MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Nope, soz lads.. not fixe'd.
Nope, soz lads.. not fixe’d.
Maybe, maybe not. Let's see what the above looks like.
Hmm.. like nah. Thats not fixed.
MacAir/Safari..
Hmmm! I’ll test on my iPad later.
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Hmm.. like nah. Thats not fixed.
MacAir/Safari..
Hmmm! I’ll test on my iPad later.
Testing on iMac / Safari.
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EDIT: That all looked OK in Preview.* Copy/Paste/Highlight/Remove formatting/1x quote button.
* Yes, I'm one of the "lucky" ones that has a Preview button.
Can you try copying just the text itself rather than the author too, cheers.
Can you try copying just the text itself rather than the author too, cheers.
Testing, testing 1.2.3.........
Do we have ignition?
Are we set for Blast Off??
Cheers Bikebouy.
It would seem by copying the username it is grabbing the html from the link confusing the system some what.
So the thread that I mentioned my woes on has been closed. I would use the quote button here to quote it but.........
"Using chrome on Android and Windows 7 I have no edit tools.
I’m trying hard not to be sulky about the changes. I’ve been a subscriber since the magazine started. The last issue was great. But i do feel like I pay for this forum. If you’re not logged in then the adverts are tough here. If your paying for something it’s hard not to think that it should work
It’s an intresting comparison to ukclimbing. I don’t visit that often but they were looking at a forum update. They had a test site up for ages. The adverts don’t get in the way and it’s free. I don’t know if the adverts pay for the content or if Rockfax subsidise it as an advert and data collection site for the publishing business.
So why didn’t they run the updates on a test site before launching the updates here"
I'm quite annoyed at that thread being closed
Hi all.
Our plan and how it has turned out has well, gone as expected.
I tried to explain at the start of this thread what our approach was and why. Clearly that's been lost or I just didn't make it clear enough.
It's not a lack of experience that has taken us down this route but the opposite. I totally get that this is an unusual way to make a change to a website but I've tried many times to explain that this is NOT just a website. It is intricately tied in to a multitude of systems that have been added in the past from BACS Direct debit integrations to a bespoke and locally hosted subscriber database. There are other payments systems and APIs linking the site to a multitude of third party systems. I'm not going to detail everything but to summarise there is a spaghetti mess of things running in the background that have developed and evolved over the last decade. All of it is badly implemented and has been the principal reason why the old forum software, which was 8 years out of date and forked off into all manner of directions by our previous devs to solve issues that at the time didn't exist as products we could just plugin.
The old forum had basically ground our future development to a halt and handcuffed us. It had to go. But the 9 million posts within had to stay. 75% of our site traffic comes from search and if we deleted the forum and started again we'd knobble ourselves search wise by breaking links to millions of posts. Google would not be happy. We could export and import all the post into a new forum but again we'd knobble all our millions of links. So we decided to stick with the BBpress platform but update it. All the 9 million posts are still there and all links are intact. Job 1 done.
Job 2 as about to happen. When that is launched we will be in a position to tackle the bugs that Job 1 introduced. THIS IS NOT THE RELAUNCHED FORUM. It is what had to happen in order that we could do what we are going to do next.
Why does it look like we are developing on a live system? Well, we have a testbed server with a replica of the live site and we use that extensively. We have a sandbox server too and we use that lots too. But with all the BACS, Custom payment systems and such that are intrinsically interwoven we had a choice to make.
We could set up our testbed server and install all our financial systems including all our subscribers accounts onto it and submit it for BACS approval and some cost in order that we could test the forum and site extensively before simply switch the old one off and activating the new one or we could do what we've done and safely install the new forum core functions knowing there would be quite a few cosmetic issues that would frustrate many of you that we would then fix.
In short we were facing a lot of downtime of the site and the subsequent financial losses (that go much further and deeper than just ads) or we do 90% of the hard work with 10% of the errors to fix with just a few hours downtime. The latter is the path we took. If we had more resources, both staff wise and financially we would have taken the site down for a few weeks and come back with a shiny new site. We also didn't think that you lot would have liked that option either.
