Lewis to me is 8x world champion....sorry Sir Lewis
and trust that the FIA will get its house in order.
ahahahahahahahaha ha ha ha
Shame we can’t bring Max Mosley back. He’d have everyone whipped into line in no time.
👏👏👏
Apparently we are all to blame for questioning what happened and are “tarnishing” f1 and MV’s title. What an utter joke.
I don't quite read it like that. I see it as an (almost) admission they've cocked up and that cock up has tarnished the championship as it has led to people questioning the validity of the result.
I've just edited my post as it maybe open to other interpretation as you mention Danny. On first reading it seemed they were shifting blame but I can see your point now.
I’m with Danny, that’s as close to an admission that there’s been such a bad **** up that it’s devaluing Max’s title.
@dukeduvet - I agree the wording is pretty vague and probably intentionally so and there is an element of trying to shift the focus away from the fact they cocked up and onto those questioning the decision.
But, they wouldn't be implementing all those measures if they thought they hadn't made some pretty serious mistakes.
What a crock of **** that statement is. “Generated significant Misunderstanding”, “detailed analysis and clarification exercise”. BS bingo at it’s best!
"Clarification" for god's sake. The ****ing arrogance of it!
And it's not "the argument" or "misunderstanding" tarnishing anything FIA, it's your own mistake.
So, we've misunderstood. So explain it then!
100% stitch up, worn out hard tyres versus fresh softs with Versappen right up Lewis' butt after a free pit, then only allowing the the cars between them to unlap, safety car going too slow to give time for a lap, Masi being swayed to change his mind by Redbull, Lewis had no option to pit because Max would have ended up infront, Lewis didn't stand a chance. Horner is such a little sht, let them race, let them race, yeah you would say that when the hard earned 12 second gap has vanished and you've got fresh soft tyres from a free pit stop, definitely wouldn't be saying that if the roles reversed. The rules need to change, it's too easy for another team to totally change the outcome by safety car from the back of the field, intentionally or not, and the bunching up under safety car needs changing or the time gaps should be reinstated, and don't allow free pit stops.
That’s as much of an admission of guilt as you’ll get outside of a court case. Mercedes’ barristers now have open season should they choose and I presume that the FIA recognise this. The previous precedent is crushing.
It's going down quite badly in the US, which is a market Liberty is trying to push.
Mercedes’ barristers now have open season should they choose and I presume that the FIA recognise this. The previous precedent is crushing
Sadly I think the legal action may not be to overturn the result but to quit F1 before the 2025 agreement to supply engines.
Hopefully I'm wrong but to there's probably clauses over rules and fair play.
I personally don't want them to overturn the result. It wasn't Maxs fault. It happened, he was positioned well to take advantage and he did.
I want the FIA to apologise properly for the mistake they made.
I want massi out but I can almost forgive him as he was under huge pressure to get the race going from liberty and Horner.
But trying to frame this as a misunderstanding by the fans, I'm absolutely seething.
I've spent literally thousands of pounds and god knows how many hours following this sport, the disrespect for us fans is astounding.
100% stitch up,
I don't think anybody who knows Masi believes this was anything other than a mistake made under extreme pressure. Part of the problem was allowing team bosses to badger him during races, that should never have been allowed. However, he made an enormous **** up that leaves him and the FIA lacking credibility. He should resign and the FIA should acknowledge that safety car protocols need to be made explicit if their aim is to avoid having races finishing behind the safety car. Forcing teams to try and guess what's going to happen just makes them look like amateurs.
I personally don’t want them to overturn the result. It wasn’t Maxs fault. It happened, he was positioned well to take advantage and he did.
I want the FIA to apologise properly for the mistake they made.
I think this is what the majority of people want. Awarding the championship to Hamilton now would make things even worse. I'm pretty sure that Merc know that and they are using this incident as leverage to get changes, not in any serious hope of reversing the race results.
It wasn’t Max’s fault, but it was, at least partially RedBull’s fault. They pressed Masi hard to get the “one lap of racing”. Without this, it wouldn’t have happened. Being stripped of the title for helping to bring the sport into disrepute would be rather fitting.
Being stripped of the title for helping to bring the sport into disrepute would be rather fitting.
It would just bring the sport further into disrepute. Hamilton would never really be able to claim it as a legitimate title, it would just be an embarrassment for everyone.
Sometimes in sports two competitors are so close in performance that it just comes down a bit of luck or favourable conditions that decides who wins. That's what happened here. The refereeing was abysmal, but Max drove superbly through the year and deserves to be a champion. Same goes for Hamilton. Best thing is for Max to keep the title, but the FIA acknowledge that they need to improve the race management.
