Was in Dorking Waitrose today and there was a bunch of people asking for contributions to a Dorking food bank. Of course I contributed.
But hang on, Surrey is the wealthiest county in the worlds 4th biggest economy.
As Paxman said in his Cameron intrerview, 5 years of tory rule and and that's the legacy - food banks and zero hours contracts! In Surrey!
What a disgrace.
It can only get worse.
Meanwhile, there's the usual procession of premium brand motors carrying premium brand bikes up to Leith Hill.
Are they not just for lazy good for nothing dole scroungers?
watch Cameron squirm, not much but he does.
How very dare the wealthy donate things which might be needed by others.
There was a nice bottle of rosé fizz in the collection box in Waitrose in Salisbury the other day. Raised a wry chuckle.
Is this another politics thread in disguise?
Wish it was all about scroungers and those who don't want to work. Sadly though it's people - and kids - in real need. Too easy to condem with the cliched daily mail nostrums...
Call it a politics thread in disguise if you want. I'm just trying to understand the fractured society we live in today.
Some people are less clever, they are usually poor ones.
I bet the people using food banks still have TV, phone and internet though.
Yeah that's what 5 years of the tories has got you, still least they weren't voted back in.
Some people are less clever, they are usually poor ones.
😯
I bet the people using food banks still have TV, phone and internet though.
**** me!
Ordinary Hard Working Families (sic), born and bred here, just can't afford to live in Surrey anymore. Anything under £500k is snapped up by Buy to Let monkeys, and that will maybe get a 2-3 bed mid terrace or flat.
name me a time in history where everyone was equal, no one went hungry etc.
In my opinion, the simple fact is that food banks have grown not only in numbers but also popularity. Get your self referred because you are in the following categories:
•Wage freezes and low incomes in general, making it hard to cope with the rising cost of living
•Work hours being cut
•Unexpected costs - such as an unexpectedly high bill
•Losing their job
•Losing benefits, or benefits being paid late
•Being unable to work due to sickness, disability or mental illness
•Divorce
•Debt problems.
So what did everyone do before food banks?
**** me!
*Hovering over the report post button for swear filter avoidance* 😉
Otherwise....I agree. A disturbingly simple minded view of things.
Also, as Drac points out, if only there was some way for the people to exercise some sort of democratic right to vote to avoid the clearly inevitable armageddon. I'm pretty sure there was a plague of rats in Epsom recently. It's a sign! A SIGN! etc.
*Hovering over the report post button for swear filter avoidance*
You may have noticed I didn't avoid it. 😀
You may have noticed I didn't avoid it.
Well * me sideways with a wet haddock! You're ing right. Etc. 😉
If you really do struggle as said above ditch the tv phone car and internet.I spent several years on income support and survived without any of these luxuries.
Shows that people can fall on hard times anywhere in the UK. I know people that have struggled ever since last years floods.
My paper shop is opposite the food bank/drugs advisory(volunteers)place. Some of their "clients" pick up their food parcels and promptly try and exchange stuff for cash(presumably for the next fix or beer)
However that food bank which started out supporting drug users/needle exchange etc is now under threat from a "franchise" business which has stated its intention to open a branch in town, seems there is money to be made!!!!!!
Both my kids have gone through tough times recently, luckily we can still afford to support them and the kids. They both work as does their partners but occasionally they get caught out......
How very dare the wealthy donate things which might be needed by others.
At their behest. Philanthropy they would call it. Dickensian in reality.
Surrey has no unemployment problem. I buy my rolls in the bakers every morning and they have a sign in the window for staff wanted. Ditto the fish and chip shop and quite often vans that i'm stuck behind in traffic. Some people are just hopeless cases and running around after them, trying to carry them through life does them no favours. I'm sure if they started to suffer a bit, then the self preservation instinct would kick in.
Katie Hopkins.
Mobiles and internet aren't a luxury when you're trying to find a job - they're pretty much essential...
Thing is, we're only 7 years into a lost generation, we're nowhere near out of the woods yet and next five years likely to be worse rather than better.
