thols2
Free Member
No, just like the McLaren isn’t a Norris specific design or the Merc isn’t a Hamilton specific design. The engineers work on making the fastest possible car. Those top cars are very difficult to drive, the drivers have to be able to adapt to the car. Verstappen, Hamilton, Norris, Leclerc, Sainz, Alonso, and Russell seem to be able to adjust themselves to the demands of the car. Perez, Ricciardo, Gasly, Albon, Bottas, etc. seem to struggle with this. It’s not that the engineers have designed the car for a specific driver, it’s that the very best drivers can get the best out of difficult cars.
That's basically the complete opposite of anything I've ever heard
I don’t know if it’s fair to say the rake on Max’s car is similar to that which gave Seb four titles at Redbull and whether it handles similarly.
From what I remember, Vettel really mastered the blown diffuser. I think it took confidence in having grip to get on the throttle early in the corner exit and that gave a boost all the way down the next straight, that need stable rear grip. Max seems really comfortable with an unstable rear. That's allowed Red Bull to design a car that has a good balance of drag versus downforce, but is really difficult to drive on the limit. I think the current Red Bull is completely the opposite to what Vettel won his titles in, that's why nobody else seems able to drive it.
That’s basically the complete opposite of anything I’ve ever heard
Would you care to explain in detail what it is that you've heard?
It’s not that the engineers have designed the car for a specific driver,
No, the idea that a company investing several hundred million pounds per year in an F1 outfit would not design a car around a driver they are paying upwards of $50m a year is crackers. You may have guessed I'm referring specifically to Mercedes here due to the numbers, Lewis is a sure shot and it's a given that they would design a car to what his driving style requires and the second driver can just suck it up.
it’s that the very best drivers can get the best out of difficult cars
This much is a given
With a Group B/A rally driver dad as both nature and nurture, Sainz ought to be able to drive anything on anything.
I read an interesting piece about Alonso where he said that he does all his speed-grip-feeling through steering wheel feedback to his hands. Without a powered steering wheel system that allows him to do this, he's essentially "blind" through a corner. It took the Alpine team slightly longer than they expected to get this right. See how his results suddenly improved half way through the season when they gave him a car he could feel properly/drive at the limit in the corner.
It's not so much that he prefers understeer or a back end that steps out, what he needs is to be able to feel what's happening, then he can drive it.
Pato O'Ward seems to like how F1 cars drive!... 🙂
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/oward-addictive-first-test-mclaren-abu-dhabi/6884959/
Good job Marko’s not a strategist:
“Marko said he "understood" why Mercedes were "unhappy". But he said: "What I don't understand: they had also the ability also to go to the pits. They didn't. So it was their mistake."
Stick to the day job, eh, Helmut. The day job mostly being a massive ****ing hypocrite:
Marko added: "And [for Mercedes] to influence Michael Masi, the race director, not to give a safety car…”
Remind me who said to Masi, “We just need one racing lap…” after which he changed his decision? 🤦
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59649304
The man really is a prize bell end, even by F1 standards.
Only because I’m sat here waiting for so. To finish swimming…
Anyone looked at the lap times of the safety car between 1st and 2nd times it was deployed? Ham was complaining a bit about its pace, just wondered if it added to conspiracy if times showed it was definitely slower so they had more time to clear Latifi and get that last lap in.
Anyone looked at the lap times of the safety car between 1st and 2nd times it was deployed?
Possibly overthkniing it, wasn't the first one a VSC and the second one a full SC?
So, when do we think Mercedes will make their announcement re: appeal? Will they leave it until the last minute for maximum media coverage?
Well the time limit runs out after the Prizegiving Gala starts so my guess would be an hour or two before that. Should make every question thrown at Verstappen about it instead of how it feels to be given the trophy.
Doesn't Hamilton have to be there too to hand the trophy over? That could be interesting.
Lewis has so far been a gentleman and shown great character. I’m sure he’ll be there and hand Max the trophy in a sporting way. Not sure there will be many words said between them though.
Nice piece here...
And here
Lewis will hand over the trophy no doubt about it assuming Merc don't continue with the appeal. If they do continue then would handing over the trophy prejudice their position?
Maybe they are waiting to gauge public reaction. They must be in two minds about it, nobody wants to look like a sore loser but what happened on Sunday was such a joke it would be for the benefit of the sport to kick up a fuss, if only to push the FIA into making some much needed changes
Ultimately, Max won the race under the rules as they were applied by the official governing the race. For that reason he deserves to keep the championship title.
However, Mercedes, Ferrari, and the other teams affected, have a very good case to argue the rules were improperly applied, to the detriment of their race.
That IMHO is what Mercedes should appeal, stating they don’t want the outcome of the championship altered, but want a public acknowledgment from the FIA that mistakes were made, and the rules are amended to ensure it cannot happen again.
Well the time limit runs out after the Prizegiving Gala starts so my guess would be an hour or two before that. Should make every question thrown at Verstappen about it instead of how it feels to be given the trophy.
Which would make Merc look petty in the extreme.
Merc have a very expensive lawyer working on it. Any good lawyer will use all the available time to review things and decide how to proceed. I expect Merc will announce whether they intend to appeal a few minutes before the deadline.
There will also be the might of the Mercedes marketing department working out which scenario is best for them.
a) Evil corporate car company stealing F1 title from Max.
b) Sportsmanlike, good losers and get loads of positive press coverage.