All that aside I've explained the situation to a lot of people face to face as an analogy..
STW is a really popular nightclub that is open 24/7 and is always throbbing with people. But the building is crumbling and the floors are rotten. What we really need to do is get everyone out, shut the doors and put up a sign saying 'back in a few weeks once we've rebuilt the place'. The problem is we don;t have the resources to keep the business running while we've essentially shut down. So we are rebuilding the club while everyone is in it. And you lot are getting covered in plaster dust right now and I'm sorry about that.
Now, nothing I just said is going to change any minds of those who already know better that we do despite not being able to see anything of what we are actually dealing with. You can inspect the page code all you like but that's still just the tip of an iceberg. So, to anyone who is technically minded enough to still think we are doing this all wrong I welcome you to our office to see what we are actually doing. This is a genuine invitation and if you took it up we'd welcome the chance to explain and show you in person what it is we are doing. All I ask is that you email me first and let me schedule an appointment - we have a great deal on across the whole business right now from events and shows to shooting, videoing and writing content. But I promise I'll do what I can to accommodate you if you want to come and see us and what we are working with and trying to do. And if, at the end of your visit you don't think, 'wow, that's a lot more complicated than I imagined' then, well.. I dunno. I'm sure you'll be back on here to explain how incompetent we are. But I'm prepared to take that risk. Because I'm pretty confident that we aren't.
The one thing we are guilty of is getting ourselves in this mess in the first place. We developed on the fly and adapted as we went in order to survive the publishing nightmare of the last decade that has seen magazines and website owned and run by big corporations with bags of cash give up and close. As a result we are still here and I have every intention of making sure that in 6 months we are still here and I'd love to be here talking to you guys in another ten years. But what we have done and want to do is so much more than just hosting a website with a forum. To take Singletrack to the next phase has required us to put a sticking plaster over a mess of an evolved on the fly system of publishing. Right now we are ripping the plaster off and it hurts. But it's going to be much better soon enough.
Please bear with us a little longer.
Cheers Bikebouy.
Just testing..
What about the cake Mark? Cougar said there was cake, the he admitted he has lied now I don’t know what to believe. There better be cake and jelly on Saturday or I’m not renewing my P.
Hi all.
Our plan and how it has turned out has well, gone as expected.
I tried to explain at the start of this thread what our approach was and why. Clearly that’s been lost or I just didn’t make it clear enough.
It’s not a lack of experience that has taken us down this route but the opposite. I totally get that this is an unusual way to make a change to a website but I’ve tried many times to explain that this is NOT just a website. It is intricately tied in to a multitude of systems that have been added in the past from BACS Direct debit integrations to a bespoke and locally hosted subscriber database. There are other payments systems and APIs linking the site to a multitude of third party systems. I’m not going to detail everything but to summarise there is a spaghetti mess of things running in the background that have developed and evolved over the last decade. All of it is badly implemented and has been the principal reason why the old forum software, which was 8 years out of date and forked off into all manner of directions by our previous devs to solve issues that at the time didn’t exist as products we could just plugin.
The old forum had basically ground our future development to a halt and handcuffed us. It had to go. But the 9 million posts within had to stay. 75% of our site traffic comes from search and if we deleted the forum and started again we’d knobble ourselves search wise by breaking links to millions of posts. Google would not be happy. We could export and import all the post into a new forum but again we’d knobble all our millions of links. So we decided to stick with the BBpress platform but update it. All the 9 million posts are still there and all links are intact. Job 1 done.
Job 2 as about to happen. When that is launched we will be in a position to tackle the bugs that Job 1 introduced. THIS IS NOT THE RELAUNCHED FORUM. It is what had to happen in order that we could do what we are going to do next.
