MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Lando let himself down there, should have let him past asap and raced to the finish.
Bet the deal was they raced until the final round of pit stops.
If Max isn't careful he risks losing the support of the team. It's one thing to say "We've lost direction" etc, but another to say "I'm making the best of the ****** strategy you've put me on!".
Loved the RB comment "It's just childish "
Yes, he's starting to remind me of Alonso at his worst - he seems to think that public criticism will motivate people to do better rather than to become resentful.
Perhaps RB know he's on his way to Mercedes so have stopped pandering to him?
Can't see Toto letting him play his 'pooter games till 3am in a morning on a race weekend though!
A bit surprised/disappointed to see Lando saying Piastri deserved it… Norris put three seconds on him on the final stint and didn’t drive himself off the track twice… sure, Piastri got the first corner but that was all, and that was in no small part because Norris couldn’t just drive into Max. I’d expected him to stick to the point that Piastri should catch up if he wanted to swap back.
Above everything else, I just can't see any benefit of rearranging their 1-2 at that point, except to give Piastri the warm fuzzies of a first win - and while a win's a win, who would want to be effectively gifted their first one like that?
Given the relative pace by the end, Norris is probably kicking himself for not giving the place back several laps earlier and then re-passing him with ease.
On the plus side, great to see 3/4 competitive teams again, and Max whining about it before driving into someone.
Above everything else, I just can’t see any benefit of rearranging their 1-2 at that point, except to give Piastri the warm fuzzies of a first win – and while a win’s a win, who would want to be effectively gifted their first one like that?
Yeah, agree. I’m going to read a lot into Norris’s engineer’s message of “remember every Sunday morning briefing that we’ve had”—McLaren must have had some sort of long term agreement in place as to how they would manage the positions of the cars to avoid unnecessary fighting on track. If it is indeed something like holding positions after the final scheduled stop, then that would explain why Lando didn’t swap positions immediately: he’d have had to stay behind Piastri, never showing he was faster, and increasing the risk from behind.
The problem is that they’re now the fastest cars on track, they’re on course for the constructors’ championship, and one of their drivers looks like the only guy on the grid who has a slim chance of taking the drivers’ title. In that situation I’d be sitting Piastri down and setting his expectations that the team maximises Lando’s points. It just seems unambitious if they’re not doing that.
Honestly, when they pitted Lando I assumed it was for exactly that reason: to get him 25 points without having to issue any orders to swap the cars. It looked like smart team management to me, because if they can do that in enough races this year they’ll take both championships. The fact that it turned out to be the exact opposite of that is baffling.
Thought the same too, why didn't Norris give the place back early and then overtake? Also, why didn't the team prioritise Norris as he,s the most likely to challenge for the drivers championship.
Then I remembered, Team Principles prioritise the constructors championship above anything else, it's on that result that their job depends..
It's the public who care about the drivers championship, not really cariing who wins the constructors championship.
Though I'll concede; all the above does not explain why Perez still has a seat at Red Bull...
Yep. @Bez totally agree, and I heard Toto say more or less the same thing.
"The first rules of engagement. We didn't want to call it rules anymore. We said racing intent."
McLaren have got to get a grip of managing the drivers on the track, set out the expectations and sometimes you've just got to be a bastard, and if that means Piastri has to wait for the first win, then c'est la vie, this isn't kindergarten
Norris is going to be their best bet for consistently scoring points, (he wasn't the driver than ran off track) and despite Norris taking his sweet time following orders, they've only got themselves to blame for it, and it's not the first time recently that McLaren haven't acted like they have the best car and a good chance of the win. They need to learn how to do that pretty quickly
They need to learn how to do that pretty quickly
I think they also need to understand the implications of ordering one of their drivers to lose at least 5 seconds on the road, which is what Lando would have needed to do in order to let Piastri past at the first time of asking and not then ruin his final set of tyres. They may have the fastest car now, but on days when Max isn’t having an absolute meltdown inside his helmet and repeatedly going off the circuit trying to get past Hamilton, they don’t have so much margin as to be able to do that comfortably.
On a tangent to that, I did start to wonder whether Max and GP were giving a glimpse into more than just a single-race breakdown on Max’s part. Max has been vocal about strategy calls before but it was notable that the gloves were well and truly off this time, while GP seemed to be calmly offloading some small but seemingly long-running chips from his shoulder. Hints of something more ominous?
I’ve seen stuff this morning, that Alonso let stroll through with the plan to be given the place back later, but stroll didn’t. Can’t imagine Alonso being impressed.
I've only watched the highlights but I don't get why McLaren would gift Piastri the win? He may have got the the first corner first but that doesn't entitle him to anything if he's not the faster driver over the race? A win's a win but I'd rather my first F1 win on merit rather than team orders.
