MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Me and the family came close to being skewered / trampled yesterday whilst out walking on the bridleway near Wellingtons monument near Baslow. At one stage I was pinned up against the stone wall by the woolly bully, before having to run in one direction with the dog, allowing the wife and kids to escape the other way. They were being proper protective of their calves, which were hidden in the long grass until it was too late. I'm a fairly laid back person, but felt the incident serious enough to fill in a form on the HSE website, making my self feel like a right townie. Not sure the cattle have the right temperment for being in a field with public access.
I know of at least one guy who got mauled several years ago whilst out runnning in the peak. He was in a very bad way. Think it might have even been over on the eastern edges: might even have been Baslow.
I would of thought it more useful to contact the farmer and/or the national park wardens though.
"...before having to run in one direction with the dog"
There's your problem right there. Always release your dog if cornered by cattle. Its the dog they're bothered about, not you.
Ah yes, I've encountered those scary cows. I guess the combination of calves and a dog don't mix. A warning sign might help, I suppose, although you obviously have every right to be there.
Devash - I did in the end, but she's 14 and can't really run. - It got to the point where she was a worthy sacrifice though !
before having to run in one direction with the dog
As above. Let the dog go. It can outrun cattle, you can't. EDIT: Maybe... 🙂 I'd imagine having a load of heifers up your tail can reinvigorate even an elderly dog!
Was there a bull in with them? I believe there are restrictions on bulls of certain cattle breeds being in fields with ROWs. Mainly dairy breeds - Holstein etc.
They can be very intimidating. I had to thrash **** out of a few with a big stick last summer to get them to back off. But as above same scenario as we had the dog with us. They are the issue but my dogs a **** and would just run off and I'd never see him again so it's not really an option for us.
Is this the perp?
Generally it's only bulls of recognised beef breeds that are allowed outside, even then they have to be with a certain number of cows.
Given that the cows had calves and you had a dog with you that's more likely a reason for their interest/aggression.
A few years ago when out running I was floored by a cow, luckily for me once she'd got me on the ground she lost interest. I had a chat with the farmer, he'd actually no fields he could put his cattle in to that hadn't got a ROW through it. He also noted that putting a sign up is itself fraught with difficulties: any wording that implies a known risk can't be used, hence the anodyne "Bull in field" type notices.
Yes you've a "right" to walk in the countryside with your dog but that needs to be tempered with some common sense even if it means altering your plans.
Cycle up there semi regularly and never had a problem. Have randomly talked to/at them when they had calves so they knew I was there. It's a fairly well trafficked area with walkers, runners, cyclists and horse riders so the cattle should be used to people. Unless they've had some new one's in who are learning the ropes.
That's her Martin, except, the horns looked bigger close up !
You were probably best trying to find an alternative route before entering a field with calves especially if you had a dog with you.
Thanks Glenn. - If only the calves had been visible and / or there was a warning sign.
Thanks Glenn. – If only the calves had been visible and / or there was a warning sign.
I wasn't trying to be a smart arse, just offering a bit of friendly advice.
A couple were trampled at the weekend near Milngavie, to the North of Glasgow. Tbh I don't go in a field with cows, particularly at this time of year, if I can help it. And that's without having a dog.
Don't complain about it, unless the cattle were somewhere they shouldn't have been.
No worries Glenn.
Not sure it's complaining Nobeer. - I just wouldn't like anyone to get hurt up there.
Cycle up there semi regularly and never had a problem. Have randomly talked to/at them when they had calves so they knew I was there. It’s a fairly well trafficked area with walkers, runners, cyclists and horse riders so the cattle should be used to people. Unless they’ve had some new one’s in who are learning the ropes.
Me too.
I guess animals are just unpredictable.
I appreciate you're not complaining as such, but taking a dog into a field of recently calved cattle is leaving oneself open a bit, it's pretty much common sense, You can't put signs up about everything.
Sometimes the public have to take a bit of personal responsibility, and I'm no fan of farmers in general btw.
