[Closed] Feminists, can they actually have a relationship that doesn't empower them?

You think that's bad, you should try customers... Just because they pay you money, they think they are owed some kind of service! Bloody cheek.

cinnamon_girl - Member
I have a permanent health condition where females make up around 90% of sufferers. Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment. Or all sufferers would receive medication on the NHS, unlike how it is now.

The NHS is inherently sexist I'm afraid.

Anything to back up that claim?

Well this thread makes perfect sense.

Femenism and feminists, youve just got to know how to control them and remind them youre superior in most things.

or perhaps not if you want a quiet life.

Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment

Whatever the gender of the expert they dont take it to well when the non medically trained patient starts to diagnose for them

It really not a gender or a doctor thing

I don't feel a need to be 'empowered' as such, but I'm not one to suffer fools gladly and anyone, male or female, will feel the sharp end of my wit should they treat me like anything other than a human being.

I've found that men, [i]generally[/i], do not like a woman who is better than them at something that is traditionally seen as a 'male' activity.

Like reaching stuff from the top shelf?

I think it's generally time women stop nagging at men to do 'male' activities and they start doing them themselves.

God I hope not. We don't want STW overrun with bitchiness.

Anything to back up that claim?

Which specific part?

Whatever the gender of the expert they dont take it to well when the non medically trained patient starts to diagnose for them

I medically diagnosed myself, the experts diagnosed, er, differently. Who was right?

The bloke.

I medically diagnosed myself, the experts diagnosed, er, differently. Who was right?

Internet diagnosis? Like internet opinions and internet mechanics they're 10 a penny and to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I know how your doctors feel when you tell them they're wrong, put it that way.

I've been dealing a lot with the medical profession for a good few years now. Without exception every male doctor I've spoken with can not deal with me disagreeing with them or indeed having an opinion. This includes me proving them wrong. I've been sneered at, patronised, treated as a moaning menopausal woman and all because I refuse to be a compliant patient as they don't do their bloody job.

Men are just more curt with people that annoy them, there are lots of female doctors who really do despise certain types of patients - they're just better at putting on a smiley face with them.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Which specific part?

Well this bit:

Of course if these figures were transposed then you can bet that there would be actually be better treatment. Or all sufferers would receive medication on the NHS, unlike how it is now.

For every correct self-diagnosis I suspect there are thousands which are not. I assume this is one reason why doctors get rather jaded by a patient who apparently knows it all.

People in the medical world often seem to think they are god, and that you are a lowly peasant who couldn't possibly have any understanding of your own condition.

That wasn't the issue - it was their failure to treat me as a person, rather than dirt.

That wasn't the issue - it was their failure to treat me as a person, rather than dirt.

Have you ever considered how much death doctors see?

If more of them treated you like a person, many more would be found hanging from their ceiling light.

Doctors and surgeons dehumanize people because it allows them to do their job.

I visited Langsett Cafe a couple of months ago, but it didn't make me talk gibberish.

However, I did bump into some old friends from Marple, whose house used to be Timmy Mallett's old school.

Doctors and surgeons dehumanize people because it allows them to do their job.

Rubbish. It's most important that any medical person remembers they are dealing with people.

Have you ever considered how much death doctors see?

A). It was a radiographer not a doctor
B). Guess what? I'm not dead
C). Seeing dead people doesn't provide an excuse to dehumanise the living

How can you people keep talking about feminism when someone has shown us the sort of stems Jeremy Corbyn is riding with?!?

Holy s__t! 😯

C). Seeing dead people doesn't provide an excuse to dehumanise the living

Yes, yes it does. Dehumanizing people is what allows doctors/surgeons to carry out their jobs with a level headed coolness. If many didn't, many more would end up with PTSD....more than there are already.

A). It was a radiographer not a doctor

Pretty sure radiographers will have seen plenty of people needlessly die in their time as well.

This thread's like walking into a garden centre. I was greeted by one incomprehensible garden centre assistant and now I'm looking at all the delicate little flowers.

I really have no idea....

All of my "wut"

es, yes it does. Dehumanizing people is what allows doctors/surgeons to carry out their jobs with a level headed coolness. If many didn't, many more would end up with PTSD....more than there are alread

No, it doesn't. Being objective and clinically effective doesn't mean you have to dehumanise. If you think it does you either have a faulty definition of 'dehumanise' or a more significant issue.

My wife specialises in an area of nursing that has a terminal outcome. Eventually she sees all her patients die - without exception. Each loss hurts. Her valuing every person in her care makes her the good nurse she is - her humanisation of patients means they have a better quality of life. Death also does not have to mean trauma as meant by PTSD.

My wife specialises in an area of nursing that has a terminal outcome. Eventually she sees all her patients die - without exception. Each loss hurts. Her valuing every person in her care makes her the good nurse she is - her humanisation of patients means they have a better quality of life.

Well, then your wife is at one end of a normal distribution curve I suspect.

