[Closed] Explosions heard at Manchester Arena

infidel - Member
CBS are reporting the name of the bomber. US security services releasing more info currently than ours - wonder why? (Genuine question that)

Amber Rudd is apparently not happy that the US leaked the intelligence.

Ms Rudd said: "The British police have been very clear that they want to control the flow of information in order to protect operational integrity, the element of surprise.

"So it is irritating when it gets released from other sources and I have been very clear with our friends that that should not happen again."

Asked whether US conduct had compromised the investigation into the Manchester Arena attack, she said: "I wouldn’t go that far but I can say they are perfectly clear about the situation and that it shouldn’t happen again."

Thanks for sharing Binners. I'm a long way removed over here and I don't think anyone I know was there, but I'm still shaken. It's brought tears to my eyes a lot over the past couple of days. My sincerest condolences for you and your workplace.

It's brought back a lot of memories of the IRA, but at least those ****s had the decency to ring up first.

Binners - I too have shared your friend Jane's artwork. Thank her for me please. I am a former Manchester resident and touching base with Salford colleagues yesterday brought home how close it is for many of us.

So why was this needed?

F***ing religion...

Or did I miss the intended irony?

No irony. Religion is humanity's scourge - the cause of more strife and pain across the ages than anything else under the control of humanity.

Friend on Facebook that is a student at Salford Uni just shared an email that every student there has received. Apparently the attacker was a student at the university.

who gives a shit about him. i dont care who he was, where he came form, where he lived/grew up or studied.
i couldnt care less about him....he doesnt merit anyones thoughts....he's an evil scumbag
we shouldnt be wasting our time on him....if only the media would do this but instead they foolishly give him more column inches on top of the atrocity he is responsible for
as far as i'm concerned they can scoop up whats left of him and put it in a bin somewhere....he doesn't deserve a burial or cremation....let him rot

what we should be doing is concentrating on the victims....celebrate their lives before they were tragically cut short, concentrate on those who were injured and those who survived....
let us celebrate the bravery of the emergency services and the love and generosity of those who helped from the taxi drivers who gave free lifts to the residents who opened up their homes to those who needed them
let us celebrate all that is good that has come from this city and its wider community in how it has tackled and responded to this horror
concentrate on the survivors and the loved ones left behind by those who perished....our thoughts and prayers should be for them

as for the bomber...he can go f*** himself in hell
if theres any divine justice his dick will have been blown off so he wont be able to cash in his claim to his 72 virgins or whatever shit that had been put into his mind by the BS proapganda he took his inspiration from....not that he'll get any in hell

the cause of more strife and pain across the ages than anything else under the control of humanity

Wrong and ignorant. Stop.

I nearly bought a paper today something I have not done since it came out they hacked Milly dowlers phone.

Because I wanted to know more about this man, in a bid to try and understand how some one could do this.

I also want to see faces of the people whose lives he cruely ended. I cried yesterday at the thought of the little girl who died and the mothers pain of not knowing where here daughter was, I hoped she would turn up alive but deep down was thinking the worse, which sadly today was proven to be the case.

Something as simple as going to a concert would have and should have been a wonderful and exciting event for these kids, and the source of precious life long memories for both them and their parents.

It made me reflect on what a wonderful time childhood is and that this was an attack on innocents.

I hope this man is reported matter of factly, nothing more and nothing less as demonising him may appeal to such a person capable of such an act.

I hope this man is reported matter of factly, nothing more and nothing less as demonising him may appeal to such a person capable of such an act.

He was simply a coward, scum, a nobody.

Just had an example of the brave new world of solidarity that this tragedy has brought about.

My scouse mate, and Anfield season ticket holder, has just got in touch to see if I fancy going to the pub tonight to watch the Europa Cup Final? He then announced he'll be supporting United! 😯

Choose love, people! 😀

😀

who gives a shit about him. i dont care who he was, where he came form, where he lived/grew up or studied.

It matters, there was a reason he did what he did, what was that reason, was it those around him, the bigger world. IF you want it to happen again carry on as before. If you want it to not happen again then we all need to understand why. It is not for us to pour over every detail and certainly not for the media to intrude as they do. Yet we all need to understand what led someone to kill themselves and others.