To be fair to the OP he couldn't see the calfs as they were hiding in the long grass. Pluss it's a big open area roughly the shape of a triangle so you can easily enter in one corner and not know the cows are there until a copule of miles later. And if ou can't see the calfs then you'd reasonably carry on.
Cows can be interesting. On a night ride in the Peaks a few years back I started riding though this boggy field, in the middle of summer, and noticed there were loads of cows in it. Decided that discretion was the better part of valour did a u-turn and took a five mile road diversion instead.
I'm not criticising the OP at all, as I'm well aware he couldn't see the calves. All I'm saying is that there is no point at all contacting the farmer as he'd quite rightly tell you to do one. Taking a dog into a field of one tonne nutters is a risk at any time, never mind spring time.
YMMV.
In the USA cows kill more people than sharks but that odd static aside having grown up and visited cousins farms I’d be very cautious entering any field where there are calves and certainly not with a dog.
In the USA cows kill more people than sharks
Tubbies choking to death on chunks of steak doesn't count.
I startled a calf once on the bike, his mum was none too impressed and came "barrelling" down the trail after me, I discovered a sprint I never knew I had that day 🙂
Had similar issue in Scotland couple of summers ago. Was with then 9 yr old son and dog. Entered field with Friesians in. Couple started taking a proper interest. Let dog go and told son not to run. We started walking for gate, they started to canter, we gently jogged. When we were within 20 yards of the gate I told him to sprint like hell! Was properly scary, particularly because I had the boy with me. Strange thing is I grew up in the country and used to being around cows (Phnaar, phnaar), but there was something menacing about this.
On way back decided to skirt field. 3-4 cows followed us on the other side of the wall. As we came to the end, I realised that the wall stopped and the cows could just come round the end and meet us. I had run like buggery, thrown the boy over the electric fence at the end and failed spectacularly to vault it cleanly (the electric shock isn't that bad, unless you p1$$ on it which is another story) before I realised that a similar fence blocked the end of the cow's field where the wall stopped and we were safe.
Moral of the story, approach with caution and probably not with a dog at all..
..and regardless of how much you've had to drink - and how much your so-called mates are egging you on - never, never answer a call of nature on an electric fence..
Given that the cows had calves and you had a dog with you that’s more likely a reason for their interest/aggression.
This +1
Plus..
A lot of Cattle have been kept indoors over the winter, it’s only now that they’re being let out for the summer. It’s been a wet and cold winter, mainly wet and the ground has been too sodden to let them out.
They’re in protective mode for at least another 5-6 weeks until they settle and the calves are grazing on their own.
Honeslty can’t see why you’d be a “form filler” what’s the point?
Simple answer is “Don’t go in a field with cows in it”
Also, it’s only some breeds of Bull that the farmer is required (by law) to post on entry to his field “beware of bulls”
If in doubt, stay out.
To be fair to the OP, the site in question is on miles of open moorland. You could easily walk/ride a couple of miles before encountering the cattle.
The cattle could hang out anywhere, but I think they like to loiter by the bottlenecks on trails and intimidate people 😉
Jesus, 26 posts and no one has yet pointed out the obvious mistake the OP made:
It's "My family and I came close to being trampled"
I've had a couple of close encownters over the years. The worst was a couple of years ago just outside Cilcain in North Wales. I'd just entered the field when the whole herd of about 12 to 15 came barrelling over to me and trapped me against the fence. I'd turn and yell at them and they would back away but soon as I turned to go back towards the exit they came at me again. I proper shit meself and I've been very wary of cows ever since.
I went to Holmfirth on Saturday and got halfway across a big field before I noticed there were cows with calves at the far end. One cow and it's calf were right next to the bridleway and I got to within about 10 feet of them before the calf spotted me and legged it up the hill at a high rate of knots. This spooked it's mum and for a second I thought it was going to charge me. I ended up saying "good girl, good girl" to it in my calmest voice which did seem to calm it down a bit. I mustn't have been thinking straight because apparently the best thing to shout is "get awa' tha' filthy bugger". Which I learned from this very forum.