Tories cut back on the cuts in the last parliament, failed to eliminate the deficit as promised, pumped £billions into the economy as QE, have kept interest rates at emergency low rates and pumped house prices to maintain the illusion of wealth... OBR forecast personal debt to soar over next few years.
Tories are supposed to be strong on the economy too...
China's slowing up fast, Euro area still a mess (Greece on the way out?), US and UK economies still not showing strong growth.
It'll do us good in the long run, getting off this addiction to debt and shiny things but I don't think the next decade's going to be a huge amount of fun whilst we adjust... I would expect more food banks not fewer...
Some people are less clever, they are usually poor ones.
Bellend
I can't see how they make money, or are set up to do so. The one in the town I work is run solely by volunteers and relies on donations. In addition, someone getting access to a food parcel is via a voucher from either a social worker, gp etc. If a client needs food on three separate occasions the food bank contact the professional involved to discuss the underlying reasons why although they will never refuse food.
Mobiles and internet aren't a luxury when you're trying to find a job - they're pretty much essential...
Agreed in full.
Dickensian in reality.
Really?
Sometimes, there's a worrying lack of humanity on this forum. But for the grace of ... go I.
How very dare the wealthy donate things which might be needed by others.
Didn't that used to be called taxes?
I think I calculated that it requires £24k or £26k income while living/working in London renting without starvation ...
Doesn't help ease the property price there when foreign investors do buy to let in addition to own local by to let.
Why the **** would anyone want to live in Surrey?
Didn't that used to be called taxes?
Well, it still is.
Tax on their salary, which gave them the money to pay tax on the car they bought (assuming they're driving to Waitrose), tax on the fuel in said car, tax on the items purchased that they then chose to give to someone more in need than them.
It's far from perfect that people are using food banks, but it's heartening to see that people choose to donate to them.
I think I calculated that it requires £24k or £26k income while living/working in London renting without starvation
Don't live in London then. I've got a perfectly good job but I could not afford to, so I don't.
I'm not saying it's a perfect solution for all but it is for some.
[i]Why the **** would anyone want to live in Surrey?[/i]
Err for the MTB'ing!!
Have you never been to the Surrey Hills and North Downs? Used to live in SW London but was down in the Surrey Hills every weekend riding so decided to move here.
while the foodbanks are open to misuse by some people they are a lifeline to most people who use them.
Weeksy i dont know who you are but you really are a ****
Some people are less clever, they are usually poor ones.
It would seem reasonable to assume that if poorly educated you would in some cases earn less as some jobs pay less .Factory floor and shop jobs etc which require less skill or qualifications .
I've been there seen it a million times, brought up in tough parts of Liverpool until I was 26.
Time and time again watching the people who 'need' assistance it still smoke 10-20 a day, go out on a Friday, but cry poverty and are hard done by. Yeah right.
Of course, there are exceptions, but few and far between.
I could lose my job, sure, why not, but would I sit and cry about it, or work 2 jobs, delivering pizza and stacking shelves to keep my family supported.
I struggle with the whole problem having seen far too many spongers. The actual people who deserve help are in the minority.
Some people are less clever, they are usually poor ones.I bet the people using food banks still have TV, phone and internet though.
are you poor?
If not, what's your excuse?
🙄
Just because you disagree, don't be getting all stroppy and insulting. By getting the insults out who do you think is showing their intelligence..
Prove me wrong if you disagree, explain to me about a couple of people you know who fell on hard times and the consequences etc
I can think of far better places to go MTBing, such as large parts of Scotland. Great access rights too. 😀Err for the MTB'ing!!Have you never been to the Surrey Hills and North Downs? Used to live in SW London but was down in the Surrey Hills every weekend riding so decided to move here.
I think people who turn up at food banks should be forced to hand over their TVs.
No need to brag about how much better Scotland is wanmankylung. You are in danger of sounding jingoistic. I find Surrey a bit overcrowded so not my cup of tea, but does have access to some decent biking for the area, easy access to London, which (shock horror) some people actually like. Also Surrey has some decent vineyards. Why not prove your point by posting a montage of the Highlands with Runrig playing in the background? 🙂
I think people who turn up at food banks should be forced to hand over their TVs.
