Oof, just saw the Vettel incident with Ocon - Ocon sailed past Vettel and had the choice of racing line, Vettel should've left room but instead tried to take a corner already occupied by Ocon, got too close under braking, lost front downforce and torpedoed the Alpine. Genuinely Vettel's error there. He's also picked up five penalty points this weekend, definitely one to forget for him.
Schumacher also caught out by lack of rear grip in that Haas. Crikey, that thing looks like a sh*tbox. We know that there won't be any upgrades forthcoming for that car, having two rookies pedalling it around trying to keep it from revolving is going to be a steep learning curve for the team.
Aston Martin seem to have lost a lot of momentum since 2020. Despite having a 2019 Merc with the 2020 Merc rear end the car simply lacks pace. Stroll finishing tenth to pick up a lowly point is absolutely not what Aston were hoping for this weekend.
I think AM have been caught out by the new regs. By essentially copying the Merc, I think they maybe now in a position where they don't have the knowledge surrounding the design philosophy to make the required corrections to the car.
The aston paint job is just a little too much like previous mercs, a few times in the race they cut to an aston overtaking/being overtaken and I wondered what the hell a merc was doing there before my brain caught up.
It was race control (not the stewards) that told Red Bull they had to give the place back
The aston paint job is just a little too much like previous mercs
A lot of this. I've seen a Marlboro era McLaren and a Jaguar R3 in the metal so to speak and both were in unexpectedly lurid shades of florescent orange/white and candy-apple green respectively so as to account for being shown on television screens.
I think AM have been caught out by the new regs. By essentially copying the Merc, I think they maybe now in a position where they don’t have the knowledge surrounding the design philosophy to make the required corrections to the car.
The new floor regs favour the teams who developed high rake cars.
The Red Bull has always followed the high rake route, whereas the Mercedes followed the low rake route.
The rake is built into the suspension design, so with the freeze in the mechanical regulations from last year anyone running a Merc engine will be tied into the suspension mounting points, hence AM are going to struggle this year.
Pretty decent race 😉
Couldn’t quite figure out why Red Bull kept Verstappen out for so long on the first stint, though—can’t imagine that helped. The Mercedes wall nailed it, and Hamilton did an incredible job with that last set of tyres.
Vettel’s had a shocking weekend though: rinsed by his teammate, out in Q1, penalty in qualifying, penalty in the race… jeez. Bad day at the office there.
Couldn’t quite figure out why Red Bull kept Verstappen out for so long on the first stint, though—can’t imagine that helped.
I had the same reaction, but I assume it was because Merc had the option of running Bottas for a longer stint and RB didn't have Perez there to cover him. To be fair to RB, Verstappen's strategy would have given him the win if he'd managed to make that pass stick. He was a lot faster on the fresher tyres, it's just that Hamilton drove a superb race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves. If you can't win when you have the faster car, you ain't gonna win the championship.
Norris and Leclerc must be happy to have beaten highly rated teammates. Aston Martin must be considering abandoning the season and working on next year's car. Can't see Vettel sticking around long unless there is a huge improvement in the next few races. Wonder what Hulkenberg's doing.
Vettel’s had a shocking weekend though: rinsed by his teammate, out in Q1, penalty in qualifying, penalty in the race… jeez. Bad day at the office there.
I’m not a Vettel fan, but part of me assumed last years issues were mostly his sulking / Ferraris treatment of him. But driving into another car on the straight and all the rest over the weekend must make AM wonder whether they’ve hired some damaged goods.
Vettel’s behaviour & reputation never recovered in my opinion after deliberately crashing into Hamilton in anger under safety car in Baku. An event which should have seen a race ban.
Since then he’s been error prone and crash prone, and inconsistent.
I’m amazed AM paid him tbh, after last season’s performance I really thought he’d be without a drive this year.
Vettel’s had a shocking weekend
I saw a headline saying he scored 5 points.
thols2
I saw a headline saying he scored 5 points.
He fought particularly aggressively for the last two... 🙂
As I've said before, I find the Vettel hate on these pages unnecessary but his two errors this weekend were beneath the abilities of a four times WDC. Getting five penalty points in two days must be some sort of a record. His crash with Ocon was a schoolboy error - either he was unsighted or his head wasn't properly in the game.
The rake is built into the suspension design, so with the freeze in the mechanical regulations from last year anyone running a Merc engine will be tied into the suspension mounting points, hence AM are going to struggle this year.
There's a lot of sense in this - Hamilton complained of a lack of rear stability in testing. Merc have the resources to develop and experiment with an aero solution to attempt claw back some rear end stability, Aston haven't (yet) got this.