Some of you lot sound like you'd be better off not going out in the countryside!!
You don't have to be in a field to killed by cattle especially at this time of year. I worked with this poor woman's husband.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36079825
I got charged at one night at Christmas. I was out shooting and walking through a field. Recon I spooked them but a really frightening experience as it was pitch black. Thankfully they backed off when I poked one in the eye with a strobing flashlight.
You have to laugh at the irony of the fact that cows go for the dog when the thing that actually eats them is holding the lead.
Apparently following a complaint to HSE the herd have been removed - according to one report they have now been sold. For anyone who might be interested to see their return (if that is at all feasible now), there is a petition here:
https://www.change.org/p/national-trust-the-return-of-highland-cattle-on-baslow-edge?
Hope it goes well, mate. Would be nice to see them back again.
Hope the OP is happy now that cattle have been moved. Effin townie.
Are we blaming Marcus for their demise then?
Yep, the photographers aren't happy:
Are we blaming Marcus for their demise then?
Please, lets not. OP made a complaint about a potential risk and the result was a little extreme, it seems.
Please, lets not
Go on, let's, it'll be fun.
(He's far from a townie, fwiw)
Cycled up there last week and didn't notice any cows. I know there were also cows at Curbar edge and along to Froggatt edge. Does anyone know if these were the same cows or a separate herd?
It'll be the deer next!
It's such a popular FP that the risk of people wandering through with dogs is high. Public knowledge of the risk to dog owners from cattle is pretty patchy, and unlikely to improve despite publicity campaigns.
I'm sure that if the HSE had found the risk was low, and the farmer had taken the proper steps to mitigate it then he would have been allowed to continue grazing them there.
If there have been multiple incidents then it's clear that this particular herd is too aggressive for that path, or it is unsuitable grazing for cattle.
The HSE made a suggestion that the herd should be relocated after a single complaint. Unfortunately this seems to be a standard response whilst any investigation is planned (or not, as no assessment has yet been undertaken at the site).
There is no suggestion that there have been any other complaints, nor that the herd was acting unusually or aggressively.
Its the dog they’re bothered about, not you.
this simply isn't true, they can take umbridge to you if they have calves, I was chased by a friesian cow once, no dog and no particular reason as far as I could tell. Bloody quick she was and I had to scramble over a fence.
Townie or not,I think some people are just a bit crap at assessing risk.
I was chased by a friesian cow once
that's because friesians are unstable psychopaths. The OP wouldn't have been gently pinned against a wall by them.
Apparently what you're meant to do is stop walking, they'll lose interest and then you can start walking again. You may need to repeat this stop / start process a couple of times. Shouting at them and waving arms about shouldn't be done, although I've heard people say that that's what you should do. Worst thing to do is speed up / run. Essentially they're bored and see you as something interesting fun, so if you stop they lose interest.
However cows with calves are always a bit concerning, apparently you should never get between a calf and its mother (may be difficult).
As for he dog, it should be let off lead if they start showing interest.
"It’s also an offence for dogs to attack or chase livestock and farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that are worrying, or are about to worry, farm animals. This is set out in section 9 of the Animals Act 1971, which also states that the farmer isn’t liable to compensate the dog’s owner in such circumstances. "
hmmm, I know a butchers round that way. wonder if there'll be some cut-price Highland steaks on offer soon.
OP has been named and this thread has been cited in a Facebook post by someone claiming that MTBers ride past him at 40mph
A local ride for me. The cattle have been a feature for years. They've always been intimidating, with those horns, but I've never actually had an issue - actually rather placid. Wouldn't want to piss one off mind...
It always struck me as a bit strange that the farmer chose a field traversed by one of the busiest paths in the area to regularly graze such potentially dangerous animals (note emphasis on "potentially"). One of those situations, where he should be able to keep his animals where he likes, but common sense would suggest he doesn't do it just there. I slightly wonder if he had a point to make.
