The other thing to factor in about the safety car and Mercs decision making was that only a week before they double stacked both cars under the SC, lost track position and then the race was red flagged giving Max a free tyre change and track position. I imagine they may have thought that if there would be anymore racing then there was a possibility it'd be a red flag and reset tyres type of event rather than a completely unknown break the rules and let them race for one lap type mess.
Let’s face it, it wasn’t ‘planned’ or ‘deliberately decided’ for Max to beat Lewis. Masi made a mistake under an immense - IMMENSE - amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it. As I can sometimes do in my day job!
The FIA can’t exactly say “Max is champion but not really as we cocked up, sorry Lewis”, they’re trying to be professional about the whole thing.
Fed up of reading all the BS about it online.
Let’s face it, it wasn’t ‘planned’ or ‘deliberately decided’ for Max to beat Lewis. Masi made a mistake under an immense – IMMENSE – amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it. As I can sometimes do in my day job!
The FIA can’t exactly say “Max is champion but not really as we cocked up, sorry Lewis”, they’re trying to be professional about the whole thing.
I agree, except that the purpose of protocols is to give people a clear guide on what to do in emergencies so they don't make mistakes under pressure. Safety car protocols are, by definition, a safety issue so there is really no justification for ignoring them in a panicked rush to have one more greeen-flag lap. With hindsight, a protocol that a safety car in the final 5 laps (or 10 laps, or whatever) automatically triggers a red flag might be the way to go, but the race director panicking and cocking up the safety car protocol is pretty poor.
Fed up of reading all the BS about it online.
We don't care, so stop reading it or bugger off. This is a discussion about what happened and why.
This is a discussion about what happened and why.
Masi made a mistake under an immense – IMMENSE – amount of pressure by deciding about 30s too late, and panicked and tried to recover it.
What I hadn't really appreciated (and I may be off the mark, feel free to correct me) is that Masi's role as race director is for the FIA, who are in charge of safety. 'Formula 1' the company are a different enterprise who have an interest in promoting and encouraging exciting racing. It's not supposed to be Masi's job to make the racing more spicy, yet that's exactly what he attempted to do, and ultimately it ended in farce.
It makes you wonder how much the safety people and the entertainment people were colluding, and how much they should be.
It makes you wonder how much the safety people and the entertainment people were colluding, and how much they should be.
They're like conjoined twins as in, one can't exist without the other. In some cases, it's an unhealthy dependency.
Oh, and apols if my last post up there ^ sounds a bit blunt. It does on rereading and wasn't intended to offend.
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The FIA have a commercial interest in F1 under the concord agreement that was negotiated by Bernie back in the day, so it's in their interests to have exciting racing and they obviously work closely with the rights holders (Liberty) to make sure that happens, also I think some of the teams have a similar agreement that represents their interests.
Oh, and apols if my last post up there ^ sounds a bit blunt.
It sounded blunter than a particularly unsharp house brick, but it made me chuckle 🙂
for a few minutes the ref only lets the losing team score
for a few minutes the ref only lets the losing team score
He's left out the bit about removing the cars between Lewis and Max....but only the cars between Lewis and Max
In years to come that's the bit that's going to leave people scratching their heads and saying 'seriously?! really?!?!?'
Well, thank God that year's over and the shambles in Abu Dhabi is all forgotten about.
Not quite!...
The Christmas break is almost done and I can't be the only one who couldn't bring themselves to watch any of the F1 season reviews. Those last few laps devalued not just that race but the rest of the season for me.
Eagerly awaiting car launches and testing now so I can move on! 🙂
I'm eagerly awaiting the next Drive to Survive. Can't wait to see how they manipulatively edit it to insert some bogus drama into it all.
I haven't watched any F1 since the final race. That got turned off after the sham of a final lap and I haven't felt any desire to watch the season reviews. Still undecided if I am going to bother watching this year, what's the point when it like WWF.
Aye not for me. I've been following it for ~30 years but no more.
I'll carry on watching it but only when it suits or on catch-up, certainly won't pay to view anymore.
Won't let it get in the way of riding my bike again.
Probably won't go to anymore races
Same here. 40 is years of following F1 but no interest now. I'm not particularly even a Hamilton fan, more Mclaren but the rule breaking manipulation of that last lap, then failure of the FIA to address it means I can't take it seriously.
I'm waiting to see what (if anything) changes in the aftermath of the Abu Dhabi fiasco. The FIA have the chance to look at the big picture which started ages ago (even in the Charlie days, remember Seb having a sweary rant after a certain Mr verstappen pulled a dodgy move) and making some decisive changes about track limits, passing, weaving, brake testing and even general driver and team conduct. Maybe they can clear up a lot of the ifs and buts, make stewarding more consistent and have a better system of penalties. And, possibly just as likely, maybe Massivespin will stick the Haas on pole at the first race...