Would their TV's be crushed infront of them or given to someone more in need of a TV? A TV bank so to speak.
or work 2 jobs, delivering pizza and stacking shelves to keep my family supported.
Do you have A levels or a tertiary education? Last job in a profession or supervisory level? Good luck with that. Those employers want supine, un-thinking, unlikely to sod off to a better paid job workers.
Disclosure unemployed for 18 months in 2009/10 and I applied for all those. (Contributions JSA for 6 months of that then NI stamp paid only).
Also mobile needed for the employer to tell you if he wants you today for that zero hours contract. Internet required to search and apply for jobs and you need to provide evidence to Job Centre plus of all this.
You come across as smug, insulated middle class without a clue as to the pressures at the bottom of society in 2015. (It's probably much worse than when I was unemployed due to the sanctions regime now in place).
Would their TV's be crushed infront of them or given to someone more in need of a TV?
I'm not bothered just as long as they don't have a TV.
I'm not bothered just as long as they don't have a TV.
I disagree. Why just a TV. Would you check to see the if they had a car? What clothes are they wearing? Have they paid their electricity bill first? Should anyone that uses a foodbank be stripped of any sense of enjoyment or sense of worth in life prior to turning up at the door? I don't mind giving to a foodbank, and don't expect the recipient to have become a Ludite prior to eating a donated tin of beans.
OK I would want their mobiles too. Also frisked for any tobacco.
And any vague look of cheerfulness on their faces.............straight to the back of the queue.
Genuinely 😀
I now have visions in my mind of a stoic queue of people, patiently waiting in line for a Frey Bentos steak pie, trying to hold their heads high with pride, as beads of sweat drop from their chin whilst trying to hold onto a 42 inch plasma tele.
Thread like this reveals quite a lot about people...
I am not ashamed to admit I have used a food bank before, I did it because I would have had no other way to feed my family at the time (I did have a job) thankfully I am in a slightly better situation now but I fully appreciate the help that I got at the time.
I am not ashamed to admit I have used a food bank before
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Well said wiggles. If I was growing up now my mum may have been someone reliant on a foodbank to support my brother and myself. I don't think that stripping someone of any shred of dignity first should be a prerequisite to using a foodbank.
Benefits can bring people down to nothing very quickly. A guy I work with (who does an excellent job) is still bitter about being sanctioned when on benefits for refusing to go for a job that cost so much in travel that taking it would put him in debt. If people like him are sanctioned the system is set up to screw people over rather than support them into work. He wasn't out of work long but there weren't many jobs around - we're up in Yorkshire and I remain to be convinced that the economy is growing.
As a fund raiser for the Surrey Care Trust (google is your friend) even during the labour boom (sic) and having a wife who has worked at a Guildford food bank for many years, I must say that there is some staggeringly misinformed BS on display here. Surprising from some if not others. But talking BS is easy, much better to actually do something about it. Sorry mini rant on late train home, but subject close to our hearts.
Plenty of ways to contribute
http://www.surreycaretrust.co.uk/wp/
Oh and the MTB is really rather good here too.
Well said wiggles. If I was growing up now my mum may have been someone reliant on a foodbank to support my brother and myself. I don't think that stripping someone of any shred of dignity first should be a prerequisite to using a foodbank.
Exactly, obviously in a perfect world food banks wouldn't need to exist, but the world we live in is far from perfect...
Too many selfish people who just think about what is best for them and not what happens to others, I don't wish I paid less tax, in fact I would happily pay more if I trusted to government to actually help people who need foodbanks rather than bailing out banks...
The goverment/mainstream press (same thing really) make it so easy for people to think that we have such a problem with people taking all our hard earned tax payers money and these people should be demonised for getting £60 a week to live on so they can sneakily sell the NHS through the back door to their tax dodging mates for a "donation" to their party.
The goverment/mainstream press (same thing really) make it so easy for people to think that we have such a problem with people taking all our hard earned tax payers money ....