The HSE made a suggestion that the herd should be relocated after a single complaint. Unfortunately this seems to be a standard response whilst any investigation is planned (or not, as no assessment has yet been undertaken at the site).
There is no suggestion that there have been any other complaints, nor that the herd was acting unusually or aggressively.
Sorry, was just going from the direct quote from the farmer which said he had been ordered, and that there had been a series of incidents. Whether or not there was more than one complaint, it doesn't say.
“It’s also an offence for dogs to attack or chase livestock and farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that are worrying, or are about to worry, farm animals. This is set out in section 9 of the Animals Act 1971, which also states that the farmer isn’t liable to compensate the dog’s owner in such circumstances. “
I don't think it's right to conflate that with the issue of a well-controlled dog on a PROW, which doesn't fall into the category covered by the Act above.
a bit strange that the farmer chose a field traversed by one of the busiest paths in the area
It is not uncommon for all of a farmers grazing fields to include public RoW's, which is why there is often conflict when asked to relocate.
Maybe that is the only suitable field for its occupants and if ordered by the HSE to remove the herd, would have to let them go as no alternative could be found?
going from the direct quote from the farmer
There seems to be a lot of unfounded comments, speculation and exaggeration from all sides in this.
There are several reasons why a farmer will choose to put stock in a given field. Animals get moved from field to field once they've eaten all the grass or they've dropped enough muck. They might be moved to allow grass to grow in hay meadows. They might be moved when splitting calves from their mothers - usually out of earshot of one another. The field might be more weather proof. etc., etc.
Never had a problem with them in the Peak but only been past them on the bike or when we have been walking. Not had the dog with us though.
Bit of a shame that they have had to be moved on.
Just legged it when the ones in Verbier get too close and sometimes had to sacrifice the girls.
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Interview with the farmer at 1hr 46min. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0706wxs?fbclid=IwAR2Wy_hqvAIleZ7sm6UijI96rTdSlBwgYR8_F8gc85rFi3cwab8eec9sn-E
He was told to move the herd off the back of this one complaint. Nowhere else suitable on his property as they graze best on upland areas rather than pastures. Other herds in other fields.
His only alternative was to sell the herd. No-one wants to buy adults unless they're in calf, so most of them were destroyed.
Gutting that it's taken this turn off the back of a complaint that should been rejected by the HSE, or at least with proper consultation with the farmer. No-one was injured so quite why he should be forced to move the animals is beyond me.
HSE: "The matter has been satisfactorily resolved" - satisfactory to who? The farmer? The OP? I very much doubt either party would be happy with this outcome.
His only alternative was to sell the herd. No-one wants to buy adults unless they’re in calf, so most of them were destroyed.
Well done to the complainer,hope they now feel suitably shit about the whole episode.
Not knowing the layout of said field, could he not have segregated the cows from the path with an electric fence?
He admitted the cows "had a go" at the dog, which was on a lead, but said no-one was injured.
Mr Birch admitted there had occasionally been problems before but they had always been dealt with privately.
so not really an isolated incident then.
Not knowing the layout of said field, could he not have segregated the cows from the path with an electric fence?
Nah, the result would have been shocking
Well done to the complainer,hope they now feel suitably shit about the whole episode.
Right, I'll probably unadvisedly wade in in his defence.
I know the OP/complainer, and have done for over 30 years. He's not a townie, he's lived in and around the countryside his entire life and most, if not all, of his leisure pursuits revolve around the 'great outdoors'; walking, running, biking, climbing, camping etc etc. He's also not an idle moaner and, knowing him as well as I do, the incident would have had to have been particularly significant to prompt him to contact HSE.
His dog was under control, on a lead. The calves were not visible from the path, there were no signs to say there were calves in the field, so he had no way of knowing that they were there. The request from the HSE was that cows should not be kept in that area with calves, not that they be removed altogether.
