Yeah agreed that was mind numbingly boring. I don't get to watch a great deal of sport at the weekends, but I sacrificed missing the last couple of Dauphine stages so the missus would let me watch the qualifying and the GP. What a waste.
It just seems a case of the race is now who gets Pole, after that its then who is best at managing their tyres and engines. The drivers know they can't overtake, or even get close enough to overtake, so they sit far enough behind in the clean air and manage their race.
You know it's bad when even the highlights are boring....turned it off & went to bed.
I fell asleep watching the highlights, looks like I didn't miss anything
At what point do the fans finally realise they're paying top dollar to watch a series of procession laps and look for a more interesting form of motorsport?
That was breathtakingly dull. Gutted, I've always got high hopes for Canada!
FFS. I managed to avoid social media and stayed up well past my bedtime to watch the highlights because Canada normally throws up a good race. I fell asleep, then woke up a bit later and everyone was in the same positions!
Also, I can't understand why Channel 4 choose to have Monaco, a known procession with no excitement, live and then Canada, normally a good race which would be on a Sunday evening prime time, with highlights only in the middle of the night!
Would have been nice if someone at the channel had decided to get the highlights over in 5 minutes and then show some old classics instead to fill the time.
So Red Bull have gone with Honda - maybe a deal done out of necessity rather than choice?
Interesting.
I think that it's safe to say that the gap between Honda and Renault has narrowed this year, Honda certainly seems to have solved it's reliability issues.
Perfect fit - Red Bull have always been so supportive of their engine suppliers! 🙂
Renault wanted to to retain Red Bull so I don't think it was out of necessity.
I think that being a works team and not a customer is the major factor.
If they keep Torro Rosso as well they'll have double the amount of pre-season testing time that they did during the Mclaren years too.
That's got to be a big factor with the in-season penalties now.
Yep, that's now double the data for Honda. It's why they tried to do a deal with Sauber to help support engine development. You have to feel a little sorry for McLaren in that they have been through a great deal of pain, but the performance of the MCL32 has come as something of a shock for them.
It's clear that McLaren have fallen a long way behind in chassis/aero development and that like Williams, there's no quick and easy fix. I wouldn't bet against Boullier and Zac Brown being restructured out by the end of summer.
Meanwhile, will Ricciardo stay with Red Bull Honda or will he jump ship to Ferrari? If he does go, will Sainz or Gasly replace him at Red Bull?
Meanwhile, will Ricciardo stay with Red Bull Honda or will he jump ship to Ferrari? If he does go, will Sainz or Gasly replace him at Red Bull?
Cant imagine Vettel would enjoy having Danny Ric as a teammate again, wonder if he has any kind of veto in his contract.
Renault wanted to to retain Red Bull so I don’t think it was out of necessity
"wanted to retain" is a bit strong. After initially telling RedBull they weren't getting any PUs in 2019 Renault had softened their line (marginally) to being willing to supply them as long as a decision was made by the end of May.
An old story in F1 terms as it dates from April, but the rumour has been rife for some time:
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23312540/daniel-ricciardo-2019-stick-twist
I can't see Ricciardo going to Mercedes, Bottas is a strudy wingman to Hamilton and it's quite obvious that Mercedes have a long term plan around Ocon.
“wanted to retain” is a bit strong
Very fair. Were willing to retain more accurate.
Well, you can see Red Bull's point. The Renault is only the 3rd best engine, which must be frustrating. By switching to Honda, if they're lucky, they might end up with the 3rd best engine. Makes perfect sense.
Well there is no chance RB'll get the merc or fezza engines, and renault have a works team so RB will always be playing second fiddle. Whereas with Honda they'llbe able to lead the direction of development. Remember the success with cold/hot blowing etc they were able to achieve as the top renault team...
If Fernando goes to Indycar in 2019, this will be quite some bookend to his consistent terrible strategic judgement in F1 if Honda represent a step up for Red Bull next year.
Dont see RB Honda doing anything next season, Honda have not produced a good engine in recent F1 history and I don't see a deal with RB changing anything.
Remember the success with cold/hot blowing etc they were able to achieve as the top renault team…
Which is a good argument for staying with Renault.
So no chance of Aston Martin getting someone to build an engine and sticking their badge on it then ?
Was wondering the same thing Trimix - RB were pushing hard for an independent engine supplier post 2021 so either this is a 2 year Honda deal or they've shelved those plans. Rumours were that mclaren were also interested in badging a new engine as their own, but doubt they'll choose to fund it in isolation.
This is a 2 year Honda deal
hols2Remember the success with cold/hot blowing etc they were able to achieve as the top renault team…
Which is a good argument for staying with Renault.
No, I think you missed my point - Renault will be doing everything they can to help their own works team not RedBull who are their direct competitors. Where as RB can direct Honda's development to meet their own needs.
