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And Mazepin has a five second penalty for punting Schumacher into a spin. That'll go down well in the team debrief.
Edit: Beaten by seconds.
Mazepin is out - looks like a PU issue? He won't be missed in the remainder of this race.
It's fantastic to see Ricciardo finally get to grips with that McLaren, he's led on merit.
Aye I’m absolutely delighted for Ricciardo and McLaren but I’m still bouncing about that incident with Hamilton and Verstappen. Been shouting at the telly like a lunatic
Time for a shoey
Get in!
Great stuff. Loving the slap on the arse for Zac! 😂
Forgot about shoeys it’s been that long
That was a good race once the willy wavers cleared off.
My cousin drives for McLaren, they'll be happy this evening.
(He's a HGV driver and he's one of the guys that transport everything from place to place for them)
If Max is a handful of points ahead going into the final race of the season, this feels like it might go a bit Senna/Prost...
Mega from McLaren today though.
Given RB were looking at this weekend as damage limitation they’ll be reasonably pleased with extending the lead in the drivers championship and probably accepting of the constructors situation.
Assuming the stewards aren’t still trying to work out how many penalties ought to be applied.
Interesting watching the interviews with Lewis/Toto and Max/Christian. RB coming across badly IMO. Max especially was not very consistent in his responses, was all over the place and talked for too long where Lewis put his point across concisely and that was it. Damon Hill was spot on, either a professional foul or error of judgment. He was probably still fuming after the slow stop. He’s hot headed at the best of times.
Assuming the stewards aren’t still trying to work out how many penalties ought to be applied.
Verstappen is probably going to take a new engine next race anyway so penalties won't really bother him.
Di Resta saying racing incident. Herbert and Hill both saying Max could have (and should have) avoided. Needless to say I’ve been calling Di Resta worse than a pick pocket
3 place grid penalty for Verstappen
https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/12/verstappen-given-three-place-grid-penalty-for-hamilton-crash/
Good. He deserves it. I’d like to think it’ll get him to wind his neck in but I doubt it..
As if.....It'll just fuel his belief that everyone's against him.
Here’s a thought I just had - if MV had Toto as a team manager (or maybe another manager like the Mclcaren boss) then he would have won the WDC by now.
I think the whole RB machine is based on bravado and being tough and it isn’t helping MV at all. I don’t think Windbag is a good team boss, he isn’t the full package like Toto is at all.
Personally I hope MV lamps someone or something else heinous and gets banned for a race. Can’t stand the pompous Sid faced stress bag at all.
Love this. Wonderful dig at MV.
I guess LH and Toto didn’t need to say much after Silverstone as they knew MV would put his foot in it fairly soon.
With MV entering F1 at such an early age and showing such promise I really think that he was advised to never concede a corner so in preceding years he would have built up such a reputation that everyone will get out his way. Hamilton’s now on to him!
It’s been said before but Lewis really started winning a lot when he started playing the long game. Going banzai on a corner is sometimes a great racing move, but just as much can cost you the place, the race or the championship.
If MV wants to be WDC he needs better advice. Not from Windbag, or his dad (nasty piece of work) but someone who can mentor him properly. He has skill and pace but he needs more than that if he wants to do more than win a few races.
If MV wants to be WDC he needs better advice. Not from Windbag, or his dad (nasty piece of work) but someone who can mentor him properly. He has skill and pace but he needs more than that if he wants to do more than win a few races.
Agree with all this...except I think he will be WDC this year. But I think it would do him good in the long term to get away from Horner and Helmet
I wonder if Redbull have booked Albon for tomorrow?
Di Resta saying racing incident. Herbert and Hill both saying Max could have (and should have) avoided. Needless to say I’ve been calling Di Resta worse than a pick pocket
I normally have a lot of time for Di Resta but he came across as a bit of a nobber today, highly dismissive of anybody else’s point of view and refused to blame anyone else other than Hamilton.
Karen seemed to be very humble post race, not his usual aggressive self......
Brilliant to see a McLaren 1-2.
Will Horner bill MV for the damage?!
There’s a budget cap now after all 😀
Verstappen is probably going to take a new engine next race anyway so penalties won’t really bother him.
This is what irks me, he takes both of them out of the race maintaining the championship lead and effectively gets away with it scot free due to engine penalties which no doubt he will take at the next race.
What an obnoxious piece of work Verstappen is. Regardless of their history and feud, to just walk away from the scene without even a glance to see if Hamilton was OK is just so bad. What sort of man does that?
I notice a distinct lack of hysterics from Merc. No MV was trying to murder LH or anything - just heads down and get on with it.