😀 @ binners

Binners, shared the picture on fb, lots of likes, how about selling prints and profits go to charities involved with supporting the kids affected?

Just a thought, tell your colleague thank you for sharing.

On the train this morning there was a group of Muslims talking about this, the kindest point they made about the bomber was "that he was wrong in the head". They went on to discuss the problems of getting through to people like that.

Edit: +1 to mrmo

molgrips - Member 

the cause of more strife and pain across the ages than anything else under the control of humanity

Wrong and ignorant. Stop.

It's an opinion, and one that I somewhat agree with. So much suffering in the name of religion, or the hatred of religion, over thousands of years.

Meanwhile Trump poncing around Jerusalem banging on about evils of religious terrorism in a very place that has spawned so much hatred for each other's religion.

And yes I acknowledge that vast majority of religions condemn the terrorists, and rightly so. Still though, without religion in the first place there would be far less for fanatics/extremists to get so upset and angry about. In my opinion.

Still though, without religion in the first place there would be far less for fanatics/extremists to get so upset and angry about.

I'm pretty sure we'd find something else to fight about. The two largest conflicts in history had little to do with religion.

"There's been a bloody terrorist attack! Quick, put the kettle on!"

Keep calm. Carry on.

When the going gets tough, the tough make tea.

without religion in the first place

I think humans are wired up to create religion of some sort, it's existence is unavoidable. where there is doubt and fear, religion unifies people. unfortunately humans are also wired up to abuse religion and those that blindly follow it.

[quote=binners said]Just had an example of the brave new world of solidarity that this tragedy has brought about.
My scouse mate, and Anfield season ticket holder, has just got in touch to see if I fancy going to the pub tonight to watch the Europa Cup Final? He then announced he'll be supporting United!
Choose love, people!

He'll soon snap out of it.

zokes - Still not a customer 
The two largest conflicts in history had little to do with religion.

Aside from a certain person/group with a hatred for a certain religion, depending if you look at it as a race hate or religious hate. Or both.

Humans are wired to belong to social groups, and I guess inventing religions is one expression of that. Unfortunately, belonging to a group often involves some form of conflict with different groups.

My scouse mate, and Anfield season ticket holder, has just got in touch to see if I fancy going to the pub tonight to watch the Europa Cup Final? He then announced he'll be supporting United!

Genuine 😆

I tip my hat to the gent.

We're in unchartered waters! 😀

Binners, shared the picture on fb, lots of likes, how about selling prints and profits go to charities involved with supporting the kids affected?

Janes picture seems to have taken on a life of its own. Thanks for all the compliments. I'll pass them on. I'll ask her about prints. Thanks for the suggestion twistedpencil

It matters, there was a reason he did what he did, what was that reason, was it those around him, the bigger world. IF you want it to happen again carry on as before. If you want it to not happen again then we all need to understand why. It is not for us to pour over every detail and certainly not for the media to intrude as they do. Yet we all need to understand what led someone to kill themselves and others.

while i do agree with you there thats something that the authorities need to concentrate on...my comment was directed more towards the media

as a community we need to be more cohesive and inclusive with people of all religions, nationalities and races...when we can become tolerent towards each other and demonstrate that we are truly united together under te banner of the human race....people like him and those that inspired him will find it very difficult to find a way in to spread their poisonous hatred

On the train this morning there was a group of Muslims talking about this, the kindest point they made about the bomber was "that he was wrong in the head".

Just heard on the telly that Abedi's ex-school mates described him as "gullible and short-tempered"...

Ideal putty for religious radicalisation.

Still though, without religion in the first place there would be far less for fanatics/extremists to get so upset and angry about. In my opinion.

It's a convenient excuse, without religion they'd find something else to be a bit explody in the name of. Cheese or Eastenders or something.

<mod>
Regardless, as Drac has said, this isn't the time or the place. if you want Yet Another STW Religion Thread, go create it somewhere else.
</mod>

I feel a little guilty in writing this as I cannot imagine how those who were directly involved are feeling, I just hope that they are getting all the support that they need.

I commute via Manchester Victoria every day and I have a little girl who has attended the MEN Arena so this particular attack is close to home. The thought that someone could target innocent children in this way is beyond comprehension.