And, yes, I bet he does feel a bit shit about the outcome, but was justified in his actions.
There seems to be a lot of unfounded comments, speculation and exaggeration from all sides in this.
Indeed.
OP has been named and this thread has been cited in a Facebook post by someone claiming that MTBers ride past him at 40mph
It was only a matter of time - NIMBYs with an axe to grind will always find a way.
The same ones who complain that 'kids played outside when I were a lad, none of this Playstation nonsense'.......then put up 'No Ball Games' signs anywhere within half of mile of their house and ring the police every time a child shouts within earshot.
someone claiming that MTBers ride past him at 40mph
To be fair, that could be the OP 🙂
Not knowing the layout of said field, could he not have segregated the cows from the path with an electric fence?
Would be a long section of new fencing, plus you'd lose all the grazing between the BW and Baslow Edge. Can't see it making economic sense, and would probably get more complaints from people moaning about fencing off a large tract of attractive heather moor.
Not sure what 'dealt with privately' means in the above quote, given that the farmer had no means to sort the problem other than the one he's just taken.
Thanks for the personal character reference IHN, but regardless of how outdoorsy the OP is or is not , he failed to assess the potential risk .He then wandered in to a serious situation with his family and an old dog . It doesn’t matter if the calves could be seen or not, if you are approaching a large group of livestock you need to be thinking about what could happen and plan your route through accordingly. If that means going around a different field or even turning back completely then so be it.
.
he failed to assess the potential risk .He then wandered in to a serious situation with his family and an old dog .
Unless you are
a) the OP
b) his wife
c) one of his daughters
d) a now homeless Highland cow
you weren't there and you don't actually know what happened.
I've been watching this thread for a couple of days to see how it develops.
I can assure people that I will never be 'happy' when healthy animals are destroyed, but the decision for that to be done was well out of my control. However, with the farmer admitting that there had been problems before, (which presumably had gone unaddressed) and the HSE concluding the animals (with calves) posed an unacceptable risk to the public my decision to report the incident is validated.
For those of you that think I acted inappropriately, I suggest you consider how you would feel had you not reported the incident but then heard that someone had been subsequently killed or badly injured. - That is not a situation I want on my conscience.
Fasthaggis - You are clearly being confrontational. However, I am happy to admit that with the benefit of hindsight I made the wrong call on the day to enter the field with a dog. Regardless of my decision, with a busy footpath running through the field there was a real and likely possibility that same 'wrong call' would be made by numerous other people who may not be as lucky as me and the family. - See paragraph above.
Sadly wrong cattle in the wrong place, a herd of Longhorn and they wouldn’t have bothered you.
Say hello to all the non-STWers who are reading this thread on the witch-hunt. Hello everyone.
Hello!
Had a lively debate at work with a colleague at work who was up in arms after reading the BBC report.
Seems to me that there must be dozens of occasions every year where walkers have worrying and potentially dangerous interactions with cattle and other livestock here in the East Midlands, let alone the ones you read about where people are injured or killed. This is only the second time in 20 years living up here that I can recall a report of a farmer taking/having to take this kind action.
On that basis, I suggested that there is probably a lot more to this story than the BBC report suggests for this action to have been taken.
Unusually, my colleague thought that reasoned argument might be right.
Where would the nearest available alternative RoW be? Obviously in Scotland you could double back to the field entrance, and just loop around it -- in this scenario, an alternative might be a long way away and impractical.
As the witch hunt continues on numerous Facebook pages, this appears to feature the same cattle in the same location
I’ve tried to inform the braying mob on a couple of fb pages, sadly it’s like peeing into the wind
It certainly is
Trying to justify the unjustifiable often is like pissing in the wind. I’m guessing.
Hi tr
Sounds like the OP was correct to report this incident - it sounds as though this wasn't an isolated incident. Ultimately the HSE and the farmer decided the outcome.
The farmer has a responsibility to ensure that the public RoW across the land is safe to use - this clearly wasn't the case.