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Correct, and this combined with the growing of wheat you had a major event in human evolution: the cheese sarnie
hog because of the taste.
Hog because its pig-like snout.
The Neanderthalers were big meat eaters and things didn’t go too well for them.
I think the best evidence suggests that they ate what they could find in their environment. Some (like some Inuit) probably ate very little other than meat, but that's not going to be true of all Neanderthal communities. They probably died out via a combination of competition, violence and sexy times from H Sap.
There's a lot of folk on this thread that don't have a clear understanding of evolution.
A 'clear understanding of evolution' is a bit of a challenge, the more you read the more complex, nuanced and vague it all becomes. The Neanderthalers being a fascinating case in point. Why might people with such good hunting skills succumb to violence? What were relations like with the CrM's given that they left a genetic marker? Absorbtion or expulsion, both? What was their level of social organisation to produce the bone mounds and artefacts? Did they think symbolically? Answers please.
Oh, the comment about evolution was about the sort of comments like the one on flies on page 2...
Why might people with such good hunting skills succumb to violence..?
Numbers probably...mano a mano, I reckon Neanderthals would probs have had an advantage, but the evidence seems to suggest that H Ndals moved in small isolated groups. There's evidence all over the place that H Sap and H Ndals interacted in the same ways that Humans have always interacted, sometimes they fought, sometimes they lived peacefully, they probably assimilated over time. There's some fascinating studies about some of the inherited genetic material that H Ndals passed on.
There's no real way of knowing whether they though symbolically, but there's some evidence of cave painting, jewellery making and perhaps tattooing, some think that things like art demonstrate appreciation of abstract, but there's also been studies that show these objects may have been traded or copied. I think we tend to still look upon H Ndals as "Cavemen Brutes" when they weren't really anything like that, Adam Rutherford likes to use the "Suit on the Underground" test to sort into one's head about how close these humans are to us, and TBH, they'd blend right in...Personally I'd like to think they were just like us.
Note; Cro-magnon is a disused term now
love the fact that everyone has ignored the correct answer from Kerley
kerley
Member
An animal that mutated to taste bad would have better survival chances, no?Evolution doesn’t work in this case. The humans assumptions is that the animals for given breed taste the same. The human only finds out after they have killed one so any less nice ones will not survive more than the nicer ones.
If a normally delicious tree grub had a random mutation to make him taste bitter, it wouldn't make him any less likely to get eaten.... just chewed a bit, but then spat out. The fact that whatever just ate him is less likely to eat one of his mates, actually advantages those without the random mutation.... as they are now less likely to get eaten.
Even if word did spread that the previously delicious grubs were now bad to eat, it would advantage all the grubs equally, and so would not result in any advantage for the ones with the mutation.
Hence animals that are small and poisonous have had to evolve bright colours to warn predators despite being bad to eat.
Mmmmmmmm - delicious grubs
Yep fascinating stuff. I flagged up on earlier threads about having never seen an act of violence against humans in the French and Spanish cave paintings, it all seemed to me about co-operation and the veneration or symbolic influence over their prey. What's replaced 'cro-magnon', this is not my territory.
What’s replaced ‘cro-magnon’
Ah, The slightly less poetic EEMH...Early European Modern Humans. Sometimes also grouped as Archaic Humans. Or just H Sap...Bear in mind that (depending if you're a splitter or grouper) there may have been 3 sub species of H Sapiens; Hom Sap, Hom Sapiens Idaltu, and Us; Hom Sapiens Sapiens...Freaky huh?
I should think they're all represented on here at different times of the day. Did Neanderthalers make bum jokes and insults?
love the fact that everyone has ignored the correct answer from Kerley
When I read it the first time, I couldn't work out what he was saying at all...
Did Neanderthalers make bum jokes and insults?
God I hope so...There's an interesting study that shows that in H-G groups (!Khung Sang and Aka groups) , there's a common behaviour of older members of the group taking the piss of the younger male hunters. "Is that all you could manage to bring us? That won't feed me, let alone a family" etc etc, or if the young hunters starts boasting, there's jokes about his junk.. It's been theorised that it keeps everyone in the pecking order and stops the stronger more capable members taking over...There's no reason to suspect that our early ancestors didn't do the same...
A ‘clear understanding of evolution’ is a bit of a challenge, the more you read the more complex, nuanced and vague it all becomes.
One of the problems with evolutionary psychology is that it explains everything, by definition. Whatever the outcome, that's assumed to have some survival advantage. Problem is, the advantage may not be obvious at all, so it's not really explaining anything. In some cases, pure blind luck may have had a huge role. An asteroid strike, for example, might wipe out all large animals and small rat-like mammals suddenly have an opportunity to take over because all the large predators have suddenly vanished.
I filmed a Kung San chap speaking (I wanted the clicks) about an arts centre during which he takes the piss out of people around him. The San fascinate me. Most diverse people genetically.
Maybe all the early ‘umans ate all the really nice stuff and we’re left with the dross 🤔
Yep, piss-taking as a form of social control (EEE Pritchard!). Among the Kung status can be achieved through giving. I got stuck a couple of times driving in the desert and ended up leaving the vehicle in a San guy's compound. I gave him a fairly chunky note and within seconds it was in the hands of his three-year-old. Delightful!
I read today that 70% percent of disease comes from animal agriculture, including one some might know called SARS-Covid19.
It’s not through ‘animal agriculture’, it’s through the capture of inappropriate wild animals that themselves have been exposed to various wild viruses via contact with other wild animals. As in the trading and slaughter of pangolin purely for their scales* for use in health treatments that don’t do anything, the pangolin live in areas with large bat populations, and people get infected by contact with both the pangolin and with bat guano, which is also harvested in large quantities as fertiliser.
It’s in the illegal ‘wet markets’ that the main spread among humans occurs; the animals aren’t being bred, in an agricultural sense, they’re being trapped in the wild for financial gain and human greed, not for any calorific value.
*I’ve often wondered if money can be made from gullible idiots by collecting hair clippings and nail clippings from the various salons, grinding them into powder and selling it as ground pangolin scales and rhino horn, it’s exactly the same material, keratin.
That’s high profile media wise (and something I’d like to see an end to for many reasons) … but animal farming pushing into wild areas (especially pigs) is the most likely way for viruses in wild animals to hop towards man… via domesticated animals.