[Closed] Flooding

Uncomfortable truth is that some places will flood, occasionally.

We've been fooled by the Canute delusion into thinking that defences can prevent that - they can't, they can reduce how often it happens, however there will always be freak events that show us who is in charge

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Of course, the idea of houses in risk zones being designed with flood resistance, and not building on flood plains, is far too much like commo. Sense - I'm reminded about that woman who was on telly a couple of years back complaining her expensive hardwood kitchen floor had been ruined, just after being repaired from the previous flood...

I don't see why we can't build on flood plains, the problem is the traditional style house that we demand. With a little thought anything is possible.
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Of course, a more sensible solution would be to redevelop existing buildings.

Its not just flood plains being built on, apparently the land (6500 hectares) above hebden bridge has been drained for grouse moors, helping to cause the flooding whilst reading government subsidies for the landowner

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land

appears the main bridge in Tadcaster has now patially collapsed

the Canute delusion

The reverse is true, Canute tried to stop the tide to demonstrate that he couldn't actually do that to the early church and thus demonstrating the supreme power of God

The delusion is due to Norman PR post conquest

The wind is picking up in s-w scotland at the moment and with the forecast for 100mm of rain i imagine they'll be a fair amount of trees blown over throughout scotland and cumbria as their root systems will be waterlogged and unable to hold fast in the ground - I was out in my local woods earlier where i have built trails over the past 20+ years and the entire forest floor was moving around when the gusts were particularly strong.

It seems to me that this is now what our winters are going to be like. Wet westerly after wet westerly. What's needed is a restructuring on such a huge scale that it is likely to be beyond the grasp of our short-termist culture, political and civil...

Tadcaster bridges - does anyone know if the old railway viaduct is intact? My cycle commute (York to Castleford) normally goes across that bridge that just fell down. Not the biggest problem, minuscule compared to other people's, but if anyone has any information it would be appreciated.

y cycle commute (York to Castleford) normally goes across that bridge that just fell down

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So much work still to be done in Hebden. Spent the day taking apart a shop - floor, walls, floor supports - everything. Pretty sobering. But I did get to hit a lot of things with a sledgehammer...which was nice.

Main street looks like it's in one piece if you ignore the empty shops. But then you go on the back streets...things are really not good. EPA are reminding people that it's all contaminated, it's not nice, not even close to it.

[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1598/23754915770_a322e9372c_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1598/23754915770_a322e9372c_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Cc99Rh ]IMGP0900[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/13995637@N08/ ]Greg.May[/url], on Flickr

I went riding in the South Lakes today, worst I've ever seen it. Bridges in pieces, massive craters ripped out of the roads, gravel over everything, debris 4+ metres above the waterline around all the lakes, fields still under water. I've seen plenty of flooding and mel****er up there over the years but this was on another level altogether and that was a week after the last major rainfall there. God knows what will hit it tonight with the next storm. 🙁

I like that Tadcaster bridge although given the number of floods that have hit it in the last 10 years I'm not surprised it's given up the unequal struggle.

Those will be our electricity cables then, bongohoohaa.

And kimbers, no - I just said I never ride park on the S&S thread, I don't want to have to repeat myself - or have to try a jump, I'd only hurt myself

Of course the next problem in Tadcaster will be that bits of collapsed bridge will be blocking the water flow if the next flood comes soon.

big_n_daft - Member
So you don't see the loss of large swathes of deep peat moorland as an effective sponge as a top 100 contributer? Or do they parachute in the 150 t cranes that they use to build and maintain the turbines on to floating cushions?

The construction of the access roads and the culverting they need cause an accelerated loss of peat and create new watercourses . Not to mention the damage to water quality for water companies and private supplies as the peat no longer acts as the buffer during rainfall events

Actually they do use floating cushions
[url= http://www.windfarmbop.com/floating-roads-on-peat/ ]Floating Roads[/url]

I have used floating roads on a few windfarms. A geogrid membrane is placed straight onto peat with a layer of stone. Sometimes another layer of geogrid and more stone. The vegetation is not broken and retains its structure. Because the roads sits on top of peat no culverts or ditches are required.