I think it's a bit rich for people to complain that the end of the last race was contrived. So many rule changes over the last 10 years or so have been designed just to roll the dice and take away a well built up lead. Safety cars, VSC, DRS, Starting on your Q2 tyre, Mandatory use of 2 tyre compounds, Changing tyres under red flag. It's like playing snakes and ladders.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.
It’s like playing snakes and ladders
Yes but they don’t change the location of the snakes and ladders, not the number of sides of the dice during the game.
Bad luck under the safety car, Is exactly that.
Changing the rules during the safety car, to get a 'racing' last lap?
It's the definition of contrived.
Explain how it isn't?
What they said ^
As long as any contrivance is set out before the race, everyone knows what it is and how it works, then fairs fair. Sometimes you benefit, sometimes the other guy does.
Changing rules mid-race is a different thing entirely
Same goes for changing the rules mid race for some of the competitors, but not others. As in allowing the cars between Lewis and Max unlap themselves, but all the others cannot.
Yup. If Latifi's crash had happened with 10 laps to go, Max changed tyres and Lewis didn't, the rules were followed and Max won then fine.
But Mercedes made their decision based on the rules. Then Massi unilaterally changed the rules to give Max the win.
Then the stewards agreed that Massi could change the rules whenever he wanted.
That's why it's pointless now. You fight like crazy for 10 months but whether you win or lose is decided by the whim of one official.
And that's before you get into the inconsistencies of whether or not it's OK to send it up the inside to overtake even if that means you can't make the corner yourself. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes you give back the position, sometimes it's a penalty. Even the drivers don't know what's allowed and what isn't.
Pointless.
The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:
1. The undramatic way - finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way - red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.
#2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.
The two ways to end it PROPERLY were:
1. The undramatic way – finish under the safety car. Precedent in France.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.#2 would NOT have been done at any other race, they would have simply finished under the SC.
Well or 3, bring the SC in on the last lap but not allow cars to unlap themselves. Would have been annoying but at least in line the rules as we know them.
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go and there could have been worse ones.
Eg?
I ouldn't even watch SPOTY because I knew they'd cover it.
There was never going to be a straightforward outcome once Latifi crashed with 5 laps to go
They literally have a rule-book to tell them what to do when a drivers crashes. It's the very definition of straightforward, it couldn't be clearer.
2. The dramatic (and slightly contrived) way – red flag with 5 laps to go, everyone gets a change of tyres, everyone starts in the correct position, everyone gets a fair shot and we have FIVE laps of racing to determine the title. Precedent in Saudi Arabia.
Baku.
That one went against Hamilton too but no protest from him or Mercedes or the fans or anyone, because the rules were followed.
I'm with boriselbus, not sure if I can be arsed to invest my time in something that's decided on a whim
I didn't say there couldn't be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.
Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don't think so.
I didn’t say there couldn’t be a straightforward outcome I said there was never going to be one.
Sure there was - follow the rules, job done. That's happened before, you know (71 times).
Finishing the season behind the safety car? I don’t think so.
Why do you not think so?
Special treatment is also present in other sports...
"Organisers said the defending champion had not been given special treatment."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.
or 4, allow all cars to unlap themselves.
True, although that would have resulted in 1 due to lack of time/laps remaining.
This is the whole problem right there. Masi missed the opportunity to call a red flag with 5 laps left to go. Having missed that chance, there wasn't enough time to clean up the mess and follow the normal safety-car protocol and have a green-flag finish. The rules state that "any" lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves and that the safety car will be called in one lap after the final lapped car has unlapped itself. If that protocol had been followed, the race would have finished behind the safety car. Masi seems to have panicked and decided to just get the lapped cars out of Verstappen's way and then call in the safety car as the only way to finish under a green flag. The FIA is dodging the issue, apparently the Race Director has discretion to change safety car protocol as he deems necessary.
The rules state that “any” lapped cars must be allowed to unlap themselves
Any decent lawyer sees that "any" there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is. Does that any mean All? Some? Some of time? at the RD discretion? what exactly?
It's why Masi is still in his job.
Any decent lawyer sees that “any” there and calls it out for the ambiguity that it clearly is
In that case, "any" unambiguously means "all" to a court. For example, if a law states that "any person found in possession of X is liable to a term of imprisonment...", it means all people, not some people. If it mean some people then it would have to mean no people or else the penalty would be completely arbitrary depending on the whim of the judge on that day.
Easy way to solve it, if there is any incident that is deemed worthy of a full safety car (not VSC) in the last 5 laps, then throw a red flag. All drivers can change tyres and they have the remaining lap/s from a standing restart like we had in Baku. It avoids the need for a rash reaction to better the "show" and everyone knows where they stand. Yes, it's still harsh if you loose a huge lead and then loose the race like Lewis did, but at least they're all fighting on the same terms.