The RB/McLaren plan was always for any new engine to be ready for 2021, as the regulations are to be relaxed to allow for simpler (read considerably cheaper) engines.
It would make absolutely no sense to design and build for the current regs at huge expense when they will be replaced in three years.
Well, that was pretty good. Bit unfair on the penalties front when you consider how much Bottas was affected by the finger pointy one yet again, but then I guess we all know what FIA stands for....
I must have been watching a different race, 'cos I thought it was yet another snore-fest....
I keep watching with false optimism that the next race will be more exciting than the last. I'm actually starting to feel quite pleased that F1 is going to be only on Sky from next year, as it'll mean I'll stop watching for good and will gain back a few hrs every other weekend.
I was so interested in this race and England's match beforehand, that I went for a ride at ~1330. This modern era of F1 is just so dull, but then the rules change by the "think tank" 😆 they made was always going to do this... Wide cars, narrow tracks, soft tyre compounds that last far too long.
I wouldn't have dreamed of doing anything else but watch F1 races live in the past, unless they were at a silly time in the early hours.
Well, that was pretty good.
No, no, it really wasn't. Vettel's overtakes were good (if generally easy) and Kimi rescued his reputation, but otherwise, meh. As stumpy01 says, won't need to watch it from next year. That's a bit sad considering I've followed F1 since the 60s, but I did the same with rallying when that got dull, so hey ho. There are lots of great cycle races to watch.
Each to their own, highlights kept me occupied for an our
The cars are now the same width as they were in 1995-1997 IIRC, I'm not sure that the width of the cars themselves is as much of an issue as the sensitivity to aerodynamics. I'm all for simplifying the aero, maybe using standardised front wing components and dropping bargeboards.
T'was a bit dull. I liked the circuit - I think the retard strips are better than gravel traps as they allow folks to get going again. Plenty of overtaking lower down the field, so quite good.
Another one who found it a bit boring and formulaic, never been a fan of DRS passes. Was great when McLaren came up with the F-duct but now it's just boring.
Not a fan of the retard straps either, no real loss for mistakes but then it keeps more cars on track so swings and roundabouts.
Hopefully the rest of the season will be good as I want to enjoy the last season before it disappears behind the sky pay wall. More riding time next year to look forward to after 25 years of only missing 2 races!
If the race tomorrow is anything like today’s F2 race it should be a belter (kiss of death).
Definitely going to pay more attention to F2 from now on.
I don't really follow F1...
... is Mercedes' tactical nous as non-existent as it seems ?
Aye that was a big error not pitting under the VSC. The other teams had time to prep and execute a double stack so not sure why Merc didn’t pull him in. Apparently the last time Merc double DNF’d was Italy 1955. Bad Sunday for Merc.
BAF - I wa thinking exactly the same after watching the F2 feature race yesterday. It was absolutely incredible! That last corner overtake by Markelov was stunning.
Be interested to see where Louis was when VSC was deployed.
Davidson on Sky Sports 44 reckoned that the VSC flashed up before LH passed the pit entrance but there wasn’t much in it.
Either way it was odds on there’d be a VSC so I’m surprised that Merc didn’t pre-empt it.
nickewen - The commentators come across well too, really enthusiastic like on the super bike stuff which helped.
Not that it really mattered as it was pretty likely that his car would have died whether he pitted or not
I'd like to know how the Ferrari was able to avoid cooking the rear tyres like all the rest did.
</span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Aye that was a big error not pitting under the VSC. The other teams had time to prep and execute a double stack so not sure why Merc didn’t pull him in.
Toto's take on it:
"The VSC came out, we had half a lap to react, and we didn't. Fact. This is where we lost the race.
“At that stage of the race with the VSC, pitting is probably 80% the thing you need to do. With one car out there against two others, the thinking process that happened was, ‘What would happen if the others pitted [only] a car?’.
“We would come out behind Kimi, because they would leave Kimi out, and behind Max. What would that mean for the race?
"That whole thinking loop, I wouldn’t say distracted us, but we spent too much time on that.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-hamilton-strategy-vsc-mistake-austrian-gp-1054515/
Surely they must have some sort of 'live' system which constantly updates itself.
Should we pit if a SC/VSC is called now? What about now? Or now? I would expect this to update every few seconds at the most, do they not have this? How much is human decision making? Humans take time to think, but even a human should be constantly thinking the same? They shouldn't have to work it when it happens, they haven't got time.
But those decisions are contingent on the actions of everyone else - as above if Ferrari and Red Bull hadn't double stopped their cars it would have been a different set of events. A double double stop is a comparatively unusual thing, Mercedes lost out whilst over thinking things.
