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[Closed] F1 2021 - spoilers here

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Bernie’s had his fingers in your pie

Eeewwww 🤢

What's that a reference to? Missed that story


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 8:14 pm
 Bez
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Ah, the man who spent many years running F1 with the son of Britain’s most famous fascist… nothing unexpected (and to be fair, Bernie has always had this view of knighthoods), but it’s not a great look for the sport.

https://twitter.com/scobie/status/1471922231911591951?s=21


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 8:29 pm
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Those grapes appear somewhat sour.


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 8:37 pm
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Article 6.6 of F1’s Sporting Regulations states: “The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony.”

Doesn't say which Championship though 🙂 'The' Championship could be any if you fail to apply any context to any previous statements, clauses, or decide to interpret the rules in a different manner to previously or consider the conduct of the past 50 previous iterations of the same event 🙂 Easy get out I would think, and I assume Merc would just say it's a 'misunderstanding' by the FIA.


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 9:48 pm
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Article 6.6 of F1’s Sporting Regulations states

But I’m with you on making every effort to work it up the FIA


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:01 pm
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But I’m with you on making every effort to work it up the FIA

Posted 4 minutes ago

I assume in reality at some point in the regulations it will clarify that the term 'the championship' means 'the F1 championship' but as I say, ignoring everything else in the regs, as the FIA/stewards/race director have in their interpretation, then we have 'the' meaning 'any' championship, and applying further knowledge we have gained, we also know that 'any' doesn't mean 'all'. Confusing myself now 🙂


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:09 pm
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It says F1 in what you quoted 😀


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:20 pm
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It probably defines the championship, but maybe it doesn't say which annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony? 🙂


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:20 pm
 Bez
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Doesn’t define the year of the championship, does it? Let’s assume it means 2013 🙂


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:27 pm
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Doesn’t define the year of the championship, does it? Let’s assume it means 2013 🙂

Likes 👍


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:34 pm
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1.2 These Sporting Regulations apply to the whole calendar year referred to in the title, and to the
Championship taking place within that calendar year (“the Championship”). Any changes made
by the FIA for safety reasons may come into effect without notice or delay


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:43 pm
 grum
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Doesn't he say there both can and can't be forgiveness? Clear as mud.


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:51 pm
 Bez
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“I will forgive anything. But Christian has told me that doesn’t mean I will forgive all the things.”


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 10:58 pm
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That rainbow helmet has come back to haunt Lewis...


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 11:01 pm
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Mercedes have trapped the FIA into saying 'rules are rules' and will quote that back to them in the context of Masi not following them.


 
Posted : 17/12/2021 11:04 pm
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The rules can be open to interpretation but Masi is on record earlier this year saying All cars should unlap themselves under safety car, opposing the word "any" that is stated in the rules, so he knows full well he broke his own interpretation/understanding of the rules, the race would have then finished under safety car.
Hamilton would have been better off behind Verstappen on new rubber instead of being a total sitting duck.


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 11:57 am
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Interesting listening to the conversations of the drivers and pit walls of the affected cars. It's clear that everybody 1. understands the rules are being changed on the fly, and that 2. lots of the drivers are really clear that it's being manipulated (not just Hamilton)

I'll not say that he has to go, but I don't see how Masi can stay in his job frankly, I doubt the teams or drivers have either respect of confidence left.


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 12:30 pm
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The key thing is whether they need to protect Masi because, if they throw him under the bus, he is likely to say that conversations with FIA higher-ups about delivering an entertaining conclusion to the season influenced his decision-making during the race.


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 12:37 pm
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Interesting listening to the conversations of the drivers and pit walls of the affected cars. 

It's really interesting hearing this stuff. I wonder how it came to ve released?


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 12:49 pm
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You can get access to team radio on the F1 app and a few other providers round the world so there's a hardcore group who record all of these then make YouTube videos of them after each race.


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 1:07 pm
 Bez
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Most of the meaty snippets have been publicised already, though hearing more of it was interesting, particularly Sainz. Perhaps the greatest insight from that is that it seems from several pit walls that they were first told that all cars could overtake, then immediately told that none could overtake, before—as we well know—then being told that only four could overtake. That first call, if it happened, hadn’t been apparent from any previous reports.