Watching the toddler have a melt down was hilarious. More of that this season please then a slow slide into obscurity.
My guess is that Max is just feeling the pressure in general. At the start of the year it looked like he was going to cruise to another title, but suddenly he's having to fight for it in a car that is difficult to drive and no longer the fastest, plus his teammate can't qualify well enough to help with strategy. Red Bull have been a bit lucky over the last few races with McLaren struggling on strategy, but the upgrade package didn't seem to make any difference and now that the Red Bull isn't the fastest car, they have to make every strategy call correctly to have a chance at winning. Plus the Horner scandal, Newey leaving, and having Jos around will all have contributed to pressure. Hamilton had people who could calm him down when he was under pressure, I don't think Max has anyone able to do that for him.
or willing by the sound of the team radio - I think he's burned those bridges.
The press around Red Bull is amazing. Nothwithstanding the ironic moaning about driving standards, Max has now told either Mechanics or Fans or both if they don’t like his attitude they can **** off and go home. Horner is telling the most obvious lie in saying that the “childish” comments were aimed at the rest of the drivers moaning at Red Bull.
And no warnings, fines or penalties for Red Bull for any of it. This is why Max Verstappen feels entitled to get away with it.
SpeederFull Member
I’ve only watched the highlights but I don’t get why McLaren would gift Piastri the win? He may have got the the first corner first but that doesn’t entitle him to anything if he’s not the faster driver over the race? A win’s a win but I’d rather my first F1 win on merit rather than team orders.Watching the toddler have a melt down was hilarious. More of that this season please then a slow slide into obscurity.
Piastri won the place fair and square at turn 1 (great move as well) and he was fast enough to keep Norris behind in the race.
When you have two drivers in contention, typically the driver in front gets first dibs on pitstop strategy. In that case, if Piastri calls it badly then of course Norris should be allowed to keep the place.
However in this case the team chose the pit strategy, and the strategy they chose was for Norris to take the undercut both times. I believe they did this to protect against either Hamilton or Verstappen taking an early stop and overtaking Norris.
Now, clearly from the radio messages this scenario had already been discussed prior, and it was very much expected that if it occurred, the driver benefitting would give the place back.
So whilst it could look like Norris was cheated or that Piastri was 'gifted' the win by team orders, that's not really the case (IMHO YMMV etc etc).
Also: if Norris had not given the place back, he is guaranteeing that Piastri will never ever help him again.
if Piastri calls it badly then of course Norris should be allowed to keep the place.
Or fluffs up a lap sufficiently badly so that it gives Norris a chance in the undercut when he gets told to pit first. The whole race was badly managed by a team who clearly aren't used to have to make these sorts of calls.
@multi21 - I only watched the YT highlights - it wasn't that clear cut in the best bits edit. I might watch again.
The Max meltdown made it the best race of the (last 5?) year/s for me.
So the rumours seem to be true - it may be Alpine-Mercedes from next season!...
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/renault-set-to-drop-works-f1-engine-alpine-mercedes-deal-close/
...next season seems a stretch though - it would be madness to redesign the car for one season.
next season seems a stretch though – it would be madness to redesign the car for one season.
I think the engines are all designed with standardized mounting points so they can be bolted to the tub interchangeably. The cooling systems will need to be revised so that will affect the aero and packaging but having a decent engine would be well worth the hassle. As I recall, the team that later became Merc did ok with a Mercedes engine bolted into a car designed around a Honda engine.
Taking my F1 mad son to Spa at the weekend for his 16th birthday present, initially thought it'd be boring, judging by the past couple of seasons, but this season has hotted up just in time. Hoping for a Lando win as he's my sons favorite.
We've never been to an F1 race before, I've always fancied it but could never justify the price of Silverstone, but this has worked as part of a bigger holiday. Hopefully the weather stays nice...
He'll be wearing a Mclaren Lando shirt, but I think I might wear my Leicester Tigers rugby shirt (green, red & white hoops) on Sunday, so keep an eye out!
ads678Full Member
Taking my F1 mad son to Spa at the weekend for his 16th birthday present, initially thought it’d be boring, judging by the past couple of seasons, but this season has hotted up just in time. Hoping for a Lando win as he’s my sons favorite.
Brilliant, I'm so jealous! Enjoy
Taking my F1 mad son to Spa at the weekend for his 16th birthday present, initially thought it’d be boring, judging by the past couple of seasons, but this season has hotted up just in time. Hoping for a Lando win as he’s my sons favorite.