I hope this attack only strengthens links between all communities.

.my comment was directed more towards the media

Agreed, however the media can't say nothing because it is news, and there is a need for the public to understand why it happened.

as a community we need to be more cohesive and inclusive with people of all religions, nationalities and races...when we can become tolerent towards each other and demonstrate that we are truly united together under te banner of the human race....people like him and those that inspired him will find it very difficult to find a way in to spread their poisonous hatred

Which is why the crap being spouted by some is not helpful, brown, white, christian, muslim, agnostic, for most means nothing. So to single out any group only causes issues. If an individual of any background is an issue then that INDIVIDUAL needs to be dealt with, and needs to be understood. Further, to a large part the INDIVIDUAL isn't really the issue, more the people directly around them are the issue, afterall how many people kill themselves for no reason?

I can't go into detail as her name hasn't been released yet but I've had awful news this morning.

Maty - nothing wrong with relating to it.

Bregante - shit. When you can talk, and if you want to, we'll listen.

What will be the Coroner's verdict on the bomber? "Suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed"?

The bomber was born an ordinary child just like the rest of us but he was probably weak-minded or was being coerced or even blackmailed by whoever set him up with the materials. How do we know his family wasn't being threatened in Libya? Those who brainwashed him and set him up share the blame equally, if not more. Their cynical use of a weak-willed boy is an equally disgusting crime and unfortunately the same people will be lining others up for the same fate.

matydubz - Member 
The thought that someone could target innocent children in this way is beyond comprehension.

This very much ^^^. Baffling.

Doesn't baffle me sadly. I wish it did really.

Killing children has a bigger psychological impact than killing adults.

Softer target, innocents, defenceless, while life in front of them.

If you want to do something really nasty it's the first port of call.

That's a reason not how someone could go ahead and do it. We as all understand the reason why they chose the target.

The bomber was born an ordinary child just like the rest of us but he was probably weak-minded or was being coerced or even blackmailed by whoever set him up with the materials. How do we know his family wasn't being threatened in Libya? Those who brainwashed him and set him up share the blame equally, if not more. Their cynical use of a weak-willed boy is an equally disgusting crime and unfortunately the same people will be lining others up for the same fate

Exactly. Be good to get perspective from the recovering radicalised on how their minds can be changed to think that bombing people is the right thing to do/what God wants etc,.

Exactly. Be good to get perspective from the recovering radicalised on how their minds can be changed to think that bombing people is the right thing to do/what God wants etc,.

On a very slightly different theme, what makes a soldier kill another human being, after all it is their job. Every(?) child learns quite early that hurting others is wrong. Somewhere, somehow people can be "reprogrammed", i would assume that it dependent on the person as too how easy or hard.

I've posted this on UKClimbing but... disaffection is a problem that the mosques have to address; I read an article about a young Englishman who converted to Islam. He was badly disappointed at the content of the Friday sermons; instead of giving guidance on the role of muslims in modern Britain the mullahs harped on about the length of the beard and how much ankle a woman was allowed to show. I have raised this with Sudanese friends but they don't seem capable of taking a broad view of their religion and how it can fit with a modern lifestyle; they just repeat the old mantras. Presumably it's easy to brainwash people who are as gullible and unquestioning as that.

Bombing innocent kids can never be justified, no matter what reasons some people think they may have. I just wish even some of the coverage, scrutiny, mourning and outrage shown in this country was also shown whenever children are needlessly killed by bombs elsewhere around the world, all too often in incidents we as a country are connected to.

Plenty of psychological studies show that it is pretty easy to convince one human to hurt another.

Plenty of psychological studies show that it is pretty easy to convince one human to hurt another

Yep, use WW2/Hitler for some case studies...

I just wish even some of the coverage, scrutiny, mourning and outrage shown in this country was also shown whenever children are needlessly killed by bombs elsewhere around the world, all too often in incidents we as a country are connected to.