Sounds like an absolute hot mess and you can see why, if Lewis reckoned the safety car was going slower than usual, it would look pretty manipulated from his cockpit.

Kind of surprised we haven’t heard more from Ferrari and Sainz, but I guess it didn’t affect their championship position and they’re happy to sit back and let Mercedes take on the FIA.


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 2:20 pm
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Ricciardo has it-

"I'm glad I'm not a part of that, whatever just happened, seemed pretty ****ed up"

I've always liked Ricciardo but right now the guy is absolutely stellar in my estimations


 
Posted : 18/12/2021 3:14 pm
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Hmmm, Mazepin not top of the list.

https://twitter.com/formularacers_/status/1472880737972015104


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 12:44 pm
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Hmmm, Mazepin not top of the list.

Wasn’t going quick enough to cause any real damage I assume.

I’m all seriousness he spun off loads at the start of the year but only clipped things, probably didn’t cost a lot in repairs


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:15 pm
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Kind of surprised we haven’t heard more from Ferrari and Sainz

I'm not totally surprised, F1 can be very murky indeed and Ferrari are still recovering from their last secret deal with the FIA.

I still can't get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are, especially as Max hadn't lapped the cars between him and Lewis. Only Lewis had.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:30 pm
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I still can’t get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are.

I agree. As the dust has settled the whole thing has looked even more ridiculous, not less


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:45 pm
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I honestly thought that with the more objective opinion you get when tine has put some distance between you and the event that Masi's actions would look more forgivable, but the more you look at the detail (like only unlapping the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen, but leaving all the cars between Verstappen and the rest of the pack in place) the more angry it makes me


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 1:49 pm
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The FIA have just appointed a new Boss, It's an ideal opportunity for "new Broom" time, it's literally fault free. The press and fans will support it, you get to look like you're taking action against the uncertainty of decision making that clouded the 2021 season. You can either shuffle Masi quietly sideways or upstairs for a year or so and let him "find a new challenge" and walk away so it doesn't look like you've fired him. Congratulate max heartily, commiserate with the Mercedes team...

Everyone's a winner and gets to feel vindicated.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:12 pm
 Bez
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I still can’t get my head around what happened and how stupid the FIA think folks are, especially as Max hadn’t lapped the cars between him and Lewis. Only Lewis had.

To be fair, that specific aspect is normal: under an SC all cars that have been lapped (by the leader) are normally unlapped.

The unusual bit* was choosing to do it for only a very specific selection of the field, giving Max a free run on Lewis without having to cover off Sainz from behind. No matter whether you do or don’t accept that the SC rules will inherently work out worse for some people than others, that’s a highly partisan and suspect decision.

Anyway, we’re kind of raking over the coals… but the current silence from the FIA and the teams is becoming deafening.

* or at least one of them: add to that the SC being brought in a lap earlier than usual and the original (or possibly second of three) instruction not to unlap (which, whilst clearly allowed for in the regulations, is not something I recall having happened before).


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:25 pm
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Hamilton would have been better off behind Verstappen on new rubber instead of being a total sitting duck.

That's true, and if Mercedes had been told at the start of the safety car what the situation with the lapped cars would be, they'd probably have boxed Lewis. Depending whether Max then pitted too, Lewis would either have been ahead, with both on new tyres, or behind, with new tyres while Max's had a few laps on them.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 2:39 pm
 Bez
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But if the race had finished under SC then pitting Lewis would have lost the championship, guaranteed: Max would have stayed out. And surely, given that normal procedure is to release lapped cars and then do one more lap under SC, that’s what they would have banked on.

I forget how far back Checo was when Latifi crashed, but had he been inside Hamilton’s pit window then boxing would have basically guaranteed a loss even with a lap or two of racing at the end.

Merc had no options. Once the SC was called they had no control: either it finished under Sc and they won or it finished as a race and they lost. Their only choice was to stay out and risk having to defend; they had a fighting chance had the traffic been held in place, but their already slim chances of being able to do so with the traffic cleared tanked when Masi chose to leave some lapped cars covering Max’s arse.

