it interesting that Masi may have a hand in two world championships. Surely he cant be the sole person rewriting the rules.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63192820
They asked the Pirelli guy about that. He said it wouldn’t work in conditions like today, they displace 80 litres of water per second per wheel, so nobody would be able to see anything
Erm....
Just watching the C4 highlights and the red flag at the start. They haven’t said exactly what it was result in throwing the red flag - was it for conditions even though all teams had started on inters? That’s bonkers if so
It was red flagged I thought because of Sainz crash and the difficulty retrieving the car that led to a tractor been on the track trying to get it.
Red flagged due to conditions worsening while they were clearing Sainz away. Then they were about to restart but red flagged again as the teams had pretty much finished putting all their gear away. Then they messed around for an hour and a half until we got some actual racing. Was a good race once they got going. Shame MSC didn't do better given his attempt at holding off.
rewriting the rules
I'm absolutely convinced that something has been arranged to appease Karen Horner. Tomorrow will be the proof of that for me at least.
But then again, I can't decide whether to believe in conspiracy's or not 😉
My guess is that they delayed the cost cap report to allow Honda a weekend to celebrate victory at their home race. It sounds like the Honda board are still split on whether they want to continue with F1, so this is a gift to the pro-F1 faction within Honda.
I'm not that fussed about the points thing, Max was inevitably going to win, but they do need to clarify things, they look pretty silly. The tractor on the circuit was just appalling, that's down to the local officials lacking common sense.
https://twitter.com/natesaundersF1/status/1579075673435799552
Well done Max. Been utterly imperious all season.
Now that Max has a legit WDC, perhaps that will pave the way for RB to be booted out of last years championship for the Budget Cap issue. Very much doubt it though.
I thought Gasly's post and the online reaction on reddit, twitter etc after the race was a bit much to be honest.
There was a tractor on the track and it should not have been in those conditions. I fully agree.
But, it could equally have been marshals or just an injured/trapped driver. It was double waved yellows, Gasly knew there was an incident there because he saw it and in fact hit debris from it the previous lap, so why the eff did he hoof it straight past? Then he goes on to do 250km/h under the red flags straight after.
Double waved yellows means (from the regs):
Double waved: Reduce your speed significantly, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track. During free practice and qualifying, it must be evident that a driver has not attempted to set a meaningful lap time; this means the driver should abandon the lap (this does not mean he has to pit as the track could well be clear the following lap).
There was no way that Gasly could have stopped quickly at the speed he was going in those conditions. He knows somebody has just aquaplaned off, he knows visibility is poor. Yet he was so fast that as soon as he saw the tractor, he was right on it. Far, far too fast.
Yes, the tractor should not have been there, yes, the FIA should be enforcing penalties against stupid driving under double waved yellows with strict and severe punishments, but it is also the drivers responsibility.
They asked the Pirelli guy about that. He said it wouldn’t work in conditions like today, they displace 80 litres of water per second per wheel, so nobody would be able to see anything
Erm….
I think what they were getting at was couldn't we have a wet 'monsoon' tyre that was more attractive to race with, rather than the current design? The answer was you could have whatever you wanted, but visibility is the issue rather than grip/tyre performance.
Had to watch C4 highlights yesterday (after cancelling NOW) - my, they can't half pad out 2 hours worth of TV and show very little of the race! 🙂
Glad I recorded it so I could fast forward.
Even without the contractual details which (IIRC) stipulate a maximum ratio of race footage to overall broadcast time, I’m not sure how they’d make a 40 minute race fill a 2 hour programme 🙂
Yes, the tractor should not have been there, yes, the FIA should be enforcing penalties against stupid driving under double waved yellows with strict and severe punishments, but it is also the drivers responsibility.
He was well under the delta for that section, and if it was double yellow it should just have been a stranded car at the side of the road.
Marshalls/equipment out on track should have been a safety car or red flag.
The tractor on track was just inexcusable.
Seems like the track/FIA have learnt nothing following Jules accident.
They asked the Pirelli guy about that. He said it wouldn’t work in conditions like today, they displace 80 litres of water per second per wheel, so nobody would be able to see anything
Vettel said that the tyre types backed them into a corner.
The monsoon tyres were the right tyres for the situation, but were just so slow that you had to risk it on the Inters to be competitive.
But, it could equally have been marshals or just an injured/trapped driver. It was double waved yellows, Gasly knew there was an incident there because he saw it and in fact hit debris from it the previous lap, so why the eff did he hoof it straight past? Then he goes on to do 250km/h under the red flags straight after.
There was some footage from the camera on the Ferarri being recovered as Gasly went past. There was a marshal there on the track, on the end of a strap guiding the front of the car as it was lifted.
Agree. Recovery shouldn't have started in those conditions, but Gasly shouldn't have been doing 200+ kph either.
Situation with tractor more dangerous than it seemed: Marshal on track - GPblog
Marshalls/equipment out on track should have been a safety car or red flag.