It's worse than that.........food banks don't rely on taxpayers they rely on Christian charities and donations from kindhearted people. Oh it makes me so ANGRY.
Yeah, essentially people get annoyed at people getting money on benefits when actually the people who get them don't even get enough to get buy without relying on charity in a lot of cases. So you could argue that foodbanks actually save tax payers money as they are an excuse for the government to give people less money, just like tax credits give companies an excuse to pay shite wages as the government will subsidise them.
Prove me wrong if you disagree, explain to me about a couple of people you know who fell on hard times and the consequences etc
Wouldn't that just be an exchange of meaningless anecdotes?
We could bring back the workhouse .Bed and board in exchange for work but also give health help and education .
Wouldn't that just be an exchange of meaningless anecdotes?
Not really. For example I'd like to read what happened to wiggle above, circumstances, situation, measures taken etc. But its a lot to give out information wise about someone on a forum.
I can only base my feelings on people I've seen playing the system for years and years.
THM, Surrey Care Trust have been on my shortlist of places to do voluntary work with. Would you mind if I picked your brain about how they work before I contact them? Cheers
weeksy - MemberI've been there seen it a million times, brought up in tough parts of Liverpool until I was 26.
weeksy - MemberI can only base my feelings on people I've seen playing the system for years and years.
Food banks have been an issue in "tough parts of Liverpool" for years and years ? When did you first notice them ?
Or are you deliberately attempting to move away from the subject so you can demonise everyone who's fallen on hard times or are less fortunate than yourself ?
Reading this thread remlnds of the 80's Thatcher devided the country and the sons of Thatcher are doing it again its less extreame than the nazi's but the same basic tactic find a group or sud division of society to blame and viola!
Some interesting attitudes.
On a train in Kazakhstan a few months back I was trying to explain that in the UK wider families (non-immediate) do not often share their wealth. The local woman I was talking to was absolutely baffled by this. Seems that families in this part of the world always spread their money around - i.e. if you have a rich uncle he will support your parents, you and your siblings.
Conversely I have an uncle in the Rich List and you'd be lucky to get a tin of beans out of him if you fell on your arse.
Seems from some of the comments that there is a lack of trust. Why doesn't a scheme exist online or elsewhere (correct me if one does) whereby rich/willing & also struggling families register and 'marry up' i.e. help each other out directly? If I had a few quid I would happily sponsor a struggling family on the basis of regular visits.
If I had a few quid I would happily sponsor a struggling family on the basis of regular visits.
🙂 what, like they do with pandas and rare tigers. For only £8 a month you could feed the Surry family and recieve a magazine with regular updates. Sign up now and received a soft cuddly " poor person" toy.
On a train in Kazakhstan a few months back I was trying to explain that in the UK wider families (non-immediate) do not often share their wealth
Does Kazakhatan have a welfare system?
Not knocking your point I just wonder if there is no other option.
For only £8 a month you could feed the Surry family and recieve a magazine with regular updates. Sign up now and received a soft cuddly " poor person" toy.
You jest but if you donate to Shelter or The Trussle Trust you get exactly that from both of them, updates on impoverished people in the UK whose lives are made just a little bit better by help from charities.
Kazakhstan is a caring sharing society
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Reading this thread remlnds of the 80's Thatcher devided the country and the sons of Thatcher are doing it again its less extreame than the nazi's but the same basic tactic find a group or sud division of society to blame and viola!
Bit early for the hard stuff.......... 🙄
You jest but if you donate to Shelter or The Trussle Trust you get exactly that from both of them
I give to Shelter already but beyond a generic newsletter with the odd 'case study' I have no idea who the funds go to.
For only £8 a month you could feed the Surry family and recieve a magazine with regular updates.
See above.
Does Kazakhatan have a welfare system?
Not a very good one. Income tax is flat at 10%. VAT is 12%. This plus a history of famines has probably helped people take wealth redistribution into their own hands. I was pretty inspired by it anyway.