You can draw up a table of options for Mercedes at the point where the SC is called: two columns (box, don’t box) and a number of rows (SC runs to the end; race restarts with lapped cars cleared; race restarts with lapped cars in position), and then fill in the chance of a race win in each of the boxes, given that Max could and almost certainly would do the opposite to Lewis in each case. The only one that looks better than “bugger all” is the “don’t box, SC runs to the end” one.

Importantly, I don’t think they’d have even thought to add a row in that table for “race restarts a lap earlier than defined in 48.12 with no traffic between Max and Lewis, but traffic between Max and Carlos”. They were screwed in pretty much all scenarios, but that just made double sure of it and then twisted the knife. At the time Masi made his late call, he (and everyone watching) had all the information to know that he was signing off a 99.9% certain win for Max.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:37 pm
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I forget how far back Checo was when Latifi crashed, but had he been inside Hamilton’s pit window then boxing would have basically guaranteed a loss even with a lap or two of racing at the end.

If only Bottas had been within 10secs of Max, rather than fighting the Alpha Tauris


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:41 pm
 Bez
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Yeah, if Bottas was within even 20 seconds of Max when the SC call dropped then at least the last lap would have been fought on equal terms instead of Max having fresh softs. I’m not sure how much it would have affected Max’s earlier stop given how easily he’s got past Bottas earlier in the year.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:47 pm
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If only Bottas had been with 10secs of Max, rather than fighting the Alpha Tauris vaguely useful/George Russell (maybe)


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:50 pm
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. I’m not sure how much it would have affected Max’s earlier stop given how easily he’s got past Bottas earlier in the year.

Again, Checo.
.
It's odd, I remember Checo having a much better year than VB and yet VB beat him in the championship.
I think VB does suffer a lot from being compared to the GOAT but this year really wasn't his best, just when he was needed most


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 3:56 pm
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Has he really ever been a 'team player' - I'm not sure sure.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:01 pm
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I think VB does suffer a lot from being compared to the GOAT but this year really wasn’t his best, just when he was needed most

It really highlights just how good Rosberg was. Hamilton has consistently been faster than his teammates, yes he had a bit of a challenge from Button but I think Hamilton wasn't at his best then.

Both Max and Lewis often ****ed off down the road, leaving their teammates looking distinctly mid pack.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:10 pm
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No, but that didn't matter before.
2019 for example, he was fighting for the title himself, and for the first half dozen races, making a good attempt at it. He didn't need to help Lewis, quite the opposite in fact.
I genuinely don't think Merc mind which of their drivers win, as long as it's one of them. Its just a problem this year when it's a choice between a particular one of their drivers or one from another team, then they need a decent number two who will play the team game.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 4:11 pm
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Unfortunately, for Max, this will always be the championship that was gifted to him via wonky backroom shenninagins at the expense of Lewis Hamilton. Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:52 pm
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Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has

Like Schumacher? Although, TBF that was his own doing, and 97 really didn't help, whereas I don't think we can blame Max for this cock-up. But yes, even if it wasn't his fault that is still how this championship will be remembered.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 5:59 pm
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Unfortunately, for Max, this will always be the championship that was gifted to him via wonky backroom shenninagins at the expense of Lewis Hamilton. Hopefully, for him, he wins the multiple titles that we are all expecting him too, so that it can be referred to as a shaky start that was bolstered by further wins rather than the really stinky turd of a win that he currently has

Agreed, though I suspect Max won't give a toss about how he got this year's championship


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 6:04 pm
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I suspect Max won’t give a toss about how he got this year’s championship

He's already ready told us it won't change anything and doesn't give a toss about winning it so what's he now making all the fuss about...?


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 7:11 pm
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This will be all dependent on if max goes on to win the championship again. If he does this will blow over. If this is his only title then it will always look shaky


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 7:33 pm
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He won’t care about how it was won. But he will care about other’s perception of how he won it.


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 7:50 pm
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Yep, unfortunately it will never look like anything other than what it was- the FIA intervened to stop Hamilton from winning and hand it to Verstappen. Such a shame for all involved really


 
Posted : 20/12/2021 8:01 pm
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