I know there is an EV Charging thread but it's 10 pages long...
So, I'm about to buy some kind of EV and am wondering what charger to get and what type of connectivity is most useful..
I'm already an Octopus customer so looking at Intelligent Octopus Go for charging, at least in the short term, and I notice that Octopus have a selection of chargers available for purchase on their website, some of them have 4G and WiFi connectivity and some have one or the other. They have tethered and untethered options
The one with both 4G and WiFi available is an Octopus branded charger and presumably this integrates with the Octopus app so seems to be the sensible choice for minimal faff.
Anything particular to look for when considering a charger or are they all much the same?
What do people do about the cable from the consumer unit? My consumer unit is on the other side of the front elevation to where I would want the charger and I have a block paved driveway. I don't want the cable running across the front of the house. Can it easily be routed under the drive? I do have an outside socket near where I would want the charger but obviously it doesn't have a dedicated RCD as it is on a downstairs socket circuit and presumably it has the wrong size cable going to it anyway.....?
Have just had EV setup fitted at ours. We went with a Hypervolt home pro 3 as it was recommended by the sparky. Our routing was easy as it’s straight through the garage to the consumer unit, which we swapped at the same time to a new surge protected full RCBO fusebox branded unit.
I’m pretty sure a buried cable need to be inside conduit. That outside socket won’t be of any use as it’s a completely different style and size of cable needed.
Have you got any way to make a dedicated RCD supply for the circuit, If not you’ll need a separate smaller consumer unit fitted. What’s the main incoming fuse size and meter tail mm2?
In usual STW spirit I'll recommend what I have which is an Ohme Home Pro. Got it through an Octopus registered installer.
Plus points:
it was fairly easy to set up.
Connects to WiFi.
I bought the 8m tethered cable (standard is 5m and wouldn't reach where I park), I'd definitely go for tethered, much quicker to uncoil and plug in vs searching in the boot for the car charging cable.
Works with Octopus Intelligent Go which was again not difficult to setup.
Negative points
I had it put in the wrong place, another 5 meters of cable would have put it in a better position.
Installation considerations:
Mine cost £1300 installed, that included a 25m external cable run, the charger with the longer tethered cable, fitting, a new consumer unit (Garage type but external grade, made the install easier and meant they didn't need to access my internal consumer unit) and a surge protector thingy.
Length of cable, how many walls etc the have to go though all, whether the meter is external or not all affect the install cost. Mine is armored cable tacked to the house wall. Running it under block paving would make it more expensive and it can be a pig to relay properly.
As above the outside socket is irrelevant, the charger needs a dedicated cable (higher capacity than a socket, more like a shower rating) and needs a dedicated circuit.
Been fairly happy with it, installed in August. Hope that helps.
My consumer unit is on the left hand side of the house and I want the charger on the right hand side of an extension on the right of the house 15m away. This means the cable will need to go under the block paved driveway or be an eyesore across the whole front of the house!
What’s the main incoming fuse size and meter tail mm2?
Just been to look and there's room in the CU for an additional RCD (2 spaces). The main fuse is 100A and there are already two 80A RCDs. Not sure how thick the cable from the meter to the CU is but looks to be at least 10mm inc sleeving.
The cable can definitely buried in conduit, but it will add a lot to the cost of installation. It doesn't have to be very high up the house wall.
100 amp fuse is good.
The spaces in your consumer are for MCBs (minature circuit breaker, a modern fuse which trips if too much current is drawn, protects the circuit) , an RCD (residual current device) is different, it trips when it detects earth leakage, it protects people as it will detect tiny currents leaking to earth very quickly.
Is your incoming meter outside or inside of the house? Mine is outside, they installed a new mini external CU that comes off the incoming feed directly after meter. It contains a separate RCD and 2 linked MCBs, I'm assuming theres an MCB on both live and neutral, either tripping switches the other off automatically. It's quite neat but then my meter is down the side of the house we don't use.
