Formula 1 2025 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

RB designa car to be as fast as possible around the tracks within the engineering constraints.
Those constraints include:
- F1 Rules
- Aerodynamics
- Material science
- Tyre Technology
- Driver capabilities
- etc etc

If they can find a material with greater capabilities than another material then they can exploit that. Perhaps carbon fibre is more rigid and lighter than aluminium so making the wings out of CF allows you to save weight that can be used elsewhere, with more benefit.
If they can find a driver who can cope with a more twitchy car then they can exploit that by reducing the useable operating window for the driver and using the savings on other things.

The car is not designed around Max. Having Max as a driver gives then less compromise on the engineering solution due to the human limitations. Other drivers may not be able to drive well within that smaller operating window.

The car is not designed around Max. Having Max as a driver gives then less compromise on the engineering solution due to the human limitations. Other drivers may not be able to drive well within that smaller operating window.

Exactly.

There’s no difference between winning by 40 seconds and winning by 4 seconds.

As a data point of a single race, maybe, but as a metric of overall car performance it’s a huge difference. It’s much harder for another team to find 41 seconds of pace than 5 seconds. If you win by narrow margins and don’t develop, you start losing very quickly.

It’s true that you don’t just add theoretical performance to make it faster in a wind tunnel if that can’t be exploited by a driver in real world conditions. But if one of your drivers is managing to exploit the performance and the other isn’t, you don’t slow the faster one down to make the slower one faster. In that scenario the limiting factor is not the car, it’s the second driver, and that’s what you look to replace.

Nice example of engineering compromise due to human limitations - https://www.autoevolution.com/news/f1-air-conditioning-how-drivers-will-be-cooled-during-hot-races-237286.html

Or they could just not goto the world’s despots when it’s too hot. Clearly money is more important than racing

Couple of places are reporting Perez as out at Redbull, nothing official yet though.

thols2Full Member
The car is not designed around Max. Having Max as a driver gives then less compromise on the engineering solution due to the human limitations. Other drivers may not be able to drive well within that smaller operating window.

Exactly.

It's not about the car being designed from the outset for Max, nor is it that he's some miracle superhuman driver that can drive a 'difficult' car that nobody else can.

It's that the team continually incorporate his feedback,  and over time it makes the car closer and closer to his perfect setup.

And here's the major problem: Max's preferences are so far away from a typical setup that it makes it next to impossible for the second driver to get a setup that they can relax with and drive naturally. They fall further and further back and start overdriving to try and make up time and end up making errors all over the place.

This is all covered clearly by Albon in the video I posted.

No team is going to slow down a multiple world champion to make a car that their no 2 driver feels more comfortable with. Max can exploit the downforce that they find in the wind tunnel, Perez can't. They aren't designing the car for Max, they are designing it around wind tunnel findings.

Official F1 instagram reporting Perez is gone from Red Bull. What a shock! Not…

bigdaddyFull Member
Official F1 instagram reporting Perez is gone from Red Bull. What a shock! Not…

Good stuff, now, who's their next victim? 🙂

BBC reporting the same. About time!!

I just hope the new #2 is quick enough to make it awkward for the team from time to time.

<unsurprised face>

The second RB seat will always be a poisoned chalice going directly against Max.

Whos going to get the second seat? Lawson?

Who's gonna provide the Tequila now?
Nice bottles the last couple of Christmases 🙁

It’s going to be Lawson. Not sure he’s an improvement to be honest - seems a bit meh so far.

If they want a consistent points scorer the best one free is Bottas.

Ferrari have confirmed Lewis Hamilton’s official start date with the team:
Plan A - 1 January 2025
Plan B - 1 August 2025
Plan C - 35 Julember 7953
Plan D - to be confirmed: we are checking

How many races until Lawson is gone? I think 6.

The rumour mill is in overdrive, I've heard that both Sainz and Albon are going to RB (and a lot of cash going to Williams) Obviously can't both be true, and my guess is neither... Also Bottas and Lawson. About the only person not rumoured to be going there is poor old Yuki

It’s going to be Lawson. Not sure he’s an improvement to be honest – seems a bit meh so far.

Too early to say. He did a few races in 2023 and adapted really well, then the end of this season.  He hasn't finished a complete season yet. I think Red Bull were impressed with his racecraft, he was dropped in the deep end but was immediately willing to get out there and fight with much more experienced drivers. We'll have a better idea of how he rates in 12 months time. Let's face it, he doesn't have to beat Max, just qualify near the front and take points off the other title contenders. That's what Perez was hired to do and failed at.

Personally I wouldn't put Lawson in the Red Bull, too inexperienced. Tsunodo certainly has experience, but Horny doesn't rate him for some reason, probably because he's there because of Honda. They need a fast steady driver who can stick it at the pointy end of the grid.  Would Red Bull risk upsetting the Verstappen's with Sainz? Doubt it, Albon has already been there, doubt that he'd want to return. Bottas could be a good fit for 2025, but would he want to into the pit.

