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I don't think anybody had actually mentioned the physical appearance of a tracking well being the problem. I believe there are 1 or 2 industrial structures that have already been built in the north of England, that maybe aren't the most aesthetically pleasing
The US has no ability to export gas (liquefied) probably the main reason it is so cheap there. At the same time all new wells have been cancelled because of the glut. If the same continues in the rest of the world they will be give it away.
I remember during one recession North Sea oil fell to 10 dollars a barrel From a 100 a barrel. OK it was a recession but the same rule of supply and demand applies. Also gas will be cheaper in the UK due to reduced transport costs.
A mini electricity generator has been created so that a home can produce its own electricity from gas but it is integrated into the heating system. The excess is put into the local grid. The basis of the idea is it is more efficient to transport gas than electricity (Huge amounts of electricity are losses in transmission) I interesting idea?
Thank god we've got fiercely competitive energy firms renowned for instantly passing on any reduction in the price of fuel directly onto consumers eh? And ploughing any profits straight back into infrastructure investment.
God bless capitalism!
.I don't think anybody had actually mentioned the physical appearance of a tracking well being the problem. I believe there are 1 or 2 industrial structures that have already been built in the north of England, that maybe aren't the most aesthetically pleasing
I got the impression they were going in rural areas like Bowland. So not a lot of Industrial structures in rural areas 😯
@thisisnotaspoon, I fully respect your commitment to your industry, it appears you are informed by and surrounded by the safety and regulations that have been your life for how-ever long, however the track record of fracking in the uk in its sort history is far from looking great. actual cracks in houses in blackpool resulting in house prices in free fall... "at priest hall 60 seismic events from just 6 fracking treatments" quote from Dash for Gas (see my link above) . Caudrilla failing to report faulty casing for six months, and is it not true that faulty casings cause most well problems. Your total believe in the safety of the industry is heartwarming and your commitment to this thread is profound how ever what do they do with the waste water they claim is safe, they spray it on the roads, or leave it to evaporate leaving toxic pools. In the US where the ground water has become unusable the companies bring water for the locals and if they speak out they are threatened with water being stopped. the list of issues goes on and on and thinking its the UK we do it better, I'm not so sure i have your faith, after all if that 1 well in 200 is near your water supply or near your cracked house how would that make you feel?
I got the impression they were going in rural areas like Bowland. So not a lot of Industrial structures in rural areas
Have you ever been to the rural idyl of Salford?
. As they buy there energy in advance then it is unlikely that would happen. The infrastructure has nothing to do with the energy firms it is the grid that supposed to invest in infrastructure..binners - Member
Thank god we've got fiercely competitive energy firms renowned for instantly passing on any reduction in the price of fuel directly onto consumers eh? And ploughing any profits back straight into infrastructure?God bless capitalism!
god bless capitalism
now you do have point here, under the Soviet union etc everyone was equally....worse off. Makes you wish you could have those days back........ohhh I just remembered North Korea there will be no problem getting in....although if you change your mind, getting out might not be so easy. 😀
ninfan you really need to go and do some reading and learning from non-biased sources.
internationally endangered SSSI moorland
SSSI isn't an international designation.
So the pro-fracking argument seems to include the point that "well, even if fracking in the US was an absolute environmental clusterfuzzle, we in the UK will do it properly".Are there any examples anywhere of fracking being actually done in the way the pro-frackers say that it ought to be done in the UK? Or is that a unicorn that still has to be ring fenced?
I don't know too much about the little that has gone on so far here, but things will be very different here, eg they'll have to declare the chemicals they inject into the ground and there will be a much smaller range they can choose from. They'll also have to treat the wastewater in line with our legislation which they didn't have to do in the states, where it has been dumped and even poured out along public roads to dispose of it.
Going to be interesting how they manage that in the UK. Also the lorry traffic is going to be a major issue in the UK, many of the locations will be down small country roads not designed for thousands of HGV trips. Site remediation will be a bigger issue here too. it will be quite different from the US but I still wouldn't want to be anywhere near where it is going on.
It's most likely to be something I'll end up working in unless I change career, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad ting yet...
alexrankin - Member
@thisisnotaspoon, I fully respect your commitment to your industry, it appears you are informed by and surrounded by the safety and regulations that have been your life for how-ever long, however the track record of fracking in the uk in its sort history is far from looking great. actual cracks in houses in blackpool resulting in house prices in free fall... "at priest hall 60 seismic events from just 6 fracking treatments" quote from Dash for Gas (see my link above) . Caudrilla failing to report faulty casing for six months, and is it not true that faulty casings cause most well problems. Your total believe in the safety of the industry is heartwarming and your commitment to this thread is profound how ever what do they do with the waste water they claim is safe, they spray it on the roads, or leave it to evaporate leaving toxic pools. In the US where the ground water has become unusable the companies bring water for the locals and if they speak out they are threatened with water being stopped. the list of issues goes on and on and thinking its the UK we do it better, I'm not so sure i have your faith, after all if that 1 well in 200 is near your water supply or near your cracked house how would that make you feel?
