I agree a really dull race designed to take in money rather than provide a decent race. It was a shame that David redbull groupie coulthard was back giving his usual high standards of unbiased commentary and analysis
So Bottas is facing up to the fact that he'll never be world champion. While he was with Merc there was always a glimmer of hope, but even with the new rules I'm not convinced he'll taste much champagne with Alfa. Must be a tough day when you look in the mirror and admit you're only in it for the money.
As for the race, it was a classic F1 "watch the gaps shrink and extend" type of race rather than wheel to wheel at the front. As usual the midfield was still pretty close but that never seems to excite some. I enjoyed it, but if Max were to quit F1 it obviously wouldn't stay on the calendar.
I like the Jensen Button commentary on Sky F1, especially at the point he said "...well one of us sitting here commentating has won an F1 World Championship..."
ouch 🙂
Must be a tough day when you look in the mirror and admit you’re only in it for the money.
Really? I get that every time I go to work, and I guess his job is a lot more fun than mine, even if he's not winning.
thepurist
Full Member
Must be a tough day when you look in the mirror and admit you’re only in it for the money.
Drive a F1 car, or not drive a F1 car...... I know what I'd chose to do
Must be a tough day when you look in the mirror and admit you’re only in it for the money.
Unless you actually enjoy racing cars. Getting paid millions to race a mid-field F1 car is still a pretty decent job.
As far as Bottas and Merc trying to sabotage each other, they are all professionals and I would not expect that from either side. Bottas is still paid to drive for Merc so he will conduct himself professionally. Merc seem to have a lot of respect for him and they aren't going to pull any dirty tricks on him. Lewis will probably retire in a couple of years so there's still a realistic chance of Bottas being taken back as a teammate for Russell.
From the timing looks like Bottas did back off. Still got fastest lap but not so fast it was going to trouble Hamilton on fresh tyres.
I'm getting the impression that C4's highlights were at fault - not the race!
I honestly though it was a decent race, not a classic but far from dull.
Am reeling from the shock announcement that absolutely noone saw coming - Bottas to Alfa Romeo. Gosh.
Lewis will probably retire in a couple of years so there’s still a realistic chance of Bottas being taken back as a teammate for Russell.
This did cross my mind too - but the fact of the matter Lewis has signed on for (at least) two more years, Bottas will be 34 at the end of 2023 and realistically will be looking to retire, not to return as understudy to newly promoted team leader Russell whom he doesn't have the best of relationships with.
Unless you actually enjoy racing cars. Getting paid millions to race a mid-field F1 car is still a pretty decent job.
True, but I'd wager that pretty much every driver who signs with an F1 team (not you, Mazepin!) believes they are a potential champion. That's probably been their dream since the early days of karting or F3, and for Bottas that dream is over. That's got to make a difference, but maybe it takes the pressure off and he can really just enjoy the racing now.
I really like Bottas
Vettel looks revitalised as a person as well as a driver having taken a step back from the pressure and expectation (and poison) at Ferrari to Aston Martin, and from the outside having the owners son as your team mate would look to be a horrible situation for him.
It could be a happier and racier Bottas we see next year. Some winning environments are built for ruthlessness, but it isn't the only way to win and some can be happier and win without that.
I turned it off after 10 minutes, but then I knew the result at that point.
I keep trying to stick with F1 but keep getting easily distracted. I think Max will be world champion this year, he really has the right car under him now and Merc are lagging ever so slightly. Next year though....I'm very interested to see that goes with the new cars and regs.
Thing is, if you are going to have to move to a low/midfield team, with the reg change it's probably about the best time possible.
They could even find something a la brawn and have a competitive car.
plumber
Free Member
I really like Bottas
Same, I was a fan when he was at Williams. He has the speed for the most part, I just think he lacks a bit of killer instinct.
If Lewis ended up at the back, I reckon he'd find his way back up to top 5, if not the podium. Whereas bottas would get stuck passing the mid field and end up about 8th. It's just that extra little bit that he lacks.
More unexpectedly shocking news from Mercedes and George Russell Russell to Merc next year.