We’ve never been to an F1 race before, I’ve always fancied it but could never justify the price of Silverstone, but this has worked as part of a bigger holiday. Hopefully the weather stays nice…
He’ll be wearing a Mclaren Lando shirt, but I think I might wear my Leicester Tigers rugby shirt (green, red & white hoops) on Sunday, so keep an eye out!
Spa is a great race to go to. Went there about 15 years ago and had a great time. Watching the cars go through eau rouge and shortly after screaming up kemmel straight is amazing. If you've got general admission it's worth going round a few of the areas during all the practice sessions just to get a feel for it all.
If you're off to Spa (v jealous) take walking boots, golfing brollies and a couple of folding stools strapped to the backs of your rucksacks.
You have an amazing time 🙂
Is that Audi thing real?
Is that Audi thing real?
Yep. Seidl out, Binotto in.
Is that basically team principal? If so, I'm surprised....not sure he covered himself in glory at Ferrari
If you’re off to Spa (v jealous) take walking boots, golfing brollies and a couple of folding stools strapped to the backs of your rucksacks.
Yep got comfy hiking trainers, emergency ponchos, and a couple of fold up stools ready to go. Don't want to carry too much though as we're cycling there from a few Km away. Wife and daughter dropping us off in Stavelot then we cycle to the bike parking bit near the karting track. Can't camp on site as we have a dog with us as well!...
We've got the bronze general admission tickets so can go anywhere apart from sitting the grandstands I think.
I think Binotto did a good job on the engineering side at Ferrari but when they promoted him, he just had too much on his plate. He has to be worth a lot to a team like Audi that has ambitions of challenging for championships. Whether the corporate side of things give him the time and resources to do the job properly will be the big question.
Is Mike Krack a real name? Sounds like a Moe's bar regular.
"Has anyone seen Mike Krack?" "Is Mike Krack available?"
Mike Krack is a real person, currently at Aston Martin, alongside Ben Dover and Peter Fyle.
Phil McCrack is also at Aston.
The s****ing about Mike Krack was big for about a week two years ago.
Bezzie mates James Hunts grandson Issac....
I'm not surprised to see Binotto back in F1, though i am surprised to see him replace Seidl
I'm off to Spa with my son organised it, it's a bit chaotic flying to Germany, staying in Holland and Spa is in Belgium
Using a park and ride this time, two years ago it was after midnight before we could get out the car park at Silverstone due to no one marshalling the traffic. Robbing farmers take your money £35 but too miserable to pay folk to direct traffic out
Oof, that sounds rubbish. We looked at camping on site but we're taking the dog so can't. Some of the nearby campsite hve special rates for this weekend and cost a bloody fortune. We found a nice one about 35 mins drive away and the wife can drop us off so we can cycle down a nice looking easy cycle track that runs past the race track. Hopefully should make it easier to get in and out....
After the race weekend we're carrying on holiday for another 2 weeks, heading down to the Alps.
Looking like a 10 place grid penalty is on the cards for Max at Spa. Cue more toys out of pram?
Looking like a 10 place grid penalty is on the cards for Max at Spa. Cue more toys out of pram?
Source?
https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-grid-penalty-spa-report
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-set-for-belgian-gp-f1-grid-penalty/10638215/
It was also mentioned a few races ago that one of his engines was beyond repair. And Spa is the obvious place to add a new one to the pool as it's easy to overtake there.
He's going to get an engine penalty somewhere, Spa is the obvious place to take it. Not confirmed though, just quite likely.
Is there anywhere one can see how many engies gearboxes a driver has used so far? I wonder if RB are better, worse, average for the rest of the grid?
Cheers @the-muffin-man that makes for interesting reading. Those Honda engines don't seem that robust...
Couldn’t be happening to a nicer person.
Shame it’s not a grid penalty for behaving like a childish **** though.
Ocon confirmed at HAAS
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/haas-signs-esteban-ocon-multi-year-f1-deal-explained/
Ocon and Bearman then. Good luck Ollie! 🙂
Is anybody confirmed at alpine alongside gasly?
Ocon's history of joining teams that Hulk's leaving.
https://twitter.com/wearetherace/status/1816402739045314769
Is anybody confirmed at alpine alongside gasly?
Mick Schumacher in the frame according to Helmet.
Autosport saying that Verstappen will have a grid penalty this weekend.
https://twitter.com/autosport/status/1816429453402103875
Shame it’s not a grid penalty for behaving like a childish **** though.
Genuinely surprised that he didn't get a penalty for causing a collison at Hungary tbh
Genuinely surprised that he didn’t get a penalty for causing a collison at Hungary tbh
With the move on Hamilton? To be fair, Hamilton did turn in (it’s pretty easy to see hand movements when you wear bright yellow gloves…) so I’m a little surprised that Hamilton didn’t get one.