I give to Shelter already but beyond a generic newsletter with the odd 'case study' I have no idea who the funds go to.
Annual accounts [url= http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/924416/2013-14_Shelter_Annual_Report_and_Accounts.pdf ]here[/url].
Poor people should only eat spaghetti and soup
Poor people should only eat spaghetti and soup
Quite shocking. I give it 2 years and IDS will be doing the same here, just after he insists all people on benefits can only go out in public with shaved heads wearing sack cloths as clothes.
spacemonkey - Member
THM, Surrey Care Trust have been on my shortlist of places to do voluntary work with. Would you mind if I picked your brain about how they work before I contact them? Cheers
I only really "know" ? the fund raising side of things and even then my main contact has recently moved in. So I can't really help on the "how they work bit" - other than everyone I met was charming and dedicated and like most funds short of shreddies.
I must admit that first fund raising started as a challenged because people don't naturally associate Surrey with hardship. But that is far from the case.
Not a very good one. Income tax is flat at 10%. VAT is 12%. This plus a history of famines has probably helped people take wealth redistribution into their own hands. I was pretty inspired by it anyway.
I can certainly think of one family in Kazakhstan that's taken the initiative in redistributing wealth around their family:
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/71431
http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2013/07/201371774242221773.htm
On a train in Kazakhstan a few months back I was trying to explain that in the UK wider families (non-immediate) do not often share their wealth. The local woman I was talking to was absolutely baffled by this. Seems that families in this part of the world always spread their money around - i.e. if you have a rich uncle he will support your parents, you and your siblings.Conversely I have an uncle in the Rich List and you'd be lucky to get a tin of beans out of him if you fell on your arse.
Seems from some of the comments that there is a lack of trust. Why doesn't a scheme exist online or elsewhere (correct me if one does) whereby rich/willing & also struggling families register and 'marry up' i.e. help each other out directly? If I had a few quid I would happily sponsor a struggling family on the basis of regular visits.
Nice idea....trouble is in the UK wealth is seen as 'bad' and you will be taxed on any gifts you try to make to relatives, taxed on capital gains, taxed on your death with inheritance etc etc....is it any wonder people cling on to every last penny and look for ways out of giving it to the government?!
For a more generous society we'd have to change our attitude to wealth....that isnt going to happen any time soon as the general gist from outspoken STW posters seems to be that more tax is good...and all this does is encourage people to hold onto their money.
I can certainly think of one family in Kazakhstan that's taken the initiative in redistributing wealth around their family
And with help from our very own champion of democracy and social justice and hero of the Labour Party hard-right :
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/24/tony-blair-advice-kazakh-president-protesters ]Tony Blair advises Kazakh president on publicity after killing of protesters[/url]
[i][b]"Tony Blair's role advising countries with poor human rights records has come under scrutiny again after he gave Kazakhstan's president advice on how to avoid his image being tarnished by the killing of 15 civilian protesters by police".[/i][/b]
Although to be fair to Tony Blair he doesn't necessarily support Kazakhstan's despot family, the unrepentant self-serving war criminal is only helping them because it gives him the opportunity to increase his own huge personal wealth :
[b][i]"The former Labour leader's consultancy, Tony Blair Associates, set up in the capital, Astana, in October 2011, signing a multi- million pound deal to advise Kazakhstan's leadership on good governance, just months after Nazarbeyev was controversially re-elected with 96% of the vote and weeks before the massacre".[/i][/b]
It's far from perfect that people are using food banks...
You're a politician aren't you?
Reading this thread remlnds of the 80's Thatcher devided the country and the sons of Thatcher are doing it again its less extreame than the nazi's but the same basic tactic find a group or sud division of society to blame and viola!
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deviant - MemberFor a more generous society we'd have to change our attitude to wealth....that isnt going to happen any time soon as the general gist from outspoken STW posters seems to be that more tax is good...and all this does is encourage people to hold onto their money.
I see, people like Tony Blair "hold onto their money" because of UK tax laws which need to be changed. Less taxation of wealthy people and they will suddenly become generous.