That’s the thing - Max didn’t drive superbly - he was bloody awful all through the year culminating in the penultimate GP which also put the stewards into the spotlight. Had he not been so much of an aggressive, selfish sod all year, maybe the stewards wouldn’t have felt so pressured to do something. Hamilton made some accidental mistakes in a car that was difficult to drive at the start of the season. The more I think on it, the less I believe that Max and RB are worthy champions. Which was where I started out at at the beginning of the penultimate race.
Controversial driving, controversial lobbying, always whining about Mercedes’ wing, engine, steering but never filing a protest, running dodgy wings which flex, then break, but somehow don’t get punished and get many races to fix them.
They’ve pushed and pushed and pushed - THE RULES, not their capabilities.
Massi showed himself to be unable to do the job in the previous race. Too many buttons to press to communicate with the teams. It should be a broadcast to all from him so all know the communication and no whining on private channels.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that Masi is going to go.
I agree that Max should hold on to the title, trying to give it to someone else would make F1 look even worse
I think that this whole 'Max deserved it' shtick needs to end though. The FIA have been giving Red Bull a massive leg up all season, from the aero changes that hugely benefitted their high rake design philosphy to dropping Hamilton to the back of the grid in Brazil for having a broken wing. And even then they still would have lost if it hadn't been the that ridiculous final lap in Abu Dhabi! I get it, Max drove really well, but so can a bunch of other people, that doesn't mean you should get the WDC handed to you on a silver platter to the detriment of the other guy who actually deserved it. The whole thing's a crooked shambles, it's Senna in '89 all over again
The only potential issue with the FIA making some form of tacit admission/apology is that it would delegitimise Max's title.
The counter to that is that it is clear to even the most ardent RB/Max fan that the race and therefore the title was basically handed to him anyway.
This is why, mistake or something more sinister, the whole thing is a huge mess. And Masi is 90% to blame. But, Toto begged for the safety car not to be deployed under the VSC so did he feel it evened things out by bowing to Horner's without fully running through the possible consequences.
I notice he has stayed silent whereas after Brazil and Saudi he was out defending his and the stewards decisions.
TBH their ****ed. It will either be the title Max won in a 'fixed'* race or the title Lewis won in court.
Neither of these are a good outcome.
.
* perception that it was fixed by some fans, even if the 'fix' was to engineer a show at the finish rather than necessarily for a particular driver to win. Would it have been the same the other way round? Who knows.
The other problem the FIA have is that if they get rid of Masi and make him the scapegoat, then what’s stopping him spilling the beans on the whole thing. Some sort of NDA I suppose.
The title's tarnished no matter what happens now. I'm sure that won't bother Max much as the yes men that surround him will never say so but it'll always be remembered as the one that Hamilton was robbed of.
That’s the thing – Max didn’t drive superbly – he was bloody awful all through the year culminating in the penultimate GP which also put the stewards into the spotlight. Had he not been so much of an aggressive, selfish sod all year, maybe the stewards wouldn’t have felt so pressured to do something.
I think a lot of people agree that Max is too aggressive and steps over the line quite often, but nobody seriously denies that he is incredibly talented and has put in some stunning drives this year. The irony is that if Max just learned to be a bit more patient and collect the points instead of pushing everything to the absolute limit, he would have wrapped up the title quite comfortably. That's what kept Hamilton in contention - he was willing to back out of potential crashes and collect the points. They both drove superbly, Hamilton a bit more intelligently, Verstappen pushing to the limit without looking at the bigger picture. I wish that Hamilton had won the title, but Verstappen is a deserving champion.
Any desire to continue working in motorsport will likely depend on keep his mouth shut, assuming there is even something to tell other than "i ****ed it guys"
then what’s stopping him spilling the beans on the whole thing.
I honestly don't think there's much to spill - it's pretty open that the "let them race" mantra had been agreed and then masi just made some poor decisions under pressure. A lot of his alleged failings for other issues during the year are actually decisions from the race stewards.
Anyhow, MGU-H is gone from 2026 but are VW still interested in joining the grid?
Yeah probably, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there is at least some degree of ‘setting the tone’ for how races are run by others in the FIA.
Lewis was robbed, but I can't blame anything on Max so to take it away from him now would also be iffy, could sharing the title be a possibility, that seems a fair outcome in an ideal world.
Or is it like Highlander.
And that just makes it look even more like a deal is being brokered. And fair play to Lewis, I genuinely think he is prepared to accept what it is and move on and Merc will be content with the constructors and the knowledge that the FIA have conceded they cocked up.