Disgraceful from Max not to check in on Lewis too, even if it had been nailed on Lewis's fault, as first person out of their car he should have gone and checked.
I notice a distinct lack of hysterics from Merc. No MV was trying to murder LH or anything - just heads down and get on with it.
Disgraceful from Max not to check in on Lewis too, even if it had been nailed on Lewis's fault, as first person out of their car he should have gone and checked.
I'm no LH fanboy but agreed Max should have cut the chicane/yielded. Chuffed for McLaren/Danny Ric. Bottas driver of the day for me.
Lewis seems quite smug about Max’s penalty.
I wpulfnhave put that at a racing incident, 70/30 Verstappen's fault. Silverstone the same but maybe 60/40 Hamilton's fault.
But as someone said above, why can everyone else do it properly?
.
Also, what is it with drivers who are leaving?
Bottas had his best race of the year now he's definitely going, Giovanazi seems to have upped his game now he's probably off too. Happened to Perez last year, he was amazing after RP dropped him. Why does getting dropped seem to lead to an upturn?
I agree, I agree, I agree.
Bloody thing! It told me it had a 502 Bad Gateway whatever that is
why can everyone else do it properly?
They can't, there has been many more collisions than the two involving Lewis and Max.
Both of them have made a career out of giving opponents the choice of be overtaken or crash - Hamilton less so now than when younger but he still has done it
Purely inevitable and both as bad
I do laugh at the way Hamilton can do no wrong for so many on here when he is equally ruthless
Max has shown what a total turd he is by saying over the radio that's what you get if you dont leave enough room, then just walking off without checking on Lewis after landing on top of him, totally disgusting, imagine Horner's reaction if the roles were reversed. Max is a sociopath who thinks he's entitled to every corner, Lewis's actions on the first lap to avoid a collision helped the stewards realise what Max is.
Hamilton spent the whole race taking caution on the overtake, more than many others in fact. As the ruling shows the views was that - like others who’d set the precedent - Verstappen took the choice to continue to turn in rather than cut the corner an concede.
Lewis continues with “hard but fair” whereas Verstappen continues with “unrelenting and entitled”.
This could have been very very nasty...
Reminds me of the old joke... "What do you call a man with a car on his head?"
At least you can't point at one incident that turned the championship fight this year - there have already been plenty of points lost by incident and accident on both sides.
I notice a distinct lack of hysterics from Merc. No MV was trying to murder LH or anything – just heads down and get on with it.
Wolff did describe it as a 'tactical foul' by Verstappen. I think he may have a point though.
In fariness to Max and with respect to walking off - Lewis was clearly trying to reverse out of the gravel trap as Max walked away.
BUT WRT to the crash, same corner, leclerc in MV position and Bottas in LH position, leclerc bailed knowing how couldn't make the corner without causing a collision. MV didn't and caused a collision.
As Coulthard stated after the race, if there had been a wall there, MV wouldn't have put himself in that position, but as usual, he decided to play dodgems, just hoping that he could bang his way through with the wheels parallel.
This season, I do believe the MV deserves the Championship based on what we've seen up to this point, but he's not doing himself any favours at the moment. I fully agree with Damon Hill here - MV calculated the cost of that collision and thought he could get away with it.
Lewis continues with “hard but fair” whereas Verstappen continues with “unrelenting and entitled”.
And there is my point made.
Hamiliton has done exactly that many times in his career. given his opponents the choice of being hit or being overtaken. Less so now than when younger but he has plenty previous for nerffing rivals off the track - indeed he did it at silverstone
I think Max has taken the view that he needs to show that he will never back down in order to intimidate drivers to not challenge him. That works when you are not a championship contender and the other driver has much more to lose. Doesn't work when the other guy isn't intimidated and also has nothing to lose.
Wolff did describe it as a ‘tactical foul’ by Verstappen
That was a single, pertinent comment; calmly made and not repeated. Horner, Dr Marko etc ramped up the hyperbole with every interview and accusing someone of a tactical foul is not screaming 'they tried to kill my driver' at every opportunity 🙂
In fariness to Max and with respect to walking off – Lewis was clearly trying to reverse out of the gravel trap as Max walked away.
Car could have been stuck in gear, driver could have been unconscious foot on pedal, driver in car could have been running on pure adrenaline but seriously injured and not noticed etc. He should have checked. Any driver would have checked if only to then tell them to f off if they were ok.
In fariness to Max and with respect to walking off – Lewis was clearly trying to reverse out of the gravel trap as Max walked away.
I'm not sure that absolves him of the responsibility to just walk over a check everything is OK, The car could've been stuck, throttle, engine etc, he was literally "Johnny on the spot" I think it's a pretty poor show.