Which would make Merc look petty in the extreme.
They can't do that - it's Red Bull's MO! 🙂
I’ve just had a, frankly brilliant, idea to amend the sprint race format.
Have the regular race then add on (random number, between 1-10) laps for just the top two in the title race, with 2nd place getting to spin a one armed bandit for what advantages they get over 1st place in those laps. Points only awarded if 2nd place beats 1st.
Would keep the title race spicy, eh?
There will also be the might of the Mercedes marketing department working out which scenario is best for them.
I can't see them reversing the result of the WDC. Maybe an acknowledgement from the FIA / compensation (behind closed doors). To a point, Mercedes have to be careful about undermining the sport, lest their recent dominance seem less impressive. Meanwhile, all this publicity has no doubt been great for the teams / sponsors - The FIA can be the 'bad guy' while RB/Merc rake in a few extra dollars. I suspect the prize money pales in comparison and Merc already have the higher value WCC prize, so while RB have had a massive win here, Merc are also benefitting from the controversy (financially and reputationally).
The only person it really affected negatively is Lewis and his legacy and he's been a great sport about it all so far (Outwardly, at least).
with 2nd place getting to spin a one armed bandit for what advantages they get over 1st place in those laps.
Red shells? Banana skins?
Stable doors slamming shut
I ain’t clickin’ no Daily Mail link
That's half the issue - at least now team managers can't try to influence the race directors decisions.
But that doesn't help if the race director is altering the rules on the fly with at least one eye on "the show"
I honestly don't think Masi would've had the "one racing lap" if Horner hadn't been on the blower so I'm glad they're hopefully doing away with it. Toto's moaning earlier in the race was awful too.
thols2
Free MemberMerc have a very expensive lawyer working on it. Any good lawyer will use all the available time to review things and decide how to proceed. I expect Merc will announce whether they intend to appeal a few minutes before the deadline
Any good lawyer should also be acting in their clients best interests. In this case that wouldn’t involve going for the high-drama last minute announcement
Unless that's in their client's best interests, of course.
Indeed, but this isn’t really about the race team now. The Mercedes PR engine (BIG Mercedes rather than Mercedes F1) won’t want to come out of this looking like the corporate monsters. Remember a few pages back when everyone was saying how amazing it was that Mercedes were somehow (well, courtesy of Red Bill’s behaviour) now looking like the underdog?
That’s half the issue – at least now team managers can’t try to influence the race directors decisions.
Binotto - "Does any team principal mean all team principals?"
His position does seem pretty untenable now. I've seen a few bits on Twitter about getting Eduardo Freitas in as F1 race director. I don't know too much about him, other than he is the RD for WEC with a zero tolerance for bullshit.
Lewis will hand over the trophy no doubt about it
Whilst wearing his newly acquired gong from HM."Here you go Max, I've got seven of those and now one of these. Oh and it's SIR Lewis".
If Masi loses his job, how on earth can the FIA allow the results of the last race to stand - sacking him is a total admission that what he did wasn't right.
If Masi loses his job, how on earth can the FIA allow the results of the last race to stand – sacking him is a total admission that what he did wasn’t right.
Could be some behind the scenes negotiations with Merc et al along the lines of what others have suggested here. A quiet word with the FIA that they will drop any formal appeal against the race result, nod and smile and hand Max his trophy etc but on the understanding that Masi goes and the rules are smartened up?
Masi then goes for personal reasons, to spend more time with his family, more time reading the rule book or whatever and everyone is more or less happy...
Agreed
As Danny says, sneaky enough to do what must be done, leaky enough so that everyone gets a whiff and thinks something stinks
Yeah, it's a way out without admitting up front in public that they were wrong but with everyone knowing that they were wrong and have at least done *something* to resolve it.
Maybe some extra cash bunged at Merc as well by way of an increased Constructor's Championship prize to offset the Driver's Championship loss.
Probably with a few non-disclosure agreements in there too about "thou shalt not say what we did" or how much we paid Masi to bugger off quietly.
If Masi loses his job, how on earth can the FIA allow the results of the last race to stand – sacking him is a total admission that what he did wasn’t right.
Promotion or a sideways move, avoids any issues around recent events.
This won't happen overnight and they now have time to quietly roll something out before the start of next season. It appears the process has already started with the appointment of Peter Bayer as Secretary General for Motorsport who will no doubt have his own ideas for the shape of his team going forward - expect to see more appointments.
It was so clearly a stitch-up that even if Mercedes exhaust (get it?!) every possible option to get it overturned I can't see them ever looking like the bad-guys in this. Being good or bad sports or "professional" is more about how they go about doing what they're going to do rather than what they're going to do imo.
Personally I think if they say, "we think the rules were applied incorrectly, we're taking it to the CAS and we'll say nothing further until they've decided what's what" then that's about as professional as you could ask for.
It was so clearly a stitch-up
Cock-up, not a stitch-up.
Anyway, the timing of the appointment of the new Big Cheese is useful. They’ve got something very visible to get their teeth into from day one.
I think now we just have to sit back and hope Mercedes will maintain their dignity, and trust that the FIA will get its house in order.
Who is going to be the next grande fromage? I had heard that Jean Todt was going but heard anything of who will take over. He wasn't there long was he?
12 years
Shame we can’t bring Max Mosley back. He’d have everyone whipped into line in no time.
Cock-up, not a stitch-up.
Nah, I'm happy with using stitch-up, seems more accurate to me.