Now, if it were the constructors title with all the money that goes with it and Merc being able to remove Lewis from the action by saying it is a team decision. I am sure that would be different.
Yep, that won't do Lewis any harm. Probably the best outcome for all.
Perhaps Lewis has told Merc he still expects his WC win bonus though. But, yes for sure, his reputation as one of the GOATs is enhanced by this more than it would be than having 8 titles with one of those won in the courts. Indeed the latter may tarnish his image some.
And Merc started their 2022 car a fair while ago so maybe he is quietly confident the 8th will still come. Team orders to Russell that he is No2 until that point and then he can go for it himself?
I'd imagine that with 7 titles and the expectations of at least being in the pointy end for more seasons makes it easier to be a bit more relaxed about losing this one.
I'm truly hoping that Merc properly pwn RB next season! Wasn't the theory earlier this year that RB were putting most of their eggs in this years basket and Merc had started to look towards 2022 and that's why they were a bit slow to start with the new reg's?
@swavis - and Max likes his car set up in a very particular way (hence why his team mates struggle a bit as the fundamental car design aids Max's setup) and that may not be possible to achieve under the new regs.
I see Lewis just received a knighthood to add to his recently earned sainthood. He is the only real winner in this s*** storm.
thegreatape
The other problem the FIA have is that if they get rid of Masi and make him the scapegoat, then what’s stopping him spilling the beans on the whole thing. Some sort of NDA I suppose.
thols2
I think a lot of people agree that Max is too aggressive and steps over the line quite often, but nobody seriously denies that he is incredibly talented and has put in some stunning drives this year. The irony is that if Max just learned to be a bit more patient and collect the points instead of pushing everything to the absolute limit, he would have wrapped up the title quite comfortably. That’s what kept Hamilton in contention – he was willing to back out of potential crashes and collect the points. They both drove superbly, Hamilton a bit more intelligently, Verstappen pushing to the limit without looking at the bigger picture. I wish that Hamilton had won the title, but Verstappen is a deserving champion.
Agreed.
Also he drove (largely) within the rules, as they were being implemented/enforced. It's that last part I have an issue with. If it's not enforced, it's effectively legal.
That’s the thing – Max didn’t drive superbly – he was bloody awful all through the year
Lol no, he drove some amazing races (and qualifying), yes he drove like a dick a few times but then so do most drivers over the course of a season.
I notice he has stayed silent whereas after Brazil and Saudi he was out defending his and the stewards decisions.
I'd say that's more due to the potential legal stuff that may happen this time around
I hope at least Max fans stop booing Lewis at next year's GPs, it's just pathetic
Max likes his car set up in a very particular way (hence why his team mates struggle a bit as the fundamental car design aids Max’s setup) and that may not be possible to achieve under the new regs.
This is a huge misunderstanding of what has happened with Red Bull, Merc, and McLaren. Those cars are all difficult to drive at the limit because the engineers looked at the wind tunnel and track test data and worked towards designing the fastest car they could. They expect top drivers to be able to adapt to the car, they haven't designed the car to suit a particular driver (because you will generally end up with a slower car that way). The Merc is difficult to get into it's optimum operating window, but Hamilton is better able to achieve that then Bottas. The Red Bull has a nervous rear end, but Verstappen has the confidence and reflexes to deal with that. No engineer or driver is going to deliberately make the car nervous, it's just a by-product of how the rear aerodynamics work. I would be very surprised if Max and Lewis didn't adapt very easily to the new cars. If Merc or Red Bull turn out to be off the pace at the start of next year, it will be because the car is not good enough, not because one of those two can't adapt to a car with different characteristics.
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441
Official withdraw of result protest.
Disappointed, in as much as I don't see the FIA doing enough under their own investigation, to give many of us faith in racing rules being applied fairly going forward.
They expect top drivers to be able to adapt to the car, they haven’t designed the car to suit a particular driver (because you will generally end up with a slower car that way). The Merc is difficult to get into it’s optimum operating window, but Hamilton is better able to achieve that then Bottas. The Red Bull has a nervous rear end, but Verstappen has the confidence and reflexes to deal with that.
Yeah but if Max continually gives the feedback that he can go faster if the rear is less nervous then they will work towards that goal. If checo says it, who cares.
Thols, there's a lot you say that I don't agree with, but this is absolutely right
I would be very surprised if Max and Lewis didn’t adapt very easily to the new cars. If Merc or Red Bull turn out to be off the pace at the start of next year, it will be because the car is not good enough, not because one of those two can’t adapt to a car with different characteristics.
Max will (and Lewis too) have a setup preference, but that doesn't mean that he can't adapt and wring the neck of something that doesn't work exactly as he'd hope.