Why does it look like we are developing on a live system? Well, we have a testbed server with a replica of the live site and we use that extensively. We have a sandbox server too and we use that lots too. But with all the BACS, Custom payment systems and such that are intrinsically interwoven we had a choice to make.
We could set up our testbed server and install all our financial systems including all our subscribers accounts onto it and submit it for BACS approval and some cost in order that we could test the forum and site extensively before simply switch the old one off and activating the new one or we could do what we’ve done and safely install the new forum core functions knowing there would be quite a few cosmetic issues that would frustrate many of you that we would then fix.
In short we were facing a lot of downtime of the site and the subsequent financial losses (that go much further and deeper than just ads) or we do 90% of the hard work with 10% of the errors to fix with just a few hours downtime. The latter is the path we took. If we had more resources, both staff wise and financially we would have taken the site down for a few weeks and come back with a shiny new site. We also didn’t think that you lot would have liked that option either.
All that aside I’ve explained the situation to a lot of people face to face as an analogy..
STW is a really popular nightclub that is open 24/7 and is always throbbing with people. But the building is crumbling and the floors are rotten. What we really need to do is get everyone out, shut the doors and put up a sign saying ‘back in a few weeks once we’ve rebuilt the place’. The problem is we don;t have the resources to keep the business running while we’ve essentially shut down. So we are rebuilding the club while everyone is in it. And you lot are getting covered in plaster dust right now and I’m sorry about that.
Now, nothing I just said is going to change any minds of those who already know better that we do despite not being able to see anything of what we are actually dealing with. You can inspect the page code all you like but that’s still just the tip of an iceberg. So, to anyone who is technically minded enough to still think we are doing this all wrong I welcome you to our office to see what we are actually doing. This is a genuine invitation and if you took it up we’d welcome the chance to explain and show you in person what it is we are doing. All I ask is that you email me first and let me schedule an appointment – we have a great deal on across the whole business right now from events and shows to shooting, videoing and writing content. But I promise I’ll do what I can to accommodate you if you want to come and see us and what we are working with and trying to do. And if, at the end of your visit you don’t think, ‘wow, that’s a lot more complicated than I imagined’ then, well.. I dunno. I’m sure you’ll be back on here to explain how incompetent we are. But I’m prepared to take that risk. Because I’m pretty confident that we aren’t.
The one thing we are guilty of is getting ourselves in this mess in the first place. We developed on the fly and adapted as we went in order to survive the publishing nightmare of the last decade that has seen magazines and website owned and run by big corporations with bags of cash give up and close. As a result we are still here and I have every intention of making sure that in 6 months we are still here and I’d love to be here talking to you guys in another ten years. But what we have done and want to do is so much more than just hosting a website with a forum. To take Singletrack to the next phase has required us to put a sticking plaster over a mess of an evolved on the fly system of publishing. Right now we are ripping the plaster off and it hurts. But it’s going to be much better soon enough.
Please bear with us a little longer.
So what you are saying is we're not getting a non-copy+paste quote button in the new forum?
Please bear with us a little longer.
Of course, be a pleasure.
When can you get here Jamie? There's cake and I'll even shout your lunch. maybe a beer too.
🙂
I'm not sure my delicate sensibilities could take the sheer volume of passive aggressiveness that would greet me, Mark.
But thanks for the offer.
🙃
Oh offer him cake. 😡
Hmmm! I’ll test on my iPad later.
ill do it now instead....
Seems to work. Good effort... 💪
Attitude still stinks.
Interesting update from Mark - I'm sure many will miss it, but I've saved the link to it, so will post that in reply to any more "I still can't get to my last post!"s I see 🙂 Cheers Mark
Cheers Metal
What are you after Angel can you give us more detail of what you’d like? Mark has explained the process, again, and has invited people along to see what is going on.
It's not a problem Drac. I'm in no way expecting I'll satisfy everyone with anything we decide to do. There are those who will just hate us and in particular, me regardless of anything that is said or done. That's just the way it works. In the meantime we'll just keep doing what we think is right, knowing that for some it will be wrong.