I find the Vettel hate on these pages unnecessary
I don't think it's hate, I think it's bewilderment at how a guy who can be really fast when things go his way can look so hapless. One thing about Alonso and Hamilton is that they both had some very good teammates and generally beat them without needing team orders. Vettel's championships will always be clouded by having the fastest car and being treated as favourite by the team. I suspect that Red Bull were right that he was faster than Webber, but they handled it poorly. When the rules changed and the car didn't suit Vettel, he got thumped by Ricciardo. Same thing happened at Ferrari. Vettel is clearly a good driver, but Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso, Ricciardo, Leclerc, etc. seem to be able to deal with a car that isn't perfect. Vettel can't.
PJM1974
Free Member
As I’ve said before, I find the Vettel hate on these pages unnecessary but his two errors this weekend were beneath the abilities of a four times WDC.
I think he's a nice bloke, but the errors seem a bit out of place for someone with his pedigree & experience in the sport. It's not often you see Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton etc. spin under pressure or plough into the back of another car.
The thing that get me with Vettel is that virtually every time he makes an error, he is straight on the radio blaming the other driver. Claiming yesterday that Ocon moved.....?! Ocon couldn't have driven in a straighter line if he'd been in a Scalextric car!
Since then he’s been error prone and crash prone, and inconsistent
Really? take a look at the 2019 season, and let me know if you think that's inconsistent driving. It's not until the British GP that he has a accident, until that point his lowest position is 5th with two 2nd places behind a hugely dominant Mercedes team (and Ferrari finish 2nd in the season)
I don't get why anyone feels the need to "hate" any driver really. By all means root for some-one you've chosen to support, but most of these guys are super talented drivers.
The thing that get me with Vettel is that virtually every time he makes an error, he is straight on the radio blaming the other driver.
That's not just Vettel TBF, they all do that! Every GP driver thinks he's the world's greatest and that every one else should just get out of the way.
I don’t get why anyone feels the need to “hate” any driver really. By all means root for some-one you’ve chosen to support, but most of these guys are super talented drivers
Mazepin....
Just sayin' 😉
I really like Seb, but you've got to admit, the crash on Sunday and his comments after were just dumb.
Ocon took the outside, he NEVER moved from that line, Seb dove to the outside after Ccon had passed him, just as they entered the braking zone. Seb lost all downforce from the front wing and slammed into the back of an already braking Ocon. Every other driver in that same situation would know they've lost the position (Seb wasnt even alongside), allow the other car to pass into the corner and knowing they'll be compromised on exit and then to sweep into the slipstream of the overtaking car AFTER the corner, then harry and overtake them later. What was Seb thinking?
Mazepin….Just sayin’ 😉
Oh sure, look he's going to be the butt of every-ones jokes this year, but again; 5th in last years F2 (and experienced with 18" wheels, like the other newly promoted F2 drivers) indicates that there's something there. Yes, dad's paying the bills, and everyone made the same jokes about Lance Stroll, who I think most people think now has probably earned his seat.
On the face of it, he doesn't seem like a likeable guy, but isn't everyone a bit of dick at that age? I think most of us didn't behave stupidly in the full glare of publicity though.
I really like Seb, but you’ve got to admit, the crash on Sunday and his comments after were just dumb.
Oh yeah, without a doubt .I was watching through my hands saying "what were you thinking...!" I think he does get frustrated on track, and I think mostly with himself because he's knows what he can do.
Quote from The Race from Ocon for context:
Asked by The Race how he saw it, Ocon replied: “He came and apologised and he got the penalty for it so it’s all OK. If we were fighting for good points at that time I would have been more upset, clearly.
“I stayed on my line and it looks like basically he comes in my dirty air. So he’s moving to the left to the normal line but he’s losing the grip and that’s when he locks up and pushes me in the back.”
Mazepin….Just sayin’ 😉
It's Mazepin's off-track behaviour that invites criticism as much as his on track poor attitude. To be fair to Mazepin, that Haas is a shitbox and Mick Schumacher was caught out by it but Mazepin's error prone practice and qualifying indicate that he's struggling more than his team mate.
On the face of it, he doesn’t seem like a likeable guy, but isn’t everyone a bit of dick at that age?
I told a friend about Mazepin and his history. My friend just said, "Ah, the guy who pissed off John Wick." I couldn't have summarized it better. Mazepin just seems like a rich, entitled ****, his behaviour is far beyond just being a bit of a dick.
yeah, I know, I am struggling...Didn't he punch another F2 or F3 driver after a race a couple of years back?
.