Yep, I don't see a daily death toll for those children on the front of the Daily Mail. Presumably because we are the good guys.

km79 - Member 
I just wish even some of the coverage, scrutiny, mourning and outrage shown in this country was also shown whenever children are needlessly killed by bombs elsewhere around the world

Indeed. Though BBC have an article on this, it was largely ignored in the UK

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39613313 ]'At least 68 children among 126 killed' in bus bombing[/url]

Though we dismiss it too easily because a) it's Syria and b) it's supposedly war.

Instead we have outrage on TV and radio I've been hearing over the last day with people calling for anyone who's been to Syria or comes from there, to be sent back there.

As per my previous post. Now confirmed that a colleague from a neighbouring force but who was seconded to our region is among the victims.
RIP

As per my previous post. Now confirmed that a colleague from a neighbouring force but who was seconded to our region is among the victims.

Aw shit. Really sorry to read that. Sincere condolences. I am assuming that you're one of Her Maj's Finest, so the family will get support?

RIP.

This is the same as what happens in Syria. Except there it happens all the time.

Imagine one or two bombings like this every day. That's why people are trying to get out of Syria. So when you praise those taxi drivers giving free rides in Manchester, remember that they are not the only ones in need of help.

I know most of us here do.. so I guess this is more rhetorical than anything else.

@Bregante sorry to hear that.

One thing lacking from UK news reporting is any attempt to analyse why. News seems to have lost interest in the background and is happy for cheap headlines.

truly sorry to hear that Bregante

One thing lacking from UK news reporting is any attempt to analyse why.

I was thinking that this is a good thing. I haven't seen much finger-pointing at Muslims. Maybe they are waiting til more is known before talking about who and why. Another good thing imo.

Sorry to hear that Begante message me if you want to talk.

Bregante - Member 
As per my previous post. Now confirmed that a colleague from a neighbouring force but who was seconded to our region is among the victims.
RIP

🙁 Really sorry to hear that. Just seen it mentioned on the news also.

I was thinking that this is a good thing. I haven't seen much finger-pointing at Muslims. Maybe they are waiting til more is known before talking about who and why. Another good thing imo.

thinking about context really, rather than harassing victims etc. I would rather there was a bit more in depth analysis rather than 30second soundbites. This is a general point not really this specifically. This isn't really a "muslim" issue, as far as i am aware it is a subset of a subset of a subset. Maybe it would help if people actually understood a bit more about the context of why we are here. Maybe it would take the heat off those who happen to be Muslim but like the majority of the general population think this is wrong?????

My nine year old asked me why terrorists care whether kids go to concerts or not.

I had no answer to give

Newsround came up with a great article Frank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/13865002

My 7 year old asked if The Devil was going to eat the bomber in Hell. She also wanted to know what sort of plane he had.

3 kids from her school were there. One was in the foyer area, but escaped without a scratch.

Harry_the_Spider - Member 
3 kids from her school were there. One was in the foyer area, but escaped without a scratch.

Terrible thing to witness though 🙁

Terrorism

Now whole nation is waiting on next attack & further escalation of Terror

When do we actually say enough is enough, or do we just look forward to a negotiated settlement in a decade or so.

Dannyh
I can understand and wish I couldn't.
I cannot excuse it or find any justification for it.

Moly - agreed

[s]I'm closing this why I tidy up the arguments. [/s]

Stop it please and show some respect. Take it elsewhere preferably a different forum.

Bregante - Member
As per my previous post. Now confirmed that a colleague from a neighbouring force but who was seconded to our region is among the victims.
RIP

Drac - you've removed what I thought was a reasonably respectful reply to the "When do we actually say enough is enough" comment.

I'll try again and I'll try to keep it respectful. If I fail please delete.

We don't say enough because we can't. You can stop a percentage of incidents through better security, but if by dong so you alienate people you increase the likelihood of an attempted incident. And if by doing so you lose the freedoms that make our society worth living in then you just lost. There is therefore a balance.
Beyond that balance it is societal pressures that you need to use. Make people feel part of society and that they are invested in it and they are both less likely to get involved in an incident and more likely to stop it. Call them the problem and they will be.

Think of everything from football hooligans in cages at matches to the peace process in Northern Ireland.

And in Manchester many folk of a Muslim persuation were going out of their way to be clear that they are part of British society and they were doing what they could to help. Far more than most of us typing away on t'interweb. So start from there and see what positive things can be done.