Turbines are often micro-sited to areas where peat layer is thinner. Peat is an earthworks contractors worst nightmare and all attempts are taken where possible to leave it undisturbed.

Even where peat is excavated, it is nearly always placed adjacent to the road or turbine base or hardstand where it came from. I have never worked on a wind farm where any peat has been removed from the site.

Opencast coal extraction has a far bigger effect on water levels and potential flooding. I know great swathes of East Lothian and the East coast mainline that are kept dry by borehole pumps following coal extraction.

I think the argument to prevent wind farm construction on a generalisation that they may cause flooding is a weak one. Looking at the bigger picture they will do more good than harm to the environment. I bet new retail developments, housing, loss of parkland, monob-locking gardens, agriculture, use of cars and poor town planning massively outdo any adverse flooding effects from windfarms. Flood event, better blame Tesco.

"[b]wondering why there are lots of photos and comments in the media about what the Police and Army are doing to help, but nothing of the fire crews[/b]."

Reasons for keeping good publicity [and minimising public sympathy] about the fire service out of the news:

"[i][b]South and West Yorkshire Fire Services[/b] have [b]cut about £20m from their combined budgets since 2011[/b][/i]."

"[i]Fire services in South and West Yorkshire could be merged in a bid to save money.[[b]make even more financial cuts[/b]][/i]"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34812427

[b]The government are proposing merging ALL fire services with the police to try to justify even more budgetary cuts[/b]

"[i]Theresa May risks “turning the clock back 140 years” with discredited plans for police and crime commissioners (PCCs) to take over fire authorities...[/i]"

"[i]these proposals threaten to damage the well-earned trust of the public in firefighters, hamper innovation and will lead to the fragmentation of emergency services delivery across the UK[/i]"

Any centre or right wing news delivery will have made sure public sympathy for the dedication and bravery of the fire service is kept to the absolute minimum.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/19/fire-brigades-union-voices-anger-at-plans-to-hand-oversight-to-pccs

oldschool - Member
This has been up the road from me.
big copter

Is that bringing the EA chairman back from Barbados?

😉

Actually they do use floating cushions

I'll happily take you up Scout Moor where you can show me it in action

or the new windfarm above Whitworth

or take me through the Scout Moor expansion plans or any of the other 10+ windfarms I can see locally and you can show me this utopian care for the landscape

I'll show you badly eroding peat, new water channels, and private water supplies which are now undrinkable and the Irwell and Roch catchments

Shirley farming/grazing and grouse moors etc is a much bigger contributor to soil errosion

Any centre or right wing news delivery will have made sure public sympathy for the dedication and bravery of the fire service is kept to the absolute minimum.

Not an argument for this thread

Dunno does seem odd that there's been so little mention of fire service

Is that bringing the EA chairman back from Barbados?

Nah. Just their personal chef and masseuse.

Start another thread, there is a valid point to be had. Just not here

big_n_daft - Member
I'll happily take you up Scout Moor where you can show me it in action

or the new windfarm above Whitworth

or take me through the Scout Moor expansion plans or any of the other 10+ windfarms I can see locally and you can show me this utopian care for the landscape

I'll show you badly eroding peat, new water channels, and private water supplies which are now undrinkable and the Irwell and Roch catchments

I never said it was utopian care for the landscape.What I have seen happen makes financial sense. Sounds like you have a poor contractor there. I don't know what has caused the problems locally, however I steered away from commenting on drinking water, which is a local issue and not related to flooding.

Sticking to flooding, I live in the Borders in a town succeptible to flooding, and downstream of wind farms. Anyone living in Scotland's central belt, will live downstream of 000's of wind turbines. I think there are now 1000 turbines in the Borders, which is effectively the catchment of the river Tweed.