I have a Zappi ( https://www.myenergi.com/product/zappi-ev-charger/) which plays nicely with Octopus. I’d recommend it as there was no trouble getting an engineer out this Summer to deal with a problem just before the 3 year warranty expired. Myenergi sent both a replacement PCB and entire new unit out prior to the engineer’s visit, which seemed decently proactive and avoided the “I’ll have to return with parts” delay.
Hypervolt pro 3 here I'm on Octopus IOG , its connected via LAN absolutely no issues at all with the IOG tariff
Rather than seek advise here I'd contact a local fitter to advise what is needed. MY CU needed upgraded (was circa 1992) I kinda expected that extra cost. I also had the issue of adding a CU for EV charger and some Henley blocks in to hide the EV from my solar and battery set so it didn't drain those.
Actually main fuse is 80A. I'm assuming that a dedicated RCD can be added to the existing CU is what I meant as there is physically space for it (two spare MCB slots). My meter is inside. the whole lot is by the front door but annoyingly even if I didn't mind the cable on the outside it would need to go over the front door first.
However on the plus side I can run an ethernet cable at the same time as my switch is also in the same location...
Owning an EV might be green but it sure as hell is not cheap!
My next problem is going to be finding a suitably qualified installer who is ging to do a decent job of all the cabling.
EDIT - is the zappi ethernet capable?
Actually main fuse is 80A. I'm assuming that a dedicated RCD can be added to the existing CU is what I meant as there is physically space for it (two spare MCB slots). My meter is inside. the whole lot is by the front door but annoyingly even if I didn't mind the cable on the outside it would need to go over the front door first.
However on the plus side I can run an ethernet cable at the same time as my switch is also in the same location...
Owning an EV might be green but it sure as hell is not cheap!
My next problem is going to be finding a suitably qualified installer who is ging to do a decent job of all the cabling.
EDIT - is the zappi ethernet capable?
From a design and certification pov an additional consumer unit is a much simpler proposition.
See what your installer says, but don't bank on using space in the existing unit.
Just looked and the Zappi is ethernet capable. Also they have a whole load of installers so I've messaged a few. I think it's going to be expensive though.
I tend to recommend Zappi but have fitted other brands supplied by customers. Most installers now use a cable called ev ultra, basically a 3 core flex with a cat 5 inside. You can’t fit an rcbo into a split load cu (like your fuse board) as it will never trip and you can’t use an rcd/mcb combo anymore. so it’s either a dedicated extra unit if there’s physical space in the meter cupboard or change the existing fuse board with all the extra work that that entails.
I'm with Octopus but opted not to have Intelligent Go
i/ no availability of Oct installers any time when I needed it and the private installer I liked reckoned not that much better given ii/ Oct Go gives me 5 hours of about 7kW per night, even allowing for losses = 30kWh per night - at 3.8 mi/kWh that's 114mi/night or 800 miles a week = 40,000 miles per year. I do about 12k and subsequently wife has also gone to an EV and does 5k / year so we have less than 50% utilisation. Ties in well, we usually have a car on charge 3/7 nights per week. And lastly, iii/ eventually I'll have a car that can control IntelliGo so can go to that anyway.
OK, so we do 17-18000 miles per year and that's 4600kWh which we paid an extra 1.5p for (8.5p Oct Go, 7p IntelliGo) so it's costing us £70 odd per year but small beer really.
Mine's a QuBEV and it's been faultless in just over a year; controlled via a very intuitive phone app, I just programmed it for the 5 cheap hours per night and the wife's car lives on the drive and is plugged in when needed, mine's on the road and they get swapped over when mine needs a charge.
Other advantage is we have a narrow drive and her car has the port on the RHS rear, mine's on the front so we have an untethered 7.5m cable - I can't park front in unless I get out into a spiky bush or over the passenger seat. so I need a cable long enough to reach the length of the car, bought separately to the box. The routing from a dedicated box next to consumer unit goes through one internal wall into the adjoined garage and then clipped along the inside garage wall to the QuBev box which is also actually inside the garage. If I'd put on the garage externally would have to be on the other side wall and a fight past the bin store to get to it. The untethered cable sits with the box and when needed I just run it under the garage door that has a tiny v-notch cut for it. So not much more hassle than tethered as we don't have to hunt for the cable.