Red Bull have really ***** themselves over here for the constructors championship, and possibly the drivers too.

On a technicality, Kissy Horny's poor judgement must've cost RB a fair few million because they've now needed to pay a chunk of compensation to Perez for terminating a contract they shouldn't ever have agreed to. Does that compensation get excluded from the cost cap as a driver salary

Do they tho?  He "resigned" apparently....

Probably exempt, but he should be held to account over it. Let's face it, in the real world of business the money has to come from somewhere, and the balance sheet doesn't hide millions easily.

Besides the writing has been on the wall for a couple of seasons now, even Perez must've been aware with every press conference starting "So how long have you got left?"

Twodogs

Full Member

Do they tho? He “resigned” apparently….

Mutual consent according to the BBC, so think probably more to it.

Sergio Perez is to leave Red Bull two years before the end of his contract after reaching a termination agreement with the team.

Horny doesn’t rate him for some reason, probably because he’s there because of Honda. They need a fast steady driver who can stick it at the pointy end of the grid.

I think Red Bull believe Tsunoda is too immature and emotional. He has the speed but I don't think they see him as steady.

he should be held to account over it. Let’s face it, in the real world of business the money has to come from somewhere, and the balance sheet doesn’t hide millions easily.

Horner is quite a dislikeable person but you have to respect his achievements. He was the youngest team principal on the grid, he took over a struggling organization, hired the right people, and built it into a powerhouse. Yes, the Perez debacle is a debacle but most teams on the grid would be thrilled to win four drivers championships in a row, even if they finished third in the constructors.

The other thing against Yuki is Honda have cost Red Bull hundreds of millions to set up their own engine programme.

If Honda hadn't flip-flopped with stay-leave-stay indecision they'd have been going into 2026 with Honda power and probably Yuki in the 2nd seat.

They may not feel obliged to placate Honda now.

Lawson now confirmed for 2nd Red Bull seat.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/liam-lawson-gets-2025-red-bull-seat/

the-muffin-manFull Member
Lawson now confirmed for 2nd Red Bull seat.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/liam-lawson-gets-2025-red-bull-seat//blockquote >

Excellent

Lawson actually seems pretty robust so hopefully we'll have some fireworks. Bet there's a few choice words in Tsunado's vicinity right now 🙂

Is Perez going to Torro Rosso or is he out completely?

 

Is Perez going to Torro Rosso or is he out completely?

He's out, apparently. Isack Hadjar is heavily favoured to get the RB seat. There's a good chance that Verstappen will leave in 2026 or 27 so I think Red Bull want to try to find two drivers capable of driving for the big team. Perez will never be that.

so think probably more to it.

Yup - $$$$

Maybe sceptical, but I don't see what's changed at RB that will make Lawson more successful than every no.2 since Ricciardo arrived

Nothing. I'd bet money that he doesn't last the entire season.

Red Bull just continue to pick up the dice and roll them again and again until they land a double six.

Meanwhile Bottas is back at Mercedes; the driver who, alongside Hamilton at (it would seem) his peak, delivered the exact performance that Red Bull want alongside Max.

I don’t see Red Bull fixing their problems until they hire from outside. It looks like they’re scared of losing Max in the next couple of years and just want the next superstar to be a lucky dip from their driver pool. Meanwhile, that doesn’t build them a secure constructors’ bid, and it risks being all at sea in the driver market if they fall down the order in 2026.

Something seems to have lost the team’s nerve… whether it was Mateschitz passing, Horner being under fire, Newey leaving, whatever it was, they just seem desperate.

Something seems to have lost the team’s nerve

That's the thing with their driver development program. They've poured millions into sponsoring young drivers but ended up with Perez. Verstappen wasn't even one of their sponsored talents. The junior team should have been a chance for drivers like Albon to develop before being promoted, but they just burned through all their talent and now are struggling.

Right. It has the signs of there having been a clear instruction that all that investment now needs to bear fruit or else. Problem is, it leaves them boxed into doing the same thing they’ve been doing since Ricciardo left: as you say, just burning up their talent. Meanwhile it also means they’ve missed the boat on some very good drivers who were on the market this year.

Lawson seems to have a bit of attitude*. How long before he doesn't want to let MV past and it all goes wrong?

*not saying thats bad, or good for that matter...

Reading between the lines…

“We're acutely aware that if we're not able to provide an opportunity for Yuki – being, in all honesty, this year [2025] - does it make sense [to keep him]?” Horner said.

…this seems to say what I expected: that Lawson has to deliver in the first half of this year otherwise Yuki gets a go in the big car. Same old Red Bull, gives you wings and then expects you to fly close to the sun.

Video of Lewis saying goodbye to MB.

^^^^ it's a bit dusty in here ...

…this seems to say what I expected: that Lawson has to deliver in the first half of this year otherwise Yuki gets a go in the big car. Same old Red Bull, gives you wings and then expects you to fly close to the sun.

