutely stunning creatures), so im not sure there is really a answer to it sadly
Munrobiker - of course it's devastating when a herd that has been bred for 40 years has to be disposed of. Are you suggesting farmers don't care about their livestock?
You can shove as many statistics forward as you like but the Peak District has been created and shaped by agriculture (alongside quarrying/mining) and those landowners aren't going to give up their livelihoods/heritage to simply make way for more weekend heroes.
Additionally, although a bit of re-wilding may be no bad thing, it's landowners who are responsible for much of that practice to start with. And until the Peak Park or central govt start paying farmers to treat humans as the incumbents, this dilemma will continue to exist - and probably intensify as domestic agriculture becomes more of a recognised national resource post-brexit.
Personally - I think agriculture should be given greater safeguards in the Peak District, for all of people's demands on that environment - who actually wants to see it without its farm animals?
As for the farmer's responsibilities - he had no other suitable land for a highland herd and was for many years trying to keep HIS cattle on HIS land, which is where they have been for the past forty years. In the end - the choice was sadly taken from him.
The way that this pathetic blame game is going - people will be suing landowners over rabbit holes next or slippery, wet grass...
Are they that much of an attraction? I know I go up to Curbar Edge from Baslow because of this view, not because of the cows. There are lots of cows and sheep all over the Peak District, most of which are a there for a purpose. The farmer himself says that, with the highland cattle, "There was no real financial incentive to have them".
billybob- you replied just after I clicked post on this so I missed your post. Of course farmers care about their livestock, but you can't form too much of an emotional attachment. I can think of one single cow getting a name at my family's farm in thirty years. I don't think anyone is saying that farmers are liable for rabbit holes or anything like that, but in any other industry leaving a piece of equipment or property that had previously injured someone to injure someone again without taking steps to deal with it would be deemed negligent. If it's his cattle on his land, he needs to take responsibility.
If he has no other suitable land then he could rent some from another farmer while the cattle have calves. Renting fields ad-hoc from other farmers is pretty common if you don't have something suitable on your own land for part of the year.
I appreciate that the Peak looks as it does because of farming and agriculture, but in the same way that the mining is part of its past I think farming is starting to be part of its past too. While Britain is going to need more domestic agriculture after Brexit, intensificaiton isn't going to happen in the Peak District's relatively marginal farms, it's going to happen in the mega industrial farms of Lincolnshire, East Anglia and so on. I'd agree that the park authority needs to look into land management practices and funding.
I genuinely don't think the farm animals are why people come to the Peak District -they come for views (that will change as farming declines, but only becoming more dramatic I reckon provided things are managed correctly), the trails, the pubs, the villages.
theres plenty of photograhpers who enjoy them that's for sure - I guess as they are not very common at all around here that's partially why also.
they don't interest me in the slightest, im like you, all for the views but I think a lot of people do find them interesting and have become part of the scenery for a long time
Nothing to say other than well done to those posting for brining it back from the verge, back into a reasoned debate. It's all too tempting to pick a side and be a dick about it - see facebook and twitter for how this goes.
Good to see we're still above that here.
Good to see we’re still above that here.
****
😉
Never been to the Peak district, so apologies if different, but in Kent most row go straight through fields. In France, they will follow a fence so you are not in the middle of the animals.
Why is that? Why can't footpath go round fields?
Surely it would be better for the farmers.
Munrobiker - Rather sadly, I can't disagree entirely with your projection about the future of farming in the Peak District. The Peak Park Authority almost single-handedly pushed mining and quarrying into someone else's back yard, but purely from a heritage perspective, I'd hope that our unique hill farms are spared from that eventuality.
My main hope is that people can maintain perspective on the many aspects that make the place what it is and don't get too strung up about any one facet of it. In that way - a bit of consideration does a huge amount towards keeping routes open, preventing conflict and looking after the place.
but purely from a heritage perspective, I’d hope that our unique hill farms are spared from that eventuality.
Agreed. I fear that leaving the EU may mean that many of them disappear, unless the government introduces new subsidies to keep them going. And it'd be sad if they didn't.
I think an STW argument has almost reached a reasonable agreement. Is this a first?
Bringing it back to reality, those subsidies are going to have to be earned through public benefit, and a big obligation of landowners will be to improve access....
some mixed reporting in the press about what has happened to the cows. anyone know?
https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/farmer-forced-to-sell-highland-herd-after-complaint-to-hse
So that you can peddle across said Moor and try to impress your mates without any dirty cows to contend with? And this wider society – is that your MTB community that you are referring to? Because you don’t speak for the generations of people who live and have created/maintained this environment for hundreds of years. You probably think the Moors are entirely natural too don’t you? You may find that the openness you crave for your hobby becomes significantly more constrained in the future as landowners seem to take legitimate steps to protect their livelihoods following the Baslow edge debacle.
You’ve clearly avoided reading any of the posts which very clearly state that the op was walking with his family and their dog!
I can only assume that you’ve done so because it doesn’t fit your agenda which seems to be taking a poke at mountain bikers on a biking forum.
And don’t, for one second, have a go at me for being ignorant about country life; while I was born and brought up in a small market town in Wiltshire, my dad was born in a tiny village, where my family can trace its history back to the mid-1700’s, mostly as farm labourers, and he taught me to have the greatest respect for the country and those who live and work there, and I’m very, very aware of risks attendant on accessing a working environment when there are cattle around, especially with calves and dogs. There was a fatality not so long ago just on the edge of town involving a woman using a path across a field with her dog, and another very close call not far from that incident.
A local landowner in Castle Combe used to graze highland cattle along a footpath which ran up the side of the valley from CC to another village. They trashed the path, turning it into a swamp, and eventually they were removed, they were hopelessly out of place, the whole area has been traditionally sheep grazing for centuries, so cattle can be the wrong type in the wrong place, which the cattle in question might well be.