“Long term” contract according to F1.com. No details but that sounds like a minimum of 3 years—no real surprise given that many of the other rising stars are contracted through 2024 or thereabouts.
Bring it on 🙂
Really looking forward to seeing Russell joining Merc next year. I think he’s going to put Hamilton under some real pressure and I can’t see Russell playing the role of number two driver like Bottas does.
I honestly think there’s going to be fireworks between the two.
I honestly think there’s going to be fireworks between the two.
Let's hope so 😁
Oh, it’ll blow the doors off, there’s no doubting that, but I suspect it won’t get too heated. The question will be what Toto does about it if they’re taking points off each other while Max or another driver in another team is up there with them—ie I don’t think the risk is so much the 2016 scenario, it’s the 2007 one.
3 year deal must really sting for Bottas - as they never fully committed to him.
Russel has a really impressive qualifying record, but he has almost never equaled that in races. Hamilton is still a very strong qualifier, so I would expect that to go roughly 50-50, and he has many years of experience racing at the front under massive pressure. My guess is that Hamilton's experience will give him an advantage over the season, probably going to be like Ricciardo versus Verstappen.
I think next year Mercedes will need to be on it to avoid a 2007 repeat, as other has said. Initially it's more likely to be like that than the 2014-2016 years of inter-team fighting with no threat. They'll have to back one horse and given George is younger and new to the team, unless he pulverises Lewis in the first few races they'll back Lewis to be "Number One" with a promise that the second year (and Lewis' last year most likely) is open season and fight among yourselves.
I wouldn't be surprised Lewis has negotiated seniority for his contract term in an effort to win the 8th title and become the official GOAT on all counts and keep that legacy with Mercedes. I suspect if he does it in 2021 or 2022 then as above it returns to equal opportunities until Team orders come into play.
Apart from Red Bull, I think all the teams will have to start with a policy of treating both drivers equally, letting them race each other when there's no danger of losing positions overall, but telling them to hold position when it's needed for team strategy. That will change later in the season if one driver is a contender and the other isn't, but none of the drivers in the top five teams are going to accept being told they aren't allowed to race their teammate at the start of the season and I don't think Hamilton feels he needs that sort of assistance. I think it'll be a moot point for Perez because I don't think he's going to be a threat to Verstappen regardless of team orders.
Albon confirmed at Williams - hope he does better in a more relaxed environment...
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/08/albons-return-formula-1-williams-latifi-stays/
...and the wallet Latifi stays on too.
I'm pleased about that, always thought he deserved another crack at it.
Excellent - Albon definitely deserves an F1 career, I hope that he makes a success of it with Williams. The final piece in the 2022 jigsaw is Bottas' teammate at Alfa Romeo, which could well be de Vries.
It's looking like de Vries is nailed on for that seat. Can't see Gio redeeming himself, he's had many years of being very average.
I thought the second Alfa Romeo seat was "influenced" by Ferrari (through some clauses in the engine deal), making me think Mick S is a more likely candidate for the second seat there, and DeVries being left out in the cold?
There have been rumours of Alfa switching to Mercedes power, but I just can't see that happening with a headline sponsor (Alfa) part of the same group (Stellantis Nee PSA/Vauxhall etc) as Ferrari. Put a direct rivals engine in you premium marketing race team? Doubtful, or the Alfa sponsorship will disappear! .
Alfa haven't really committed to F1 long term though - I'm pretty sure they are now on a rolling 1 year at a time branding deal now.
Going back to Red Bull, I can't remember if they have ever been able to control 2 equal drivers, there has always been clashes between their drivers.
Webber and Coulthard?
keithb
There have been rumours of Alfa switching to Mercedes power, but I just can’t see that happening with a headline sponsor (Alfa) part of the same group (Stellantis Nee PSA/Vauxhall etc) as Ferrari. Put a direct rivals engine in you premium marketing race team? Doubtful, or the Alfa sponsorship will disappear! .