In one experiment, physicians who practice acupuncture (as well as matched non-physician controls) underwent functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) while watching videos of needles being inserted into another person’s hands, feet and areas around their mouth as well as videos of the same areas being touched by a cotton bud. Compared to controls, the physicians showed significantly less response in brain regions involved in empathy for pain. In addition, the physicians showed significantly greater activation of areas involved in executive control, self-regulation and thinking about the mental states of others. The physicians appeared to show less empathy and more of a higher-level cognitive response.

This finding raised a further question. Perceiving pain in others typically involves two steps. First people engage in the emotional sharing of pain with another person, and then they make a cognitive appraisal of the emotion. Do physicians automatically feel empathy for the pain of others, but then quickly suppress it? Or is the cognitive suppression of empathy even deeper; has it become more automatic? Is it possible that the physicians no longer even experience the first step of empathy for pain that regular people show on their brain scans?

and

Whether during a surgery, biopsy, physical exam, or even a simple blood draw, healthcare professionals routinely must inflict pain on others to make them better in the long run. Physicians also need to have daily communication with patients who are physically injured, bleeding or otherwise suffering. Being too focused on the patient’s pain can make the doctor less effective. Suppressing the response to others’ pain may in fact free up information processing resources to more effectively solve clinical problems. This argument explains the finding that physicians get less empathic as they see more patients and progress through their training. In addition, a recent study of hospital nurses found that they cope with stress on the job by dehumanizing patients, which presumably makes them more effective at their jobs.

The only problem with that is: acupuncture needles generally don't hurt, so it is not surprising that people who use them don't associate them with pain.

You do realise that inflicting pain on people to heal them doesn't mean you have to dehumanise them. That's not what dehumanising means.

I think you will find that recognising the humanity of people isn't that rare. Why would you have a vocation to heal if you don't see people as people...? Seems pointless.

Except the controls associated it with pain, didn't they.

Death also does not have to mean trauma as meant by PTSD.

It doesn't have to, but it sometimes does.

You do realise that inflicting pain on people to heal them doesn't mean you have to dehumanise them. That's not what dehumanising means.

I see you failed to read all of it.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jasp.12267/abstract

So apparently the journal of applied psychology doesn't know what "dehumanizing" means.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I've not got a problem with either men or doctors!

I see you failed to read all of it.

Yes, I did fail. You see right.

Don't have access to read the full article. However, I have read articles in nursing journals which seem to indicate otherwise.

Very easy to argue the opposite. Pain and failure can drive a person to be better, to work harder to care for a patient, to save their life.

I know that is true in my case anyway.

As for the feminist bit, meh. Bellthronks exist in both genders. I'll be honest when I was a young squaddie I was a mysoginistic piece of shit, women were worthless in my eyes. I just didn't know it and was happy in the ignorance of belief.

Then my ephinany happened in the form of a work related mental breakdown. Queue, a long period of intervention, which allowed me to undo, shall we say, some of the programming from my much younger years.

My outlook and attitude these days is very different.

OP, did you ever write for Dirt Magazine?

How can you people keep talking about feminism when someone has shown us the sort of stems Jeremy Corbyn is riding with?!?

6" riser stem and drop bars ??? WTF

I don't feel a need to be 'empowered' as such, but I'm not one to suffer fools gladly and anyone, male or female, will feel the sharp end of my wit should they treat me like anything other than a human being.

I've found that men, [i]generally[/i], do not like a woman who is better than them at something that is traditionally seen as a 'male' activity.

So, and this is addressed to the OP - are all women now split into two groups - feminists/not feminists ?

I was getting bored with the whole Madonna/whore thing, so I guess that has shaken the 21st century up a bit.

I'd give up the vote if it meant I could be a housewife and not have to do a man's job for a living

I've found that men, generally, do not like a woman who is better than them at something that is traditionally seen as a 'male' activity.

As a man, I love women that are better than me (or at a similar level to me) at a "male" activity. But I may well be the exception rather than the rule.

I have great difficulty bringing up my daughter in a non-sexist way due to the massive amount of sparkly pinkness that gets lobbed her way by wider society and, more importantly, the lack of "male" toys and things she is given.

(Still, minor win, last week I convinced her that her toy princesses needed to check the fluids on the toy car before they went driving about in it. Super proud she played along, even though they got imaginary oil on their dresses and had to put them in the wash)

I medically diagnosed myself, the experts diagnosed, er, differently. Who was right?

In this example I have no idea but statistically speaking the person with the 7 years medical training and decades worth of specialism in the actual medical area will outperform a patient with access to google.

Based on this thread you're wrong in two situations:
1. The patient is male and the doctor is female (wimminz know nothing)
2. The patient is female and the doctor is male (all men are sexists who don't listen to women)

I think we should encourage self treatment and the wide scale shunning of the medical profession. It will free up medical resources for the less gullible and weed out morons from the gene pool.

As for Jeremy Corben's stem - what was he thinking?

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