It's not as simple as "the right time to do it" otherwise there wouldn't be strategists, there's enough data to make decisions on that.
Yes, apparently they were trying to figure out what to do if Ferrari or Red Bull split their strategies and only pitted one car. They only had 20 seconds or so to figure out what to do and screwed up pretty badly.
And then his car died anyway. The point is mute.
You mean you can't hear it?
Like his car?
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">fifo</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">Member</span>
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">And then his car died anyway. The point is mute.</span>
It's not really though is it in the world of continuous improvement, you wouldn't ignore the incident because it was superceded by a bigger problem would you? What if Hammy hadn't broken down, they'd have lost the win.
Sounds like they tried to play everyone else’s race instead of their own, daft error. If timing was an issue then someone should’ve just strapped on a pair using their (ample) race experience.
You mean you can’t hear it?
No, like I understand the difference between “moot” and “mute”, the former actually meaning open for discussion.
Not that his breakdown precludes any investigation over the strategy failure, but ultimately he could have been two laps ahead and he’d still have broken down. The end result is the same.
the problem is the same problem F1 always has, and it's boring to write it I know but...on some tracks, you just can't overtake on track with evenly-matched cars. Hence the race is won or lost in the pits, by accident or design. [and Hamilton blowing up doesn't change that]
I only watch the highlights these days but from what I've seen many of the races - half? - are won or lost by the pit strategy, rather than someone being a faster driver/car, which isn't really what it should be like. Compare that to the recent motogp race at Assen. Now that was racing.
It has always been the same, a cyclical no overtaking/loads of overtaking etc. The latest move to higher aero wide cars is the latest example of the rule makers not understanding things fully. The only way to encourage overtaking is to reduce the aero effect and increase mechanical grip but that would make the cars slower than the LMP1 cars so it's never happened. The same happened in BTCC back in the late 90's when Alfa found a loophole way of adding an aero package to the cars, literally just putting 100 or so spoiler and wing kits in the boot of random cars as they left the production line! As soon as everyone else had done the same they found it harder to follow each other and get ready for overtaking. It also cut down on the contact too as losing a bit of that aero kit was not good for lap times, the same as F1.
Mercedes need to learn from this as they have done the same mistake before, they need to realise that making a decision is almost always better than dithering as that hands the advantage to their competitors. By doing something decisively you make your rivals think about what you've done and that can cause them to do the wrong thing. The chasing cars always have the luxury of extra time to react to what the leader does and as Mercedes are usually in front that means that not making a firm decision, even a poor one, is hurting them time and time again.
they need to realise that making a decision is almost always better than dithering
They did make a decision, which was to not pit under VSC. The problem was that it was the wrong decision.
Still, whatever the decision, Hamilton would have whinged about it.
Imagine the shit fit folk would have if this was F1
Nascar is awesome, but to do that in an F1 car, you'd need to rewrite the technical regulations so that it was no longer F1. The F1 audience would not be interested.
reggiegasketthe problem is the same problem F1 always has, and it’s boring to write it I know but…on some tracks, you just can’t overtake on track with evenly-matched cars. Hence the race is won or lost in the pits, by accident or design. [and Hamilton blowing up doesn’t change that]
I only watch the highlights these days but from what I’ve seen many of the races – half? – are won or lost by the pit strategy, rather than someone being a faster driver/car, which isn’t really what it should be like. Compare that to the recent motogp race at Assen. Now that was racing.
I agree that there is not enough 'natural' (as opposed to DRS/pitlane) overtaking and the regs should be changed to help this, however, it's *always* going to be harder to overtake in a fast, high down-force open wheel racing car with carbon brakes than on a bike. So the overtakes are something special when they happen.
To me watching the timing as somebody pits, come out on fresh tyres, closes the gap, then times it just right to make the move is more exciting than watching two motorbikes easily swap positions 20 times.
One of the examples of this I remember was from when I was 4 years old, watching with my dad. Mansell/Picquet at Silverstone '87. I've watched it countless times since and it's still just as exciting. Think he took 5 seconds out of Piquet in 2 laps, then the dummy and brilliant pass. Superb. That's not to take anything away from motogp, they're just very different sports.
Also the format/length of the races lend themselves very well to strategy, and TBH I like that aspect. Especially when a small team 'outwits' a big front runner.
To paraphrase the film Training Day, F1 is chess not draughts!
I understand that about F1, I really do (the tactical/technical thing). But I suspect you're also being sold short, and over the years you've just become used to nothing much happening on track, so now it's normal for nothing much to happen on track.
[and your example is of Mansell overtaking <span style="text-decoration: underline;">on the track</span>... which is what I'm on about...]
If the grand prix hadn't had tyre blistering issues, or the VSC, would anyone have overtaken anyone else (at the sharp end) on the track?