Isn't there a limit on how many teams an engine supplier can supply though?
making me think Mick S is a more likely candidate for the second seat there
If I were Mick I’d have taken the earliest opportunity to start negotiating a better seat than the shitshow that is Haas (never mind the double shitshow that is Haas plus Mazepin). I always disliked his dad, which unfortunately taints my sympathy, but I can’t help but feel sorry for anyone having to occupy that seat.
Isn’t there a limit on how many teams an engine supplier can supply though?
Believe its a minimum number rather than a maximum
Isn’t there a limit on how many teams an engine supplier can supply though?
Believe its a minimum number rather than a maximum
Not as such. What happens is that every team (bar Mercedes, Ferrari and Alpine) negotiate an engine deal with one of those or Honda or anyone new entering the game, such as Red Bull, they can pick whoever they like.
However, the rule then says that if a team can't agree an engine supply deal with anyone then the supplier which supplies the fewest teams MUST supply them (I don't know what the rules say if there are two supplying equal numbers or what it says they can charge) Before Red Bull sorted themselves out Renault would have been obliged to supply them if they had no other option, that would have been an interesting relationship! Currently it is still Renault (with 1 team) who would be the fall back option for any team without a supplier.
Webber and Coulthard?
That was before they started winning races, now that they're at the sharp end it seems that they can't support both drivers equally like Mercedes/Ferrari (to an extent).
Ferrari are an interesting example for team orders.
1999 Irvine was definite number two to Schumacher, gifted him a win, costing him four points. Schumacher then broke his leg and Irvine went on to lose the champby two points. Team orders cost them the title.
2007 Kimi won the title and should have been the de facto number one but Massa had a fantastic 2008 and lost the championship by one point, had they got Kimi to support him he would have won, but everyone would have thought they were mad. Not having team orders cost them the title.
.
RB never used to admit to having a favourite but it was clear that they favoured Vettel over Webber even when both were in the title fight, giving Vettel Webber's wing for example, before Webber went on to win the race
.
Top marks to Mercedes though, and they way they handled the Hamilton/Rosberg battle, randomly allocating engines or swapping the mechanics over between 15 and 16, its only now that it is not obvious it will be one of their drivers who wins and its just a question of which that they are having an obvious number one and two. In the first half of 19 Bottas was a genuine title contender.
Ferrari has been independent of FCA and now Stellantis since 2016, so I don’t think the motor has any bearing on the Alfa sponsorship
Ah, didn't know that... With Fiat going into Stellantis, I'd thought that Fiat/Ferrarri were part of the same group still,
Every day is a school day!
I think the company that owns Stellantis still has a c20% share in Ferrari so the link is still there.
Thing with Schumacher was that he was faster than all his teammates, that's why he got number 1 status. Irvine was honest enough to admit that.
From what I understand about the Vettel-Webber thing, the team's telemetry showed that Vettel was faster. I remember Webber saying that he thought he could beat Vettel in an old style car but Vettel just nailed the blown diffuser technique. Problem for Vettel is that he needs that rear-end grip for confidence and just looks very ordinary without it.
Verstappen has demolished all his teammates since Ricciardo. If someone turned up who could outqualify and outrace Verstappen, I'm sure Red Bull would be thrilled. That's what happened when Ricciardo demolished Vettel.
Problem with the Ferrari and Red Bull situations for me is how the teams went about things. Mercedes have obviously told Bottas that his job this year is to support Hamilton, but they started the year as equals and Bottas just wasn't able to beat Hamilton or Verstappen. I think that's a much better way to do things than how Red Bull and Ferrari have treated their drivers.
With Albon to Williams; how about a change of engine supplier for them? Honda/Redbull power to Williams, so they will have 3 teams. Merc: Maclaren and Aston. Ferrari: Alpha and Hass. Alpine all lonely.
Current Williams Team Principal Jost Capito was employed at Volkswagen as Director of Motorsport. Coincidentally, the engine constructors (and Volkswagen) are meeting this weekend to discuss new engine regs - VW is keen to enter F1 and had originally planned to use it's successful V4 engine as the basis of an F1 power unit, minus the MGU-H for 2025. Red Bull is also said to be keen to drop the MGU-H...