Mark.
Thank you for taking the time to post a reply and explain what the decisions you have taken.
MODS.
Is it possible to post a sticky with some of the fixes that have been dealt with. Many of us are reposting the same faults as we find them, rather than knowing what has been mentioned and reported. It will probably save cover the same ground daily.
Thanks.
perhaps a sticky explaining to the uninitiated how to attach pics, embed video that kind of thing might help. I've edited the same post about 8 times trying to embed a You Tube video
oh, and the Forum Help page is a fair bit out of date
True Mark so true.
Sorry Bigblack I’ve been meaning to do that for a couple of weeks but work and home keep getting in the way.
The Our Forum thread has details.
Ooh got to go my computer has just updated what I asked it do ages ago. You think this place is bad try Citrix.
Just trying to get a video to work.
oh, drac, my quote was from a ipad2 on latest update...
Woohoo,il marche c’est bien. 👍
It’s not a problem Drac. I’m in no way expecting I’ll satisfy everyone with anything we decide to do. There are those who will just hate us and in particular, me regardless of anything that is said or done. That’s just the way it works. In the meantime we’ll just keep doing what we think is right, knowing that for some it will be wrong.
Speaking personally, I don't hate you or anyone on here. I've made my peace with the forum going in a certain direction. It's your baby and you can do with it as you have and will.
I'm just about sitting in the cheap seats throwing peanuts.
I'm just playing around..
I'm a bit bored..
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">I'm about to post a video..</span>
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It’s not a problem Drac. I’m in no way expecting I’ll satisfy everyone with anything we decide to do. There are those who will just hate us and in particular, me regardless of anything that is said or done.
No real hate just the deafening silence was getting a bit much, there was a lot of stuff properly broken and only Drac and Cougar trying to placate people.
BUT....
Hi all.
Our plan and how it has turned out has well, gone as expected.
I tried to explain at the start of this thread what our approach was and why. Clearly that’s been lost or I just didn’t make it clear enough.
If you expected to break all these things in day one then was there not some time to sort some of them out?
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Anyway best of luck fixing all the stuff, I'm hoping that the bread and butter forum posting of words, quotes, pics and videos ends up being simple and with a lot less clicks than it is now.
Finally one of the hardest lessons I have learned in customer relations, project delivery and project cock ups is that you write your combative and defensive reply, file it somewhere and then do the slightly apologetic one.
Finally one of the hardest lessons I have learned in customer relations, project delivery and project cock ups is that you write your combative and defensive reply, file it somewhere and then do the slightly apologetic one.
It’s good to see some progress being made and some interaction from the powers that be. Keep it up!
That quote above is absolutely right. I’ve got a few fruity drafts in my outlook folders at work. When I’m feeling a bit passive-aggressive after rowing back from what I’d really like to send, I have a read of them, have a s**** and fantasise about actually sending them!
Finally one of the hardest lessons I have learned in customer relations, project delivery and project cock ups is that you write your combative and defensive reply, file it somewhere and then do the slightly apologetic one.
What I learnt is you don’t apologise unless it’s meant and you have made a mistake, if the complainant is wrong you tell them why they are wrong.
There are those who will just hate us and in particular, me regardless of anything that is said or done.
Is that really how you see it?
Well here’s one example of emails we occasionally receive.
“You're a ****ing **** mate.”
So I hope you can see what Mark is getting at.
I meant that affectionately, Drac.
“You’re a * * mate.”
You have mates?
Who'da thunk it? 😉
I can Drac and abusive emails are totally unacceptable, but I hope he and the rest of the staff can see where their customers are coming from too, the updates are a good start, a couple of weeks late but a start. Most of us just wanted an idea of what was going on, when things were going to be fixed and what the end game was.
I will leave it there as emotions seem to be running high there.
Mark explanation does help
So I think what you are saying is that you haven't yet started fixing the issues we see. You are fixing issues behind the scenes. Then you will fix the errors we can see
Thanks
I think the 4th word in that was mean for me PP.