First off, are you THE Alex Rankin? If so can you explain what the Law of Fives is/was? I'd clearly not taken enough drugs to understand it.
Evaporation ponds are a common way of treating water, let the bulk of the water evaporate (obviously this only works for water not comtaminated by light HC's), dig up the sludge and send it to an incinerator. You may also be confusing waste water treatment with cooling water ponds (a cheep alternative to towers if lands available, just let the hot water cool in a big pond) or brine storage, both of which will have big "toxic - no swimming" signs, but aren't glowing in the dark or full of cyanide or benzene.
Can you give me an example of it being sprayed on the roads, I've never heard of that? And in general if "they claim it's safe", it probably is, no one wakes up in the morning and thinks "I'm going to kill someone today, unless they're a psycopath, and they tend not to be drawn into engineering.
In the US there's less mains water, think of the arechetypal mid-west(where the shale is)ranch, house, midle of nowhere, with a water pump spinning away in the back garden. Which obviously gives rise to a risk of contamination of their water supply. And that's a risk, not an absolute. If for example shale gas was found under Berkshire/Hampshire/Surrey then you're not looking at one water supply, you're talking about aquifers that supply London, Southamptn, and a few other million people in the South East. It's beyond the limits of credibility to assume they'll allow that to become contaminated.
unless they're a psycopath, and they tend not to be drawn into engineering
they do have an alarming predisposition to becoming company directors or politicians though 😉
jonah tonto - Member
unless they're a psycopath, and they tend not to be drawn into engineering
they do have an alarming predisposition to becoming company directors or politicians though
Who you calling a politician?
Yeah @thisisnotaspoon, for the Law of Fives, google it for more info, no Drug needed fella, Chaos Theory is more and more relevant and it five years since that film, btw!
Fracking waste on roads
http://www.care2.com/causes/new-york-roads-are-covered-in-snow-and-fracking-waste.html
and http://scalinggreen.com/2013/12/toxic-coal-ash-and-fracking-wastewater-used-to-de-ice-roads/
AND http://protectingourwaters.wordpress.com/2011/07/28/lets-dump-it-on-the-roads/
No, its much better - lots of little wooded areas
Smashing answer, Ratty... but I meant 'expansive' as in '[i]lots[/i] of space' - and how proximity issues might differ this side of the pond. Moreover, there is evident unease at both County & District Council level right across this country - and they have every right to object... whatever our grasping incumbent politicos and the likes of Lord Browne would prefer. If the more slavish proponents of fracking were to argue just as vigourously for energy control measures, I'd be more inclined to take them seriously (even if I don't ultimately agree). But they don't - and in that respect, I don't much care to be lectured in the national media on why fracking is for my good, this country's good, the greater good... Screw 'em.
. The infrastructure has nothing to do with the energy firms it is the grid that supposed to invest in infrastructure.
Can't be arsed to read everything, but unless i am massively misreading this, this is ****
Who supplies the power to the energy billing companies?
It wouldn't happen to be EDF or EON, RWE etc!!!
So the companies that own and run the power stations are the same that bill the consumers.
under the Soviet union etc everyone was equally....worse off.
Wrong.
. Not the best of counter arguments. I should of course Have said I was quoting Churchill. I will rephrase it:- The vast majority were worse of. Obviously I should not have included Uncle Joe Stalin 😈.konabunny - Member
under the Soviet union etc everyone was equally....worse off.Wrong.
. Sorry but my definition of the infrastructure is the grid the cables etc. The people who keep giving me £54 compensation for 18+ hours of outage..mrmo - Member
. The infrastructure has nothing to do with the energy firms it is the grid that supposed to invest in infrastructure.
Can't be arsed to read everything, but unless i am massively misreading this, this is ****Who supplies the power to the energy billing companies?
It wouldn't happen to be EDF or EON, RWE etc!!!
So the companies that own and run the power stations are the same that bill the consumers.
If you are talking about the infrastructure being the power supply itself then i suggest you blame past and present governments for that. They are the ones who give the planning permission etc.
Moreover there are 34 companies billing consumers not 3. And they are separate entities to the power suppliers.
The willingness of Of the French to bankroll fracking in this country whilst it is constitutionally banned in their own speaks volumes!!!!!
May be of interest
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2014/jan/13/fracking-bribes-high-energy-prices
That government are a right bunch of cheeky kittens... wonder what the compensation scheme will be like when [url= http://rt.com/news/fracking-property-laws-change-254/ ]peoples homes start falling into sink holes[/url]
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jan/21/fracking-activism-protest-terrorist-oil-corporate-spies ]Probably be locked up for sullying the name of the energy companies[/url]
Only just caught up on this thread. First observation:
2) the gulf marine life is now thriving as the bacteria at the bototm of the food chain that eat the oil have attracted everything else to the area.