Yes but you were comparing it to motogp where overtakes are easy and riders can spend a whole race swapping positions back and forth. What I'm saying is that F1 cannot and will not ever be like that. Nor can drivers spend a race banging wheels like in Legend's youtube video (Maldonado excepted).
Also the qualifying format puts the fastest cars at the front. So it's often only when then are things like car faults, tyre blistering, VSC that you end up with cars out of position and therefore in a position to overtake.
Honestly to me this era is not the worst by a long shot, that would be Schumachers (2004ish). He drives off into the distance and wins pretty much every race. Or the Vettel era where again he drives off at the start then manages a 20 second gap the entire race.
Bye bye Boullier
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/boullier-resigns-as-mclaren-s-racing-director-1055781/?s=1
Wow...it's not unexpected - Boullier has been under pressure for some time.
His assertions about "the best chassis on the grid" have become rather stale.
Blimey, no comments about the British GP?
Quite a good race I thought.
Max vs Kimi, bloody good driving round the outside by Max
if the embedded vid ain't doing nuffink, link is http:// streamable.com / bbv6m without the spaces
Yeah decent race, but livened up by the SCs at the end. Don't think there's any Ferrari crash for cash conspiracy going on though. Ham's state ofter the quali lap shows just how much pressure there is to perform even though Joe Public probably thinks he just cruises to poles/wins.
Brilliant, looks like this race could go to the end of the season.
Again Max Verstappen hasn't learned - he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it's much easier to maintain speed if you don't even try to obey the track limits.
DaffyAgain Max Verstappen hasn’t learned – he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it’s much easier to maintain speed if you don’t even try to obey the track limits.
Yep, you're totally right, but I saw a few people doing that through the race, and race control didn't do anything then either. Guess they'd been told they wouldn't be enforcing it strictly.
Also here's Verstappen's spin & retirement (note: uncensored swearing)
Not great. Not sure I can let this slide though...
No, like I understand the difference between “moot” and “mute”, the former actually meaning open for discussion.
Not that his breakdown precludes any investigation over the strategy failure, but ultimately he could have been two laps ahead and he’d still have broken down. The end result is the same.
Moot has multiple definitions:
Adjective:
1. subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty.
2. having little or no practical relevance.
Verb:
1. raise (a question or topic) for discussion; suggest (an idea or possibility).
Mute just means silent/to make silent. So you still meant moot, not mute. Although as said Hamilton's car was indeed mute in Austria. That fact making their poor strategy call moot.
Quite enjoyed Silverstone, obviously nonsense about Ferrari having it in for Merc, that would be astonishingly hard to orchestrate. Good result for Hamilton under the circumstances. Great drive from Bottas early on but he really seemed to pay the price in the latter stages, which is a shame. Not sure it was luck necessarily.
Again Max Verstappen hasn’t learned – he overtook Kimi with four wheels off the track. A great overtake, but it’s much easier to maintain speed if you don’t even try to obey the track limits.
Eh? There were certain corners where virtually every driver was leaving the track entirely, so not really fair to target Max alone, in this regard.
Eh? There were certain corners where virtually every driver was leaving the track entirely, so not really fair to target Max alone, in this regard.
True, but he was the only one to actually overtake someone off the track so targeting Max in this regard seems perfectly legitimate.
True, but he was the only one to actually overtake someone off the track so targeting Max in this regard seems perfectly legitimate.
Penalising him in this instance to me would seem like an even more silly interpretation of the rules.
Drivers, you can go over the markings with your whole car on corners X, Y & Z to reduce your lap time, EVERY LAP. But you can't do the same thing to affect an overtake......because that would be wrong.....erm. OK.
Either you should be able to do it, or you shouldn't. IMO, of course.
Oof, I missed this from Magnussen/Alonso, what a ****
"This video contain content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it from display on this website or application"
njee20
“This video contain content from Formula One Management, who has blocked it from display on this website or application”
Click the text at the top or the Watch On Youtube text to view it on youtube itself. It's some copyright boswollocks from FOM
Since the update there's no way I've found to post the link without the forum embedding the vid.
Hamilton is such a whinging sod though.
Click the text at the top or the Watch On Youtube text to view it on youtube itself. It’s some copyright boswollocks from FOM
Ah, ta. The subtitles are ridiculously annoying, but that's some 'defensive' driving!
Wow! Do yourself a favour and watch the highlights.
The 3 minute ones on YouTube?
when I heard Hamilton was in 14th place, I thought "Oh, race on, this might be interesting" but no... F1 has become so lopsided that he can go from 14th to 6th in 11 laps, why? Because no one actually wants to get in his way lest it hampers their own race to a mid place...
Did you watch it Nickc?
i thought Hamilton really brought something extra to his game today.