Right, a few installers contacted via the Zappi and Hypervolt websites.
I had a Zappi fitted 15 months ago, WiFi capable (no ethernet at home). I think it load manages as didn't need to swap our 80A fuse for a 100A one. We didn't use Octopus to fit as they were impossible to arrange on a timely basis. Use a good indepndent I would suggest. You will need to apply for the intelligent go tariff, and then add your car to their app as a device. You will need to get smart meters installed by Octopus if you don't already have them (which might also have a delay as they are v busy), but you don't need to wait for that before installing the charger.
Go for the longer tethered options - there will be times when you'll want to charge when the car is parked in a different spot, and you'll want it to reach.
I tend to recommend Zappi but have fitted other brands supplied by customers. Most installers now use a cable called ev ultra, basically a 3 core flex with a cat 5 inside. You can’t fit an rcbo into a split load cu (like your fuse board) as it will never trip and you can’t use an rcd/mcb combo anymore. so it’s either a dedicated extra unit if there’s physical space in the meter cupboard or change the existing fuse board with all the extra work that that entails.
Right, that's good to know, thanks. There's room where the main CU is for an additional small extra unit so hopefully that bit is OK. It will plug straight into my network there too. The main issue will be getting the cable to where I want the charger without it costing the earth.
I have a smart meter and the car I may get (hybrid) isn't compatible directly with Octopus so I'll need to add the charger into the Octopus app I guess...
so I'll need to add the charger into the Octopus app I guess...
That's fine, my KIA won't talk to the charger. I just set the car to 80% max charge and the charger to 100%. Charger decides to charge when appropriate talking to Octopus, car stops charging when it hits 80%.
Don't discount the granny charger if you're not doing loads of miles (our EV is basically the run around - we have a people carrier for long trips). I did the maths on the payback from using intelligent octopus vs just normal octopus go (or whatever it's called - the one with fixed cheap hours), and the payback was several years given the milage we do and the minimum 1000 quid that a charger will cost. Hasn't been a problem at all in a year and a half now.
I have a smart meter and the car I may get (hybrid) isn't compatible directly with Octopus so I'll need to add the charger into the Octopus app I guess...
If a hybrid do you really need a home charger? Given the smaller battery is there somewhere local or at work you can charge the battery or just granny charge. You need to do the sums to see if installation of EV charger £1k is worth it, that's a lot of public charging.
Don't discount the granny charger if you're not doing loads of miles (our EV is basically the run around - we have a people carrier for long trips).
That's a good point. I already have an outside socket and as it's a hybrid (for now anyway until we change again - maybe a full EV next time). So I wonder how long it will take to charge using a standard 3 pin socket...
If a hybrid do you really need a home charger? Given the smaller battery is there somewhere local or at work you can charge the battery or just granny charge.
Yeah as above - I hadn't really thought about the granny charging option and I don't do that many miles in my car. I'm also not 100% on the hybrid either - depends on stock which I'll hopefully find out tomorrow. There are 3 chargers at work (I WFH but go into the office on occasion - they may even be 22KW ones there - not sure). So between the office and a granny charger I might get away without one for now... Still if the install isn't too horrendous I'd probably still consider it as no doubt I'll need one at some point...
I've not got the motivation to indulge in the chronic overthinking which seems to go hand in hand with anything Octopus but I'm definitely motivated enough to tell you not to go anywhere near ProjectEV because they're a dangerously useless bunch of incompetents.
Unless you want a burnt-out charger and an upside down replacement obviously, in which case crack on!
I'm definitely motivated enough to tell you not to go anywhere near ProjectEV because they're a dangerously useless bunch of incompetents.
Thanks - will avoid at all costs.