Well Tony Blair seems to be able to somehow struggle alright under the present conditions :
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/11328929/Tony-Blair-cuts-his-tax-bill-despite-another-bumper-year.html ]Tony Blair cuts his tax bill despite another bumper year[/url]
Did it take a special effort to post nonsense like that deviant or did you just tap out the first thing that came into your head ?
Blair in Astana signing big contracts with corrupt regimes on the back of his international fame.
I guess Lance Armstrong beat him to that by two years.
I see, people like Tony Blair "hold onto their money" because of UK tax laws which need to be changed. Less taxation of wealthy people and they will suddenly become generous.Did it take a special effort to post nonsense like that deviant or did you just tap out the first thing that came into your head ?
The problem with trying to debate ideas with some people on STW is that they cant accept another point of view, they just cant comprehend any other view than their own....it seems to be an impossibility for them...and then the stroppy replies start.
When talking about lower tax, less punitive taxes, abolishing inheritance tax etc some on here cant help themselves but jump to conclusions about 'the rich'....any talk of relaxing tax laws seems to be immediately reduced to 6th form nonsense about giving tax breaks to millionaires....while some laws in that direction would benefit the top wealthy few it would also (IMO) create a shift in societal attitudes to money.
Case in point is my parents, my friends parents, most older people coming up to retirement i work with etc etc....these people arent rich, i'm from a family who have traditionally worked in the forces or medical backgrounds and who have been paid average wages all their lives. Most have gone on to put some savings away and own their homes....and all are making plans to avoid inheritance tax.
Why?....the easy option is to start slinging mud and label them all selfish (as i'm sure some of the keyboard warriors on here will do!)....or you could actually look for the reason or reasons that make ordinary working people seek financial advice on how to avoid tax....the uncomfortable answers you'll get however wont please some on STW so its much easier to blame 'the rich' for everything....almost everyone i've just spoken about feels they are over taxed for their average earnings and all without question feel that after spending 30yrs+ trying to clear a mortgage that it is a kick in the teeth to have the government help themselves to it in the event of their death.
Change the attitude that exists among working class people (not just the Blairs or 'the rich'!) and you'll get a fairer society where people are more open to charity, generosity, community projects....dare i say it but people might even be open to higher taxation for genuinely high earners...a senior Nurse or experienced Police Constable falling into the 40% tax bracket are not high earners....this is where the resentment comes from!
All my opinion of course, no stats to back it up...just the chatter that has been going on around my colleagues, my friends, my family etc in the lead up to the election....we're a very ordinary bunch which is why its so funny watching people work themselves into a lather about the election result and refusing to take the blinkers off....class war stopped years ago, the nasty men in top hats living on country estates make up a miniscule proportion of the country....when the general attitude from working age people who earn (on average) 20-40k is more aligned with the the model of small government and low taxation then you'd have to be daft to ignore this or very immature to reduce these arguments to being about 'the rich' all the time....sure some very wealthy people would benefit from a lower tax model but so would many many more working class people....and thats where your change in societal attitudes to money would come from in my opinion.
I've not come across estates of ordinary working class people (who ever they are)worth more than £650,000.00. I don't have a problem with IHT at all. With limited exception, for which their are reliefs and exemptions, it only catches those who I would perceive as rich.
I've not come across estates of ordinary working class people (who ever they are)worth more than £650,000.00.
You'd be hard not to be worth that much if you own a house in the SE.
Inheritance tax threshold is £325,000, loads of people in the South East fall foul of that despite never having been a 'high earner' at any point in their lives.
https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/overview
My little 'two up-two down' terrace in the South East went for £220,000....you could blame the bonkers property market (and you'd be right) but it doesnt detract from the fact that working class people on ordinary salaries feel over taxed and are actively looking for ways around it.
Therefore when someone on here talks about paying more tax it leaves a huge chunk of people cold....contrary to popular STW musings its not just 'the rich' that vote Tory, loads of people like me vote Tory because (one of) the alternative options banded around on here is one of more tax for everyone....no thanks.
£650,000 when aggregated between husband and wife.