I have been involved in windfarm projects across the UK, and no-one has to live with them anywhere to the extent of those across Scotlands central belt and Southern uplands.

What I have seen happen makes financial sense. Sounds like you have a poor contractor there.

I don't know what has caused the problems locally, however I steered away from commenting on drinking water

and it's Scottish company screwing it up in Whitworth, families over a year without potable water with the council/ developer/ contractor all in it together to fob them off and take advantage. The water now flashes of the hill rather than taking the time it used to but obviously no impact on flows into the Roch

What do the EPA have to say?

I'd avoid Kirroughtree and Mabie today....Dumfries & Galloway looks doomed

I commute over the bridge that robdob posted a video to. Mate of mine filmed this one

Bridge looks like this now http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/calderdale/elland-bridge-will-be-closed-for-the-forseeable-future-1-7646383

Frank has arrived with his precipitation in South Manchester, lots of water coming in at about 30 degrees oof vertical

It's absolutely hauling it down up here in't'ills again now. Looks like its in for the day. Oh joy!!

And heres a pretty accurate picture in todays Guardian of what we think of Dave's brief appearance in his ****ing wellies....

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🙂

@billy thanks for video post. The bridge is being featured on French TV reports

Well, I'm sat here watching the waters rise.

I'm not used to the river being almost up to the garden! It's pretty loud and interspersed with the cracking of trees now and again. I've seen a lot of timber going downstream this am.

On the banks of the Dee, Aberdeenhire.

gies a shout if it keeps coming and you need a hand to move owt metalheart.

Looks pretty bad alround here

was out this morning dragging trees back to the ranch to clear the road for the neighbours. will get them chopped later.

ballater, aboyne , and peter/maryculter all in pretty bad shape.

Cheers TR.

I was speaking to the ghillie (and the laird) apparently I should be alright. Got a bit of elevation but the fishing hut the elevated to miss the floods is now under water. Just looked out the window and here's a chuffing tree stump in the middle of what was the park... Must admit I'm feeling nervous though, seen how much the rivers risen in the last couple of hours!

I saw Ballater was flooded....

Might be time to buy an Isuzu firetruck....

Well, the water has risen more, another couple of feet and I'll be trouble! It's only feet away from the neighbours door. I'm a little higher.

Word is the level is dropping up river, fingers crossed.

Fairly certain the higher levels we are seeing downstream are the tide coming in ..... Think high tide was about 4:45

Its odd , locally we are fine . None of the usual suspects are floodding , the culter or the gormack etc . Its just the dee thats giving it large.

Helicopters out at the caravan site at maryculter rescuing folk. And the miltimber bridge is shut.

Oh, it's definitely the Dee! Part of the A93 between Ballater and Braemar has washed away apparently.

I took a look outside and the water levels seem to have stabilised but difficult to tell now it's dark. Haven't heard any trees being ripped apart for a while neither. Speculation is this is higher than in living memory (apparently some 1930's level in Kinker has been exceeded...) Crathes of Milton is half under water (met the chef going home about 2.00). The laird and the factor have both been round twice.

Moved everything of value up off the floor just in case.

Must've been some deluge in the hills!

Flooding in Peebles and Innerleithen is cut off.

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Dam, nr Dalry-Galloway with floodgates fully open[/url]

Usually there's no water at all coming down the dam

I take it dams must be over flowing every where.

The road between Ballater and Braemar apparently (from Scotland From The Roadside) group on FB

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Oops 3 sfrs personnel had to be rescued when they were trapped by rising water.

Interesting read from everyone's favourite flood commentator:
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/29/deluge-farmers-flood-grouse-moor-drain-land
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That Braemar road ^^ runs right alongside the River Dee, it's the old military road (now A93). That's one hell of a diversion for anyone wanting to get between those villages, means a trek all the way round via Blairgowrie

Well, it's raining here in London. Expecting Cameron in Hunter wellies to show up any moment commiserating with those of us with damp garden furniture.