I started out with a granny charger which took 3 days for a full charge on octopus go as I didnt do that many miles. The thing that swung it for me was the occasion to get a full charge so I could use the car on consecutive days and ended up with and Indra smart lux. I would check out the mobile apps for the chargers as they are lagging behind in usability and functionality. The other consideration was whether i wanted a charger with a socket or one with a fixed cable and the length. I chose the fixed cable and ignore the aesthetics just for ease. It was possible to configure octopus intelligent go with a granny charger as long as Octopus could connect to the car manufacturer.
I’m with Octopus on electric car scheme at work. Got free charger install last year and went with Ohme ePod un-tethered as no uplift and neatest solution. It’s been fine and ‘talks’ to Octopus so compatible with smart charging features of the IG tariff.
In the process of moving house (new build) and the standard charger provided is not officially compatible with IOG so I’m choosing one that is – current frontrunner is Hypervolt Home 3 Pro with 7.5m cable. I’m going tethered this time as it’s a PITA getting the cable in/out the boot when it’s crap weather, and I don’t want to keep the cable on the charger as like having it in the car just in case.
FYI - I emailed Octopus the other month and this is the official list known to be compatible with IOG tariff:
- Octopus Charge (Tethered or Untethered)
- Hypervolt Home 3 or Home 3 Pro
- Myenergi Zappi
- Ohme ePod, Go Charging Type 2, Home Pro
- Wallbox Pulsar Max, Pulsar Plus
- Anderson A2 7kWh, A3 7 and 22kWh, Quartz 7 and 22kWh
Hope this helps.
Thanks - as a free member now I can't like posts anymore.
I've had recent experience of this - had a Hypervolt 3 Pro fitted just before Xmas by Octopus with a tethered 10m cable. I'd been on granny charging for the last 3 years or so for my 60kw Megane, worked OK but I wanted a 'proper' charger for convenience - quicker charging and no faffing about opening the garage door when I wanted to plug in. Same with wanting a long tethered cable, I didn't want to have to park 'nose in' on the drive to charge which I'd have to do with a shorter cable, also didn't want to have to rummage in the boot when I want to plug in.
When Octopus come out and fit charge points they actually wire direct into your electricity meter via a new small outside dedicated consumer unit. So the location of your leccy meter matters more than the location of your consumer unit if that makes sense.
Was £1,150 all in, ordered on the 27th Oct and fitted on the 4th Dec. The fitter took about 5hrs to finish it, it's worked fine since.
Another thing to think about is charger cable length. Some cars have charge points at the front, some at the back. Make sure you get a cable that's long enough for both and if you have 2 parking places can reach both. It's usually a no cost option to get the long cable.
Yes, you could park nose in and shuffle cars but it'd be nice not to have to do so.
As suggested above, it might be worth doing the maths on just using the granny charger.
We've been using one since May last year and have done about 8k miles in that time (I think about 7k of them with home charging) never had issues with getting enough power in to the car.
We have 7hrs of cheap electricity each night, which adds about 50 miles to the range. We plug the car in every night, and as we use it most days we have it set to charge to a max SOC of 100%.
If we think that we are likely to run too low on charge with longer journeys on consecutive days, then we will programme it to also charge at the non-cheap rate times.
£1000 spent on a charger buys a lot of granny charging at the marginal cost difference between peak and off-peak.
Your use case might vary depending on your driving profile, but I'd recommend just using the granny for a few weeks to see if you can save yourself £1000 on an install.
I dont get why people have to make these things so complicated. Are they not just a high power smart socket?
I got mine about 5 years ago when i got a new Mercedes hybrid co car. I think the government paid half the install so it cost me about £400. I went for the smallest most basic one i could find at the time because my wife didnt want a big ugly box on the side of the house. I believe its a sync ev charger but probably old model. Its a box with a ev charging plug socket on the front. That is literally it. Oh it has a light ring around the socket to show what its doing.
For the first 3 years it got plugged in and it charged. Never an issue. Never tripped a fuse or anything. It could be locked by a credit card type swipe or i had a main cut off installed inside the garage to completely disconnect it when i went on holiday.