What’s less surprising is Verstappen complaining about “divebombing” one week and then doing it himself the next, and Marko claiming that Max was fully in control and would have made the corner. For a Red Bull employee, Helmut sure churns out a lot of Kool-Aid.
Teams that still have space(s) at the end of the year to fill...
Mercedes, Alpine, Williams, RB VisaMasterCardAmericanExpress, Haas, and maybe Red Bull?
Is that right?
IIRC, the stewards looked at the Max-Lewis crash and said that Lewis followed his normal racing line and left enough room for Max and that it was just a racing incident. Not every incident requires a penalty.
Oh, I’m certainly not saying it should have been a penalty, just that I wouldn’t have totally fallen off my seat if Hamilton had been given one. Max was clearly spearing across the racing line fully locked up after an attempt that would be generously described as optimistic (and only slightly less generously as desperate) so I’d agree that at that point it’s hard to point the finger at someone else for being the major cause.
It probably helped the decision that Verstappen lost 2 places because of his own actions whereas Hamilton managed to keep his position without any lasting problems. Calling it a racing incident in that case is probably justified by the "let them race" desires of F1/FIA/stewards.
I’ve seen some rumours on X
I saw some rumours on X that J.D. Vance had sex with a sofa. I'm gonna consider it unconfirmed until I see it with my own eyes.
J.D. Vance had sex with a sofa. I’m gonna consider it unconfirmed until I see it with my own eyes.
Some things my eyes do not want to see.
Anyway what was the 'cease & desist' supposedly for?
No one knows - the rumour has been around for a couple of weeks now.
Might explain the sudden drop in performance…
I don't think there been one. The rest of the teams are just catching up. Reb Bull have themselves admitted that there's les 'development headroom' in their car than everyone else has got. There's now McLaren (who've most likely have the best overall car) The Mercedes - in its favoured conditions just about on par, and Ferrari - barring some duff upgrade dead ends has the speed if it can get its tyres to work.
….. to go around the corner.
Obviously, but equally obviously there was a car in the way.
Equally though Verstappen didn't have track position (wasn't far enough ahead at the apex) and as he locked both front tyres from way back was only ever going in a straight line and wasn't ever going to get 'round the corner regardless of whether Hamilton was there or not.
I think had they appealed the stewards decision , Mercedes could've expected to make a strong case, as it was, Hamilton retained 3rd and RB suffered their own penalty by dropping two positions., there's no point
A desperate out of control dive bomb into a corner, causing a collision and somehow it’s Hamiltons fault, go figure ? ?
I think the point of a penalty would be to discourage this kind of behaviour in the future. Shrugs.
I think the point would be to discourage this kind of behaviour in the future
LOL - that behaviour is wired into Max's DNA!!! 🙂
"A desperate out of control dive bomb into a corner, causing a collision and somehow it’s Hamiltons fault, go figure"
I'm pretty sure no-one is saying it's Hamilton's fault
I’m pretty sure no-one is saying it’s Hamilton’s fault
Helmut & Max did
somehow it’s Hamiltons fault
Fault, not really. But he could have avoided it by delaying turn-in. Penalties are applied on the basis of whoever is “predominantly to blame”, which clearly would have been Verstappen in this case. (So, yes, I’m now contradicting myself: there’s no realistic way Hamilton would have been penalised—but at the time I raised an eyebrow when Hamilton claimed on the radio “I didn’t move the steering”—or words to that effect—when he clearly did so as Verstappen was alongside, and was surprised he risked breaking the suspension when he was in contention for a podium finish.)
The partisan part of me was quite satisfied, anyway.
I’m pretty sure no-one is saying it’s Hamilton’s fault
The stewards actually did. They said that Lewis could've avoided the collision, but chose to turn in. Max was fully locked at that point, so couldn't then avoid the collision. Had Max braked earlier, Lewis wouldn't have had to avoid a collision. Racing incident as both did something that had they not done, would've avoided a collision.
Lewis wasn't taking about his steering into the corner, He was talking about moving under braking, which he didn't do. once he was slowed down, he turned into the corner. That's allowed, but had he turned just a little later, he could have avoided the collision.
Surely “I didn’t move the steering” meant “I’d already applied the ammount of steering input I needed to apply to make the corner” before Max lost control and dive bombed him?
You can see on the video (includes slow-mo) that Hamilton’s left hand rises above the bodywork while Max is alongside.
It seems like he’s trying to judge the turn-in so that he just misses the back of Max’s car as he slides past, but misjudges. I dunno. It’d be a bit daft to deliberately collide given the risk of losing his front right suspension. But whatever the intention, it’s clearly not just one steering input for the corner. Which is why at the time I raised an eyebrow at “I didn’t move the steering”.