It’s Mazepin’s off-track behaviour that invites criticism
After his lame apology for being a ****, he did say he wants to be judged by his results on track. Seems fair to me.
Here's a summary of Mazepin's *y behaviour.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/k4snkn/nikita_mazepin_and_his_problematic_behaviour_a/
I hadn't heard about this one before, Jesus, what a *.
I enjoyed this analysis of Mercedes strategy. I realised how everything had to come perfectly together to get this to work with no margins for error.
And I don't hate Vettel but I did s**** at his performances this weekend. He has always been a fast driver - he based his reputation on getting pole in a fast car and then vanishing out of DRS range. Admittedly Hamilton does the same but he does seem to have the racers head on.
Look at Vettel throwing away victory in Canaada 2011 under pressure from Button who had been from the back of the field TWICE to get there.
Spin tracker!... 🙂
http://mazesp.in/?fbclid=IwAR0y4rAC558RgzdikvYMa6vBXVswkxIbweUNMWO8HsnkVfv65lpsBlEv5zc
I think it was an okay race. I really hope there is a season long battle for the top spot rather than hoping Hamilton slips up and someone catches.
I feel sorry for Vettel. He seems a shadow of his former self. Even the tone of his voice in interviews is very muted.
I know this was a race at night but I found it hard to tell the difference between some cars from the front, like the Alfa Tauri and the Aston head on.
Chew
The new floor regs favour the teams who developed high rake cars.
The Red Bull has always followed the high rake route, whereas the Mercedes followed the low rake route.The rake is built into the suspension design, so with the freeze in the mechanical regulations from last year anyone running a Merc engine will be tied into the suspension mounting points, hence AM are going to struggle this year.
I wonder if the change was made specifically with an eye to close the gap from the other teams to Mercedes.
I don't think that was the intent, but it's been a nice side-effect.
The reduction in downforce was requested by Pirelli who where concerned that their tyres couldn't cope with increased forces if left unchecked. After all, these cars shouldn't even be racing this season.
I wonder if the change was made specifically with an eye to close the gap from the other teams to Mercedes.
I think it was because downforce has increased over the last few years and the tyres weren't able to handle the loads. The idea was to try and put this year's cars back to where they were at the beginning of last year. However, just cutting a chunk out of the floor is probably going to affect the most highly developed car the most. Merc ran a longer wheelbase with less rake and got their downforce from the larger floor area, so reducing the floor area seems to have had a bigger effect on them. I don't think it was deliberately designed to target them, it just turned out that way.
the-muffin-man
The reduction in downforce was requested by Pirelli who where concerned that their tyres couldn’t cope with increased forces if left unchecked. After all, these cars shouldn’t even be racing this season.
Absolutely but what I mean is that there are a million ways to cut everybody's downforce e.g. cutting the size of the rear wing or number of front wing elements. I wondered if specifically reducing D/F in this specific way might have been chosen for that reason.
Anyway nice result in closing the field, bit of a shame for Vettel lol.
I don't think anybody really knew how it would affect the high-rake versus low-rake cars. One theory was that it would make it harder for the high-rake cars to stabilize the vortices that seal the underfloor. That would have benefitted Merc and hurt Red Bull. It turned out the opposite. I don't think it was specifically to target Merc. Whatever the case, the two cars are close enough that I expect each team to be ahead on some circuits and behind on others. That will make for a great season if it holds for the entire year. I have a feeling that Merc are going to make some big steps forward in the next couple of months though now that they understand their car better.
The thing with Vettel is he’s a very fast driver but not really a racer.
I don’t think he’s won a race from outside the top 3 on the grid?
If you disregard his 4 championship years, and rated him on the other years, would you put him in the same group as Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Leclerc?
It’ll be embarrassing if he’s beaten by Stroll this year.
Chew
Free MemberThe thing with Vettel is he’s a very fast driver but not really a racer.
I don’t think he’s won a race from outside the top 3 on the grid?
Can#t think of any.
He did come back from 18th to 4th in canada a few years back
eta
The thing with Vettel is he’s a very fast driver but not really a racer.
Yes, he reminds me of Damon Hill, who was very fast but never seemed quite at the same level of the very top guys when it came to wheel-to-wheel racing. He was fast enough that he would easily have won multiple championships if things had gone slightly differently, but his final season at Jordan was just embarrassing.
thols2
Yes, he reminds me of Damon Hill, who was very fast but never seemed quite at the same level of the very top guys when it came to wheel-to-wheel racing. He was fast enough that he would easily have won multiple championships if things had gone slightly differently, but his final season at Jordan was just embarrassing.