Jamie I missed your reply I was directing at you,
We can see the genuine complaints yes Mike, it was explained at least once before but got buried.
Yes and no Ampthill, some of the issues have been fixed, hopefully you can now see why it was slow and why the others will be a little while longer.
“You’re a * * mate.”
Well, now now dear fellow. Thats just down right rude!
Can we have the name of the offender 😉
Should we start a thread and guess who it is??
We have a number of forumites who would be so bold, we could start a sweepstake..
If I'm thinking of the same incident, that particular gem was from a (now former) classifieds-only user who took umbrage at us for having the audacity to remove one of his adverts (which IIRC was a URL to an advert on another website and not much else). He got a month's ban for his initial outburst and a life ban for his subsequent response to that suspension. Proper charmer.
(No, I can't remember the username, and wouldn't disclose it if I did.)
Thanks for the update, Mark
“What I learnt is you don’t apologise unless it’s meant and you have made a mistake, if the complainant is wrong you tell them why they are wrong.“
I’m assuming you don’t require goodwill at any point from the person complaining?
Never assume Zokes.
True Drac but your customers have no choice and admission results in law suits.
Rest of us means customer is kind of right and in this case no matter what the underlying reasons the upgrade has been shite, if you want to defend it then carry on, from a user perspective it's shite. Features broken, no help, no explanation. no advice as to how any new featrure/****up worked etc. Finally the owner showed up and still doesn't manage to apologise to his customers about how shambolic the upgrade was.
Anyway still waiting for some confirmation about my address change back to the UK, adjustment to the RoW mag charge etc,
You deserted the land down under for good then, Mike?
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Well here’s one example of emails we occasionally receive.
“You’re a * * mate.”
That's appalling.
Abuse should be hurled openly, for everyone to see. 🙂
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You deserted the land down under for good then, Mike?
Just having a play.
'Well here’s one example of emails we occasionally receive.
“You’re a * * mate.”
So I hope you can see what Mark is getting at.'
Yes, that is without doubt out of order and uncalled for....
'If I’m thinking of the same incident, that particular gem was from a (now former) classifieds-only user who took umbrage at us for having the audacity to remove one of his adverts (which IIRC was a URL to an advert on another website and not much else). He got a month’s ban for his initial outburst and a life ban for his subsequent response to that suspension. Proper charmer.'
....but with a bit of background, also almost completely unrelated to the subject. The fact that you are comparing an expletive ridden outburst from a 'classified-only user' clearly doing something against policy, to the response you are getting here from forum users really does say a lot. Nice.
I think perhaps the point is that whatever we say or do, to some people's eyes it'll be wrong.
As perfectly demonstrated.
Well here’s one example of emails we occasionally receive.
“You’re a * * mate.”
So I hope you can see what Mark is getting at.
I don't, actually. The email was quite obviously from a total nobber, but every site attracts its share of frothing loons, without that being an indicator of the views of site users in general. I suspect that far more users are simply of the view that the changes have been badly managed and the attitude of the owners leaves something to be desired.
Oh yeah it is bit of the extereme case but it’s not unusual to receive those for a variety of things, there are posts on here where people have had a proper rant about the current state of the forum. They have had a go at Mark but it’s Ok they put a smiley at the end.
Saying the state of the forum is currently shit is fine, I said that myself more than once but there has been updates, not always quick I know, and Mark has posted when he can. The thing it’s often the case when these are done the minority who love to shout shout louder and complain about the reponse. There is times when no matter what you can’t win.
I think that's a bit of a cop-out. It's very easy to point out the extremists but much less easy to justify why there is a growing body of people saying the same thing.
so vote with your feet, or at least with your p'ness, if you feel so strongly. We have the ultimate say in that in the end the site / forum will rise or fall based on the users. Abusing the owners/staff whether directly like the above or in niggly little digs - at the end of the day they opted for a certain course, have now explained why they opted for it, I don't really see what else more there is to say other than constructive stuff in debugging it as it goes on.
so vote with your feet, or at least with your p’ness, if you feel so strongly.