Horner's reaction was telling. When asked to give his view on who was to blame he went straight for "this was a racing incident". He knew his driver was mainly to blame, the stewards agreed
Just watched it, Verstappen is a complete tool! I didn't have much respect for him before but absolutely none now, utterly classless! Especially after all Karen Horner's nonsense last time.
Looking at the replays, Verstappen's attempted overtake was opportunistic at best, at no point was his Red Bull level with Hamilton's Merc. I'm not sure that I subscribe to the anti-Verstappen hysteria on these pages though, most of the rest of the grid have tried to make an opportunistic pass at one time or another but without cannoning into a sausage kerb and bouncing onto another car.
The actual accident was shocking though - imagine if that had been pre-Halo, Lewis would have sustained a serious neck injury for sure.
I’m not sure that I subscribe to the anti-Verstappen hysteria on these pages though, most of the rest of the grid have tried to make an opportunistic pass at one time or another but without cannoning into a sausage kerb and bouncing onto another car.
No hysteria, it was a clumsy move, the stewards agreed. Max clearly had no intention of driving over the top of Lewis though.
Should he have checked on Lewis? He'll need to reflect on that himself.
Car could have been stuck in gear, driver could have been unconscious foot on pedal, driver in car could have been running on pure adrenaline but seriously injured and not noticed etc. He should have checked. Any driver would have checked if only to then tell them to f off if they were ok.
If you watch it, Hamilton actively tries (starts and stops a couple of times) as Verstappen is walking by. He would've been able to hear and see this. Had Lewis been successful in reversing out, it might've placed Max in more danger of being hit by Lewis...saying that, he did walk right behind a car attempting to reverse, so...
Hamiliton has done exactly that many times in his career. given his opponents the choice of being hit or being overtaken.
There’s a significant difference between giving someone else the choice as to whether to have a collision, and being the one who causes the collision. The former is a pretty standard racing tactic and is a result of positioning the car where you’re entitled to hold the line (as per Mercedes’ argument at Silverstone in reference to the FIA’s pre-existing guidance), while the latter is just over-aggressive driving and comes as a result of being positioned where your opponent is entitled to hold their line.
Should he have checked on Lewis? He’ll need to reflect on that himself.
Agreed, but Max could see that Lewis was attempting to reverse out so it would've been clear that there wasn't a major injury there. Max was clearly furious as he felt that he'd had the door slammed on him. I should think that the stewards meeting and subsequent penalty might've given him some clarity though.
Max knew what he was doing for sure and it again shows his unwillingness to play the long term game and instead just throw his dummy out the pram or resort to playing dirty.
He knew that with Lewis ahead, he had zero chance of getting back past and would lose points; he couldn't get past a Mclaren so how could he get past a faster Mercedes? No problem, just lob it up the inside and not cut the chicane as others would, best case I get past and we bump wheels, worst case we're both out and I've lost nothing. It's just petulance and one day its going to end in tears. His sheer "I'm right, it's my corner, everyone else is wrong" sense of entitlement mentally has already caused a number of incidents.
I get it, everyone makes mistakes/misjudgements in the heat of the moment, Lewis included, but Max is next level in terms of entitlement and I hope it doesn't take someone getting seriously hurt or worse for him to realise that sometimes you just have to accept defeat and be a man about it.
That max was spinning his wheels while on top of Hamo's car says it all for me. Had he hooked it up he'd have ripped his head off.
I say 50/50 on the crash and I'm a die hard Hamo fan incidentally TJ
it was a clumsy and desperate move, in my opinion. Trying to overtake around the outside in a tight chicane is optimistic at best.
Whoever wins the championship, Max and Horner have certainly not come out of this season well...
So pleased for Danny Ric, hope this sorts his confidence out and marks a turnaround in his year. Really seemed like he had genuine pace in the car, opening a fair gap to Lando and setting the fastest lap towards the end.
Regarding Max / Hammo - Brad Philpot on Missed Apex summed my feelings up perfectly.
Max basically wants it both ways - being able to run people wide and force them off the track when it suits, but also him being left space when he's trying to make the move.
Really seemed like he had genuine pace in the car, opening a fair gap to Lando and setting the fastest lap towards the end.
That’s happened at Monza a lot over the years. Good engine and slippery in a straight line opens it up to different results. Unfortunately take the car straight back to somewhere that needs to excel in the corners (eg Barcelona) and normal service resumes. Still really good to see a McLaren 1-2 for the first time since………..?
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Pook
Full MemberThat max was spinning his wheels while on top of Hamo’s car says it all for me.