Its probably more the case that:
"we wont be using Honda engines from 2026, so dont have to run a Japanese driver to keep them happy"

 Same old Red Bull

TBH, I don't think many other teams would fare that much better, but, yeah this particular issue is entirely one of their own devising. You got to feel for Yuki, he's done everything asked of him, and watched as a succession of drivers come along to be told "Beat Yuki, and you get to drive the in no#1 team", and neither Riccardo nor Lawson have achieved it, but still Lawson gets the nod.

Still, it should be all the motivation he needs to at least put the CASHAPP Visa Barclaycard Mastercard American Express Diners Club higher up the grid every qualis, even if he can't beat them in the race

Its probably more the case that: “we wont be using Honda engines from 2026, so dont have to run a Japanese driver to keep them happy”

Oh, of course—we can take that as read. There was never any way Yuki was stying there long term without Honda. But what might be lurking below the surface of what Horner’s saying, is that there’s the possibility of an opportunity for him this year—which would only be if they swap him and Lawson. That approach is straight out of the Red Bull playbook: launch a young hotshot into the top team and see if they sink or swim. Immediately. If Horner’s alluding to a possibility of Yuki having actual race time in that car then it’s because they’re running that playbook on Lawson, they’re not settling him in for the long haul until he’s proven himself. They seemed to have plenty of uncharacteristic patience in Checo, who was far more experienced and really shouldn’t have needed nurturing, but perversely they seem to be back to their total lack of patience with the fresh young talent that does need that nurture,

You got to feel for Yuki

I guess he’s ended up as a sort of miniaturised Tommy Byrne. Not as outrageously talented, nor as outrageously unemployable, but still somehow having done enough to permanently close some doors on the basis of first impressions.

 They seemed to have plenty of uncharacteristic patience in Checo,

But he was on the pace immediately. He didn't require any 'nurturing'. When he started he said "It will take me five races to get used to the car" He won his sixth race for the team. In his first season he was "a legend" and did exactly what was asked of him. He then delivered the team's first ever 1-2 in the driver's championship and two constructors championships, although was obviously less pivotal in that in 2023.

He started this year well with a string of podiums, and then his performance just nosedived for whatever reason.

Yes, they showed more patience with him in the final two thirds of 2024 than they showed with Kvyat, Gasly, Albon but prior to then he had decent results and was doing what was asked.

I agree that he had to go unfortunately, the last two thirds of 2024 had been utterly abysmal, but before that he had been exactly what they needed.

.

To add one more stat to the 'Checo bashing'. In his entire F1 career Logan Sargent out qualified Alex Albon once. In 2024 he out qualified Checo six times.

I got the impression that the Red Bull was virtually undriveable, a car which was flattered to a very high level by Verstappen’s ability to drive around it, and also a car that should very much take the blame for Red Bull’s lack of enough points for the constructor’s championship, rather than Checo. I hope he got a very satisfactory pay out, because he has earned one

I don't often quote Whinger Spice, but he did say 'If the season was twenty four races at Baku, Checo would be world champion'

I can't think of anything else positive he's said in the last few months.

So today I happened to find myself in the Design Museum in Zürich, which currently has a large exhibition of Olivieri Toscani’s work, the most famous of which is his groundbreaking advertising work for Benetton in the 1990s. Part of the exhibition is an interview video in which he discusses the images and the reaction to them. He describes “real fights” about them and relates an anecdote about Flávio Briatore who was particularly vocal: “‘Why are you using n**roes?’ he [Briatore] said, ‘You should use Trump’—he actually used the word ‘n**groes’. Real racism.”

So if anyone had a dislike for Flav and wanted some confirmation bias, turns out he’s not just a mendacious little cheat but also a racist.

Why is that so utterly unsurprising?

In other Swiss news, the Swiss Transport Museum at Lucerne includes a Red Bull Racing room, which holds a few Red Bull F1 cars (and Johnny Herbert’s Red Bull-sponsored Sauber), a simulator, and a video wall which seemed to be largely an exercise in trolling as it appeared to be replaying Red Bull’s favourite bits from Abu Dhabi 2021, complete with smug commentary; eg (as below) “Max Verstrappen (sic—yes, they really did fail to spell the name of their golden boy) overtakes Lewis Hamilton in an ice-cold maneuver 60 seconds before the end of the race.” Bleugh.

They seemed to have plenty of uncharacteristic patience in Checo

My understanding is that Checo brought quite a lot of sponsorship money with him from South American markets. I wonder if part of the timing was so the team could find alternative revenues from somewhere else. I read over the weekend that one of RB sponsors is pulling out and not renewing their contract.

Mercedes have joint up with Adidas now, will we see Stealth gripped race boots?

I read over the weekend that one of RB sponsors is pulling out and not renewing their contract.

Yep Bybit have ended their deal...

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-news-sponsors-f1-2025-bybit-exit

...at the end of the article it seems like they've filled the gap already. I can't see Red Bull struggling for money.