Once all these cheaper tarrifs came about i felt i was missing out on things and i had a full ev so needed to make the most of cheaper charging. I called sync ev who told me it was fully integrated with either my own house wifi or it had its own built in, they connected to it and updated its firmware whilst we spoke. Straight away i had smart charging controls i could alter with an app.
Its been 100% reliable, its very discreet and it cost me £400 5 years ago. I cant ask for much more tbh.
Oh and i had the choice of the zappy models too. Every single member of staff who got the zappi models at home has had to replace them due to malfunction and my employer upgraded themselves although i dont know if that was just because they were getting old.
Yup, you don't get half the cost paid these days. And costs rise over time. But you're right, effectively they're just a smart socket - the difference is they're 7kw rather than the 2 and a bit kw you might get on a granny charger.
The newer ones are an awful lot easier to lock and unlock via the app than swiping a card or moving a switch. Handy when you're not at home anyway.
So either the Hypervolt or one of Octopus' own brand look to be most compatible for me. The Ohme ones seem to only support 4G connectivity which would probably be OK as the signal here is pretty good but for some reason I'm more inclined to go for a Cat5 connection using an EV Ultra cable. That said a cycling buddy says he has an Ohme one and he's convinced it's connected to his WiFi. The Ohme website clearly states 4G only and warns of poor performance if signal strength is low. I'm not sure I'll ever want to stand in front of it and use an LCD panel even to look at status so that's not a feature I'd pay for.
I like the fact that the Hypervolt can be used in stealth mode so no LED on the front to advertise it in the dark and I'd want a long tethered cable.
My main concern is the cable run. I'm reluctantly getting used to the idea that I will have a cable running along the whole front elevation of the house - I suppose we'll get used to it. Presumably it will be black.
I filled out some installer requests on the Zappi website but I'm not sure I want one of those now. I have sent pictures of the CU and meter location, earth bonding, house exterior etc and I'm waiting for quote feedback but I'll probably get in touch with Octopus for one of theirs.
Additionally I am assuming that Octopus as the DNO will upgrade the fuse to 100A while they are at it.
I initially went via hypervolt themselves to get a quote and a list of approved installers in my area. The Hypervolt quote required endless pictures and questions and it became clear they were going to sub out fitting to a local fitter. I ended up contacting a few from their list, guy who fitted was really good and efficient. He's done more work for me and family since.
I'd try and get a local fitter yourself rather than rely on being subbed out.
I'm pretty sure the DNO's are now down rating fuses now.
Octopus wont be your DNO
Octopus aren't the DNO, they're a supply company. The DNO is a different thing
https://www.energynetworks.org/customers/find-my-network-operator
So Octopus won't upgrade supply to the house, if it needs a bigger fuse etc., but I think they will liaise with the DNO for you. I think that's normal to check that you can install a large load - I used an indie but they did all the paperwork on my behalf with the DNO.
[edit - just googled, they have to do the DNO stuff for you. Makes sense, I saw and I think signed the form but didn't understand half the questions]
In my case I have a shared supply with next door as I'm in a semi but they didn't upgrade supply, instead fitted load balancing. In theory I might not get full 32A, in reality as I charge 1230-0530 most of the time I'm not running the oven, kettle, toaster, tumble drier at that time anyway and so haven't noticed any throttling. I suppose at some point I might also have a heat pump, and next door also has an EV and a heat pump, but we'll sort that when it arises.
Ah I see. I have an 80A fuse so maybe that's enough anyway. Hypervolt have sent me to an installer called 247EV who are based in Cheshire by the looks of it - miles away so no doubt a local installer would be contracted to do the work. Perhaps I'll just ask them for a list (not sure how to get details of approved installers otherwise..).
EV charger installers should have accreditation.... List here..... Edit: my installer is there, but there appears to be a lot of chaff on the list, so worth doing some research and seeing if you can find local recomms as well
https://www.gov.uk/electric-vehicle-chargepoint-installers
yeah it was 24/7 in Warrington I was dealing with, I'm in Aberdeen not exactly local. I asked for a list of Aberdeen approved installers, which Hypervolt gave me.
All very helpful info. Thanks everyone.