As a marine biologist I can tell you that is b0!!%.
A specific type of bacteria will thrive in such conditions. Partly because the hydrocarbons provide the specific conditions they need to live and party because competing bacteria have died. Many of the toxins in the oil bioaccumulate. That means they stay in the body of the organism that ate them. The further up the food chain the more of a problem it becomes. NOAA have linked dolphin deaths in the GOM to the oil spill. When the fluffy mega fauna starts dying then you know you have a problem in the whole ecosystem.
OK now off to learn about fracking (don't think they are doing it offshore yet).
jivehoneyjive - Member
That government are a right bunch of cheeky kittens... wonder what the compensation scheme will be like when peoples homes start falling into sink holes
It probably won't exist because the type of gas extraction that would take place in the UK wouldn't create sinkholes?
Such media descriptions often omit the use of underground explosions to create increased rock splitting and pressure to facilitate the migration of the fuel. Shaped explosive charges are used, made of depleted uranium.
Wow, some interesting comments on that website you've linked to, first I've heard of high velocity armour piercing underground explosives!
Haven't read a lot in the middle but in answer to the OP, I'm not that comfortable with it, personally I'd rather they spent money on developing Thorium powered nuclear reactors, I hate it that it's the French benefiting, I hate it that we no longer have the CEGB and I'd love to be able to vote for a political party that supported re nationalisation of Utilities, Power, Water and Communication.
this is quite something
Yep, the state of the nation... imagine how they'll uphold the law when they have water cannons.
Ohhh dear. Does that guy not understand what a video camera is? Why is he detained? "Because he's been quite vociferous"
That government are a right bunch of cheeky kittens... wonder what the compensation scheme will be like when peoples homes start falling into sink holes
Typical jivebunnyjive bullshit and obfuscation. I can watch telly too, and I was particularly interested in the Horizon programme on sinkholes. Nowhere was fracking involved in sinkholes, for a start the shale involved is a mile or two below the surface, not fifty or sixty meters.
The sinkhole that the young lady's car fell into the other day was due to clay/chalk mining pits being filled with earth, then heavy rainfall leaching underneath causing the earth to be washed away, causing the Tarmac drive to drop in. The house was built on a concrete 'raft' for exactly that reason.
The Florida sinkholes are caused by rain becoming acidic through filtering through plant debris, and dissolving the predominantly limestone subsurface, forming enormous cave networks full of water, because Florida is very, very wet; it's why it full of mangrove swamps and alligators. This has taken many thousands of years.
Eventually, a cave collapses, which would be perfectly fine, if it wasn't for the inconvenient fact that people build large housing estates, etc, right where the sinkholes occur. The same with old mine workings.
Still, jivebunnyjive never lets the facts get in the way of a nice, juicy conspiracy theory he can have a rant about.
Muppet. 🙄
While not an expert, I do have a pretty good grasp of how cave systems form; there are many of them not far from me, and lots of those are man made.
Some have houses built on top, the stone 'roof' in places had houses built on in Bath. It was discovered that some of those houses had two meters of stone between them and the void underneath, there was even a garage workshop above one where people could be heard talking from below!
I'm sure jivebunnyjive can find a suitable conspiracy to use in that instance as well.
No conspiracy, just human incompetence and stupidity, building habitations where they have no right to be.
Shaped explosive charges are used, made of depleted uranium.
Bullshit. Depleted Uranium is used to make the bullets used in armour-piercing shells, the explosive charge is what propels the bullet. Any ful kno this. A shaped charge is packed into a container designed to force the explosion in a particular direction, like a claymore. Nowhere would depleted uranium be used, it's just not necessary.
Thorium molten salt reactor, ready to go, apparently: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/150551-the-500mw-molten-salt-nuclear-reactor-safe-half-the-price-of-light-water-and-shipped-to-order
CountZero in 3 consecutive post uber rant shocker!!
The sinkhole in Louisiana, referenced in the video, is in fact the result of injection mining, which although not fracking, uses similar techniques.
Admittedly, the real cause of the Bayou Corne sinkhole is the salt caverns:
Evidence from drilling suggested that the sinkhole was caused by collapse of a side wall in a cavern in the Napoleonville Salt Dome.
This type of collapse from the side is "something regulators and briners had previously considered impossible—highlighting, once again, how poorly understood the geology of salt caverns truly is,"
Now, pardon my enquiring mind, but is it not then safe to assume that there may be other areas of the subterranean landscape that supposedly qualified parties do not hold full understanding of?
The DU comment is absolute horseflops, so it's right to doubt any source that reports it as truth tbh
Could someone highlight the source of this depleted uranium chat for me please, I don't recall it's origin... from what I've read above, it seems to be from an independent comment rather than a verified article?