Agree, and Bottas IMO
If Hamilton gets punted to the back it wouldn't be a surprise to see him on the podium. If it were Bottas I'd expect him to end up 8th.
I bet Redbull are pretty happy to have Perez in the second car and not Albon after yesterday's race! Had that happened to Albon at the start I don't think he would have even made it into the top 10.
Looking at the delta from last year to this year, the Redbull is about 0.5s a lap slower, whereas everyone else is about 1.5-2.3seconds slower. Given how much more planted the Red Bull appears, I think Albon might’ve actually done alright. They recon a 1.5 second over speed is what’s required to pass.
Albon’s had a few decent recovery drives in his time; his issue was more about constantly being so far back from Max that he couldn’t be used strategically and couldn’t keep that car in the top four where it belonged.
Perez is one the absolute masters of recovery drives, though. Just a shame that tyre strategy, yellow flags and a power cut meant that was what he had to do again this time.
Perez & Ocon have had a prang in FP1.
he's finding the limits 😀
I hope Netflix are with the Haas team this weekend.
Klunk
Free Memberhe’s finding the limits 😀
of Gunther's patience i imagine
I hope Netflix are with the Haas team this weekend.
I'm pretty sure they could pick any weekend. Monaco's going to be particularly unforgiving 😀
obviously the car is a pig, but that's ****ing embarassing 😁
If only Mazepin can be persuaded not to allow his off-track shenanigans screw up everyone else's weekends...
*checks notes* Schumacher has only spun once so far in the same car, during Bahrain's race and managed to keep it going to the finish.
What happened with Perez and Ocon?
But following a hearing with the drivers immediately after the session, the stewards announced neither would face any further action - with the fact that technical issues throughout FP1 meant communications between drivers and their teams was limited a mitigating factor.
In their ruling the stewards said: "Ocon slowed before Turn 5 in order to let Perez by, as well as moving entirely to the inside of the turn. Perez was on a fast lap. The two cars reached the apex at the same time, and just barely touched wheels.
"In the end, both drivers agreed in the hearing that it was an unfortunate miscommunication of timing between them, not helped by the fact that both drivers had limited or no communications with their teams at the time. Both drivers agreed that neither was at fault."
have merc unleashed the Kraken ?
the spin doctor is out on track...
that looks a bit more than a software issue (Verstappen) ....
Leclercs binned it!
the mercs look well planted.
Really hope it’s just a temporary glitch for Max. Really want to see him taking the fight to Lewis as I don’t think anyone else can.
How’s finger boy doing?
Oh no too well again. 😆
drive shaft for verstappen.
drive shaft for verstappen.
Good, should be a simple fix.
How’s finger boy doing?
Oh no too well again. 😆
I'm starting to feel quite sad for him now! 🙂
have merc unleashed the Kraken ?
Yeah, was just wondering the same thing.
Aston are sort of threatening legal action if they don't get the rules changed 😀
Aston are sort of threatening legal action if they don’t get the rules changed 😀
Trying not to laugh.
Failing.
Aston will have to get their crack designers tracers on the job. Surely with their expertise they can find a way out of this! 🤣🤣
that's one smashed alpha....
Bugger. I like his racing.
he can have some fun making his way through the field (again)
mediums in q2 might be risky looking at these times
I hope Netflix are with the Haas team this weekend.
If they have any sense, they’ll have a team glued to them 24x7!
Poor Tsunoda, the only upside to this is that we're going to see some epic overtakes as he comes through the field tomorrow.
Interesting Q1 team mate battles - Norris 3rd having used two sets of soft tyres in Q3, Ricciardo thirteenth having used three sets. There's a whopping half a second between Schumacher and Mazepin. It's worth noting that in terms of testing experience Mazepin has covered more than 4,000km, almost double the distance of Mick Schumacher...
just go faster on the mediums!
My favourite Mazepin stat so far...
Romain Grosjean spent more time on fire in Bahrain than Mazepin has racing an F1 car.
Sainz doing a vettel
Q2 and just 0.002 seconds separate Norris and Perez. The Aston Martin of 2021 isn't the car that the 2020 Racing Point was. I would imagine that the Aston Martin garage is probably not a happy and harmonious place right now, if the lack of rake really is the issue that AM are claiming then that feature is baked in for the remainder of the season.
Seven minutes of Q3 remaining and my betting is Hamilton, Verstappen, Perez, Norris, Bottas, Leclerc, Gasly, Ricciardo, Stroll, Ocon... (prepares to be completely wrong).
LOL we need to slow down the cars..... only a couple of tenths or so off last novembers time
scrub that.... it was a 13.6 last year