Or at least the white flag that they already have (yet I can’t remember ever seeing in F1)
Awaiting FIA report (still!)…
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...perhaps they employed Kwasi to check it and he's got himself a better job so is a bit busy! 🙂
Now that Max has a 2 legit WDCs
FTFY. No need to thank me.
Speaking of budget caps; it's worth remembering (I know many on here have very selective memories..) that the caps were introduced to prevent teams like Mercedes buying F1 titles.
It's quite telling that the team which used to spend the most, and who are suddenly nowhere near winning, are the ones whinging loudest about RB's possible infractions....
Well yes, but only if you're suggesting that
"We've followed the rules and it's had an effect, and they've cheated"
...is what's being said.
We'll keep feeding the troll as it's fun and he's new here (and probably a Red Bull bot!)...
Reason for Mercedes domination - Mercedes got such a massive jump on everyone at the start of the hybrid era everyone else was playing catch-up for years. Only ones who came close where Ferrari and they got busted for cheating.
And as you claim to be a keen F1 follower you'll know the biggest budget doesn't equal wins on track - just ask Toyota and BMW! 🙂
But anyway, past budgets aren't really an excuse for breaking the rules. And maybe no-one has, who knows! 🤷♂️
We’ll keep feeding the troll as he’s new here
So anyone who has a different opinion to your own, is a 'troll'? How intelligent.
Reason for Mercedes domination – Mercedes got such a massive jump on everyone at the start of the hybrid era everyone else was playing catch-up for years. Only ones who came close where Ferrari and they got busted for cheating.
Mercedes were spending way in excess of other teams. In that report above, Mercedes spent nearly $40 million more than RB did in 2019. If that's the case, then that would be way more than the 'less than 5%' excess RB are possibly supposed to have overspent. What advantage would nearly $40 million extra give you? Quite a bit, I'd imagine. F1 has always been about money; it's always been about the best driver in the best car. The budget caps were designed to even things up a bit, let the best drivers shine more. This is good for the sport. If RB were over the cap last year, then they should face sanction. I've never denied this. Let's see what the reports say. Personally, RB exceeding the budget cap by a few million dollars pales into insignificance next to F1 happily taking money through the sportswashing employed by the various dodgy regimes that host the circus, but hey; if you're still desperately clinging onto the hope that your own hero will somehow emerge 'victorious', you crack on.
Like millions of others, I got very bored during the period of Mercedes dominance (as with the Ferrari/Schumacher years), and stopped following. I want to see a proper spectacle, drivers truly competing with each other, not a procession behind one team. I, like many others, returned to following F1 last year when we had the most exciting season in many years. This season has also been very entertaining. Long may that continue.
Mercedes were spending way in excess of other teams. In that report above, Mercedes spent nearly $40 million more than RB did in 2019.
That report doesn't even attempt to say how much of each team's spend would be inside or outside the budget cap as it is now defined. Does Mercedes spend include its engine programme? Are driver salaries included? You're taking a single figure and assuming the difference has all gone on performance spend, but it ain't necessarily so. That's why the budget cap accounting is quite complex, and why the FIA are taking SO long to actually share the outcome.
Mercedes were also building their own engines so allow for that in the budgeting. Red Bull have never had that expense.
And I'm an F1 fan, not a fan of one team or driver. There's only two drivers I've actively taken a dislike to over the years and they're Schumacher and Alonso who would happily knobble their teammates. Max isn't like that, he doesn't need to and I can't say I've ever heard of him demanding preferential treatment.
There’s only two drivers I’ve actively taken a dislike to over the years and they’re Schumacher and Alonso.
Have you ever met either of them? Have either done anything to slight you? Why do you 'dislike' them?
You’re taking a single figure and assuming the difference has all gone on performance spend, but it ain’t necessarily so.
What's it all been spent on then? Fancy gazebos? Lawyers? Goody bags for VIPs?
Mercedes were also building their own engines so allow for that in the budgeting. Red Bull have never had that expense.
Hmm. Mercedes would be gaining data from their various other motorsport endeavours as well as F1, so that could benefit them a lot. Point is though; F1 has always been about trying to find a winning edge. Teams and drivers have often gone outside the 'rules' to gain any advantage. That doesn't excuse it, but for example nobody says Senna wasn't great because he deliberately punted Prost off the track to win a WC, or that Schuey wasn't for doing the same to Damon Hill, etc. There's always been shenanigans. It's what makes F1 F1 ffs! Fact is that F1 is now enjoying more viewing figures globally, and that, ultimately, is really what it's all about.
https://www.sportspromedia.com/categories/broadcast-ott/media-rights/f1-global-tv-audience-2021/
Have you ever met either of them? Have either done anything to slight you? Why do you ‘dislike’ them?
It's fairly clear you dislike Lewis and Mercedes.
But it's sport innit - it wouldn't be sport without goodies/baddies/favourites - that's what the narrative of any sport is built on. It wouldn't be important to people if they didn't form opinions and it didn't matter to them.
Anyway - I predict we won't see a report today. It's 3.30pm in Paris and not a peep from the FIA yet.
Schumacher and Alonso who would happily knobble their teammates
Eh?