I've already said that I won't be renewing my subscription.
We have the ultimate say in that in the end the site / forum will rise or fall based on the users
That was my point: when you have a growing body of people saying the same thing, and you rely on those people for income, then it's prudent to listen, and show you're listening.
..... but their choice whether to or not. And I'd argue that a/ they have to an extent, and b/ if they decide not to, or not to the extent that others like, continuing to prod and poke (or worse) is pointless.
….. but their choice whether to or not. And I’d argue that a/ they have to an extent, and b/ if they decide not to, or not to the extent that others like, continuing to prod and poke (or worse) is pointless.
It seems pretty clear that the steps taken by Mark are in response to user feedback, so there's no reason to suppose that more can't be pushed for. Maybe you're happy with the few crumbs that have been thrown, that doesn't mean that everyone else should shut up. Have you considered that people are commenting because they want a vibrant resource to continue and thrive, and believe that the current course is the wrong one? Your "like it or lump it" attitude seems odd, to say the least.
Where did I say like it or lump it?
I said that IMHO we've done enough shitflinging, and moaning about whether it should have been done this way or whether Mark should be on hourly in sackcloth and ashes apologising, we should now focus on positive debugging.
I said that IMHO we’ve done enough shitflinging, and moaning about whether it should have been done this way or whether Mark should be on hourly in sackcloth and ashes apologising, we should now focus on positive debugging.
Giving feedback on how we want the forum to be and to be developed is not "shitflinging" or "moaning", and I find your pejorative descriptors, coupled with argumentum ad absurdum regarding what we would like from Mark to be ironic really, because you're doing exactly the same thing: attributing an extremist position to others to make it easier to justify your own.
Well, actually reading Mark's post about what's going on it's clear that there's a number of systems that in the past have been hacked together and they are now trying to sort them out. The forums are one subsidiary part of this.
I don't know the regulations regarding BACS but from Mark's comments about the cost of setting up a temporary server with it on, it sounds like each node is tied to a particular server/system probably to prevent fraud/money laundering. There's the mention of other payment systems as well, they'll have their own rules to follow.
It's a bit like taking your car to the garage and complaining that they didn't polish the bodywork when they spent all their time rebuilding the engine.
Edit: If I come across a bug/fault, I'll raise it. The main problem here is that really you need a proper issue tracking system in which to report bugs. Someone then has to take care of duplicates put in by people who won't take the time to see if it's already been reported.
Link to videos works by just copying and pasting the url into the box. Check.
Clicking on the quotes symbol works. Check.
Emoticons next...
At last. Coming along nicely.
👍🏼
😬
I still don't get any option to choose emoticons - I can add a smiley 🙂 or sad 🙁 because I know the keystrokes but I'm not geeky enough to remember the others.
It seems pretty clear that the steps taken by Mark are in response to user feedback, so there’s no reason to suppose that more can’t be pushed for. Maybe you’re happy with the few crumbs that have been thrown, that doesn’t mean that everyone else should shut up. Have you considered that people are commenting because they want a vibrant resource to continue and thrive, and believe that the current course is the wrong one? Your “like it or lump it” attitude seems odd, to say the least.
Mark's statement is pretty clear I thought. He's acknowledged that the current situation is less than ideal, but they've made a business decision to proceed the way they are taking into account lots of other factors which aren't immediately visible or obvious to everyone else. Communication could have been better, sure, but it looks like that's being addressed now too.
I'd respectfully suggest that what people may or may not believe is by the by as they aren't in full possession of the facts. It's like sitting in a pub with a load of football fans who all know better than the coach. And I don't mean that as an insult, just that as I've said all along there's a lot more going on than what we can see.
By all means continue to feed back your thoughts here. But the "few crumbs" is just the first step as Mark said.
There's been plenty of shitflinging and moaning in the past 45 pages, even in the last page.