To me that just says a driver is trying to get back into the race. Interesting that it seems ok for Hamilton to be running on adrenaline but not Verstappen
Max basically wants it both ways – being able to run people wide and force them off the track when it suits, but also him being left space when he’s trying to make the move.
This is it in a nutshell - he (and Horner) just seems totally blind to his hypocrisy.
Really seemed like he had genuine pace in the car, opening a fair gap to Lando and setting the fastest lap towards the end.
He was told to go for it at the end to get the fastest lap. Norris was told to hold station and was only informed after a lap or so that Daniel had been told to go for it. That's why there was a gap.
Really seemed like he had genuine pace in the car, opening a fair gap to Lando and setting the fastest lap towards the end.
I think it was a track specific thing. Ricciardo has had trouble adapting to how the McLaren needs to be turned into corners. A high-speed circuit will mask that. What is encouraging is that he seems just as fast as Lando when the car suits him. There's a good chance that next year's McLaren won't have that issue for Ricciardo so the two McLaren drivers may be very closely matched next year if last weekend is any guide. That would actually leave Red Bull as the only front running team without two top drivers.
Brilliant for Ricardo.
As for max he will get away Scott free by taking the inevitable extra engine change at the same time.
chrismac
As for max he will get away Scott free by taking the inevitable extra engine change at the same time.
I guess the only thing is that it forces his hand into doing so at a track where it's very hard to overtake.
I guess the only thing is that it forces his hand into doing so at a track where it’s very hard to overtake.
Yeah but when he's on a charge Max is one of the best overtakers in F1.... oh hang on.
That’s not exactly insightful. He can’t turn left or hold straight as there’s a massive kerb in front of him, and he’s too late to go down the escape route. If he had done the crash might’ve been even worse
Yeah, if you watch the onboard, his steering inputs are fine for a wide radius on the first Retifilio and a very tight line on the second. Nothing wrong with his line through there in terms of making the corner, the only fly in the ointment is the fact that Hamilton is in the Retifilio too and is ahead of him throughout the chicane. Single frames rarely tell a fair story of an incident.
TBH, I think it was basically a racing incident where Max got a bit too aggressive. The stewards obviously went over all the available data and that's the conclusion they came to. The same holds for the Silverstone crash. Red Bull's reaction to the Silverstone one was silly, but their frustration was understandable. Time to move on from both incidents, that's what's going to happen when you have two drivers in closely matched cars.
Bez
Full MemberYeah, if you watch the onboard, his steering inputs are fine for a wide radius on the first Retifilio and a very tight line on the second. Nothing wrong with his line through there in terms of making the corner, the only fly in the ointment is the fact that Hamilton is in the Retifilio too and is ahead of him throughout the chicane. Single frames rarely tell a fair story of an incident.
Yeah but Max wasn't ever making the second corner without running massively wide on the exit and into Hamilton. He stayed on that line instead of using the run off absolutely knowing there would be contact.
As Brad explains a lot better than I can @ 17:08 on in this
MV also knew that any grid penalty from the incident would be wiped out by the engine penalty…….
Yeah but Max wasn’t ever making the second corner without running massively wide on the exit and into Hamilton
Rookie error - he just needs to go on the inside knowing fine well it’s a dirty piece of track with hardly any grip. Extra points for making it a really high speed one 😉
That's why the stewards said that Verstappen was predominantly at fault and gave him a penalty. At Silverstone, Hamilton got a penalty that was effectively meaningless. This time, Verstappen gets a penalty that is effectively meaningless, but that's because Bottas screwed up and Verstappen's engine was damaged. Without that, he wouldn't need that engine change, but it's just how things go sometimes. Time to move on, nobody's going to change their mind based on rewatching YouTube videos.
Any one else getting an advert for 'Mad Max Fury Road' gambling on this thread (genuinely!)? 😆
Any one else getting an advert for ‘Mad Max Fury Road’ gambling on this thread (genuinely!)?
No, just the usual lingerie ads.
There was an article on msn earlier- gist being Marko thinks Lewis' injury is spurious. Best bit, they spelt his name Helmet!!
Disappeared before I could get a screen grab (not that I'd be able to post an image here!)
Lewis Helmet-on?
Something like… (with apologies to cricket commentary)
The two championship contenders - Max Verstappen Lewis Helmet-on
Pretend to be Murray Walker saying it
(sorry)
Vettel and Stroll confirmed at Aston next year. Guess that's just Gio's seat left up for grabs?
Odd that Mick Schumacher hasn't been offered the second Alfa seat, I wonder why? Someone like De Vryes or Illot (no idea of spelling) would probably jump at a Haas seat