What about this?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/button-hamilton-teammate-mclaren-weird-966284/3052440/
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/12005491/hamilton-button-crash-what-really-happened
It’s fairly clear you dislike Lewis and Mercedes.
But it’s sport innit – it wouldn’t be sport without goodies/baddies/favourites – that’s what the narrative of any sport is built on. It wouldn’t be important to people if they didn’t form opinions and it didn’t matter to them.
Wrong. It's about perspective. And not seeing things through a biased lens. You can ascribe all sorts of positive or negative traits to anything or anyone, depending on your own narrative. I just don't subscribe to that. Lewis is an amazing driver, the most successful of all time, and a true sporting legend. But even he has resorted to some less than perfect antics at times, such is his desire to win. What I don't like, is when similar traits in some other drivers, notably from other countries than the UK, are hyped up by a partizan media and following, blowing things well out of proportion. The 'baddies' like Vettel and Alonso are extremely popular with most in the F1 circus, Senna was a favourite amongst other drivers, etc. None are perfect, they're all human after all. So perhaps people should drop their negative partizan mindsets, and just enjoy the spectacle.
I don't know what you're going on about now! I'll carry on waiting for the report...
Within the hour I'm led to believe...
Will be interesting to see how the news is reported and received by the various partisan groups on here and the wider world...
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https://twitter.com/adamcooperf1/status/1579484644923277312?s=12&t=YeJ2e55EE1E8VTqLjv41RQ
https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1579487665036009472
That's that sorted then. Can anyone hear any desks being thumped in Brackley!? 🙂
Public reprimand and some docked constructors points then I reckon
Shocker - RedBull confirmed as being the only team to overspend in 2021, but less than 5% so a 'minor breach' in the rules. They also pick up a procedural breach as do Aston (and Williams already had one). Precedent has been set for the procedural breach penalty but for the overspend the FIA have set their stall by saying it's a minor breach, and it's at the lower end of the 5% allowed as a minor breach so you can't expect them to impose the most severe penalties but any penalty has to have meaning. If they impose a fine for the overspend (as seems likely) then will it be at a level to stop teams with big pockets just playing the game and accepting that they can spend a million or two more if they can afford the fine.
Wow they really know how to string this one out.
Everyone at F1 and FIA now trying to come up with a punishment that sounds severe but doesn't actually change anything.
Red Bull had a 262 point lead over 3rd place Ferrari last year so, like multi21, I expect some constructors points to be deducted, but not enough to affect the standings or the driver championship results.
5% reduction in points then...
Fining them the amount they overspent by, would be an apt punishment. Or lower their limit for spending by that amount for next season. A deduction of constructors points is quite meaningless unless you're going to strip all of them as happened to McLaren in 2007. Even them, it's still quite meaningless really. And impose a suspended sentence for any further breach; fine doubles the overspend amount for next offence. Repeated offences to carry expulsion from competing for 1 year etc.
Of course, now it only remains for armchair experts to argue over exactly how much extra that overspend gave the cars on the track...
FIA - "It's taken us a long time to get these figures accurate, hence the delay".
Also FIA - "But we can't give you the actual figures... look squirrel"!
Do the other teams get to scrutinise the figures?
I don't care about a minor overspend, as I said on 'tother pages, the teams should have been budgeting for minor overspend anyway.
Red Bull had a 262 point lead over 3rd place Ferrari last year so, like multi21, I expect some constructors points to be deducted, but not enough to affect the standings or the driver championship results
A non-penalty will make a farce of the whole thing (not unknown for the FIA...) and teams will quite rightfully ask why they are employing expensive accountants and auditors when the alternative is a $25K procedural fine and a minor slap on the wrist. If it's the rumoured 1-2% overspend then gut feeling is exclusion from quali in some races so they start at the back (but please make that meaningful so 2023 rather than in the dead rubbers that remain this year), a reduction in wind tunnel allowance or reduced cost cap allowance for 2023 as those go some way to offsetting the potential advantage gained without undermining past results. That leaves room to step up to points deductions for bigger overspends and to go down to reprimands for those who are just over the limit.
They could make them run with Monster Energy logos for the rest of the season! 🤣
configuration
A deduction of constructors points is quite meaningless
...which is why i reckon it's what the FIA will do. In other words: nothing of consequence 🙂
But again - the media shit-show that will follow this is bought about by the FIAs lack of clarity.
How on earth do they not know what penalty they are going to impose? They made the rules in the first place, did they not think this through?
The constructors points don't matter to the teams now. The prize money that comes from it is meaningless as they all have enough $$$ coming through the door.
less than 5% so a ‘minor breach’ in the rules
Should be similar to Rugby, where you have to average the amounts over 3 seasons.
So any overspend last year, is deducted off the 2023 season.
Only for minor stuff though.
Twitter is fun reading tonight!… 😀
https://twitter.com/spannersready/status/1579504604072796160?s=46&t=YeJ2e55EE1E8VTqLjv41RQ
Meanwhile, the W Series has had to end its season early, due to 'financial difficulties':
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/63206887
Oh look, RB cheated, but will get away with it. Surprise Surprise.
Cheaty McCheat team