Attitude still stinks.
....the upgrade has been shite, if you want to defend it then carry on, from a user perspective it’s shite. Features broken, no help, no explanation. no advice as to how any new featrure/**** worked etc. Finally the owner showed up and still doesn’t manage to apologise to his customers about how shambolic the upgrade was.
The irony is that it isn't the state of the forum that makes me spend less time here now, it's the increasing nobbiness of the people who frequent it.
No has he emoticons but the forum does accept those from devices with them built into the keyboard.
📱
🤪
The irony is that it isn’t the state of the forum that makes me spend less time here now, it’s the increasing nobbiness of the people who frequent it.
Very much this.
The main problem here is that really you need a proper issue tracking system in which to report bugs. Someone then has to take care of duplicates put in by people who won’t take the time to see if it’s already been reported.
We have a shared document with issues on it which we've collated from this post and others. Duplicates don't matter because we can either add any additional information presented or simply ignore them.
>We have a shared document with issues on it
Is one of them WTF is the quoted text size set so ridiculously large?
There’s been plenty of shitflinging and moaning in the past 45 pages, even in the last page.
I wouldn't have expressed it that way, but I don't think it's wrong.
I’d respectfully suggest that what people may or may not believe is by the by as they aren’t in full possession of the facts. It’s like sitting in a pub with a load of football fans who all know better than the coach. And I don’t mean that as an insult, just that as I’ve said all along there’s a lot more going on than what we can see.
I don't recall claiming to have all the facts. I'm just a customer and revenue generator, who sees a highly problematic upgrade, one not replicated anywhere else I've used on the web.
I think perhaps the point is that whatever we say or do, to some people’s eyes it’ll be wrong.
And so long as 'some' means a prejudiced minority, then that isn't really a problem - even if one or two then go effing and jeffing at you. There are enough idiots out there that they will almost always form at least a small minority of every population. This really isn't the issue.
Using a few isolated examples of outright (and totally out of order) personal abuse and then projecting this onto the rest of the folk here is actually quite insulting and also reinforces what seems to be a 'them' and 'us' mentality.
Sure there are a few malcontents in here who want STW to fail - presumably they've had some kind of run-in with Mark or someone else - but forget them.
What there is a majority of is people who use this place because they like it, like the vibe and have settled on it 'organically'. People who generate the ad revenue with clicks etc. They don't want to see it fail, but they don't want to be frustrated by trying to use it either. They (like me) are only here because they like it - if something is done that cocks it up and makes it so they don't like it then they will drift away. They won't send an expletive-filled rant. They'll lament it occasionally, but they are not the types with "STW Forever" tattooed on their limbs either.
I don't think anyone is "projecting" anything, that's not how I read it anyway. I'm certainly not.
<div>theotherjonv
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The irony is that it isn’t the state of the forum that makes me spend less time here now, it’s the increasing nobbiness of the people who frequent it.
The real irony is that it is the piss poor state of the forum that is bringing out the inner nobbiness of people. 😉
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I don’t think anyone is “projecting” anything, that’s not how I read it anyway. I’m certainly not.
OK.
Probably best not to use such examples in this context, then.
We have a shared document with issues on it which we’ve collated from this post and others. Duplicates don’t matter because we can either add any additional information presented or simply ignore them.
shared document, eh?
that's an example of bleeding edge software development technologies, right there...
It doesn't cost much, well anything actually, to install something like Redmine along with Git to give yourself a basic bug tracking and software version control system. A few minutes to download and a few more to set up and you're ready to rock and roll.
I've got a basic club membership management web "site" on my home computer. No-one else is ever likely to see or use it, I'm the only person to have ever worked on it. New features/bugs get added to the system, I create a branch in git to work on a particular problem. Check the work in, merge back to master, close the feature/bug. The code for the actual club website is also in git, same applies but obviously people see the end result. If there's a problem after I've pushed changes then it's easy to roll back to a working version and re-release that.