Drac I have numerous first hand experiences of Terrorism including sitting 8 feet from my colleague Mark Zwyenberg who lost his life over Lockerbie. I do appreciate however that there is a sense of "how soon" making a comment is appropriate.

Drac - you've removed what I thought was a reasonably respectful reply to the "When do we actually say enough is enough" comment.

It was but sadly it spawned too many other responses and got caught in the delete.

So please do Jamba.

When do we actually say enough is enough, or do we just look forward to a negotiated settlement in a decade or so.

I'd love a negotiated settlement, historically that's how we've dealt with our terrorists, find out what they want, give them some of it so they stop blowing things up.

With the current crop, I'm not sure that'll ever work, as their stated aim is the end of our civilisation 🙁

too close to home for me....

The 14 year old girl Sorrell Leczkowski who horribly murdered on Monday is(was) my nieces friend from school.

My best friend who is a consultant anaesthetist at MRI and has been heavily involved with many of the operations

Speaking to both of them this eve was horrific , sat here wife out boys asleep crying my eyes out....

Not nice UFG. My sympathies.

[img] [/img]

I'm not very keen on nationalism and waving flags but a flag "en berne" with its black tie expresses my thoughts today.

Terrible. UFG 🙁

Sorry Reposting to top again - if you have something shit to say read below...

unfitgeezer - Member
[b]too close to home for me....

The 14 year old girl Sorrell Leczkowski who horribly murdered on Monday is(was) my nieces friend from school.

My best friend who is a consultant anaesthetist at MRI and has been heavily involved with many of the operations

Speaking to both of them this eve was horrific , sat here wife out boys asleep crying my eyes out....[/b]

And someone I know on another forum is friends with one of the poor bastards putting the "victim packs" together. Basically trying to reunite bits with bodies for the purposes of identification. Seemingly two had their phones melted to their hands.

This is what has happened and what people are dealing with. Please take a moment to reflect on that and consider whether this is really the time for internet cockbaggery. I'm frankly sick of hearing Drac at this point, nobody should have to repeat themselves that often, if it was me the hammer would have fallen after the first warning.

Went to the Trafford Centre last night to watch a film, and driving back home along the M60 the signs saying "Major incident Manchester City Centre, expect delays" made it seem so trivial. Thinking at that time what that incident was choked me up. A good mate of mine is a Family Liaison Officer for GMP and it seems the last couple of days have been very tough to deal with for him and his colleagues. Others have said it already but to anyone involved in dealing with the aftermath, thank you and look after your own well being. Stay safe out there, and don't bottle your feelings up either. Find someone to talk to if you need to.

And to any of you who have been affected in anyway by it, however big or small, you're in my thoughts.

And someone I know on another forum is friends with one of the poor bastards putting the "victim packs" together. Basically trying to reunite bits with bodies for the purposes of identification. Seemingly two had their phones melted to their hands.

My colleague does this. It's horrendous.

^ Video is actually United fans in Stockholm I believe.

there will be a nationwide minutes silence held at 11am today in memory of those who tragically lost their lives

please make sure you observe it everyone

[b]there will be a nationwide minutes silence held at 11am today in memory of those who tragically lost their lives

please make sure you observe it everyone[/b]

Well said @gronzy and yes indeed

Just got back ..... dusty in bolton

I've pinched that graphic Binners, as I've decided to try to raise some funds doing the Lakesman triathlon in a few weeks time. I wasn't going to bother as it was a personal challenge, but as a Manchester resident even if I can add a few quid to the appeal then it helps.

So if anyone feels like chucking a few quid in, here's my [url= https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/Lakesman22 ]JustGiving page[/url], and I can assure you I'm undertrained and overweight and it'll be a long, tough day.

Being reported in telegraph that abedi's house was 'bomb making factory' with substantial chemicals stash.
The police view now appears to be that he was the bomb maker and is likely to have made more devices - which have not been found.

Link for that?

Telegraph & BBC websites; also see front pages of Times & Guardian for linked/supporting information as corroboration.
R4 midnight news described abedi as 'bomb maker'.
They could all be wrong or over-stating the facts.