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Maybe I’ve been living in a hole over Xmas. But what the actual sausage sandwich just happened?
The US has just removed the president, what next?
It's in depth on the Trump thread. May or may not be useful to put it on a separate thread here
It's going to be a multi year (decade) topic, suggest it's own thread is warranted
The worlds biggest superpower just signalled that international law is now a thing of the past and it’s now a free-for-all pissing competition.
Given this new reality, I expect China will be getting ready to invade Taiwan, on the same spurious context, in pretty short order
You know, I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but I'm starting to have doubts about this Trump fellow's judgment.
If nothing else, this should be a clear message to European countries (especially the UK and Ireland) that the US can never be relied upon, and we are going to have to take care of our own defence and foreign policy. And for us that's going to involve recognising that multilateral action wirh the EU is the only way forwards on big issues, and that a lot more time and money will have to be spent on defence.
The worlds biggest superpower just signalled that international law is now a thing of the past and it’s now a free-for-all pissing competition.
Ahem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden
They went off the reservation years ago so let's all calm down the hysterics because it's Trump.
It's okay, I'm sure Russia will stop at Ukraine, China will stop at Taiwan and America will stop at Venezuela.
We'll be fine, nothing to worry about really
The worlds biggest superpower just signalled that international law is now a thing of the past and it’s now a free-for-all pissing competition.
Ahem.
The US assassination of bin Laden was followed by Russia's assassination of Denis Voronenkov, Pavel Sheremet, Maksym Shapoval and others in Ukraine and the UK, India's assassination of Hardeep Singh Nijjar in Canada...
They went off the reservation years ago so let's all calm down the hysterics because it's Trump
You're seriously comparing killing probably the worlds most notorious terrorist, who was responsible for 9/11 amongst other things, to kidnapping the leader of a country, shipping him back to the states, then announcing that you’ll be taking over the running of that particular country and it’s enormous oil reserves?
Mkay….
‘International law’ has always been an oxymoron, trotted out to suit whatever the person in power wants it to mean. Trump has just made that obvious to the masses. All the other bad actors in the world are laughing it up right now. What a dick.
They went off the reservation years ago so let's all calm down the hysterics because it's Trump
You're seriously comparing killing probably the worlds most notorious terrorist, who was responsible for 9/11 amongst other things, to kidnapping the leader of a country, shipping him back to the states, then announcing that you’ll be taking over the running of that particular country and it’s enormous oil reserves?
Mkay….
No, I'm demonstrating that the USA has shown a blatant disregard for international law many, many times in the past.
That horse bolted a long time ago.
If you want to be really pedantic I'll compare it to the US led invasion of Iraq in 2003 the subsequent 20+ years of war and many dead.
They went off the reservation years ago so let's all calm down the hysterics because it's Trump.
I'm not sure they were ever on the reservation in the first place.
Quite the list of examples here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
@supernova has it. International law is only law & observed when it's in the best interests of a country. The rest of the time it is roundly rodded off.
Yeehaa ! It’s cupcakes and candy bars Mr President.…. Expects to be taken seriously on the wold’s stage ?
Pleased I’ve spent the weekend in the Welsh hills.
im sure I’ve emerged into some sort of Dickensian Disneyland.
Of course he's going to be taken seriously, he's just forcefully kidnapped a countries leader, quite possibly with collusion from Venezuelan actors, if not helping, at least not obstructing/limiting obstruction.
Don't be under any illusions about the far right and Farage in the UK being in line for support in order to further weaken Europe and make us even more servile to Trump's world. They might not be planning on using force, but they're definitely wanting a far right UK government that is further isolated from the rest of Europe.
I`m thinking Maduro possibly reconsidering his views on Russia invading Ukraine - and possibly a little bit more empathetic to Ukraines position after making his previous comment:
"Russia is seeking peace, President Vladimir Putin is, and the more the Russian army advances—heir of the Red Army against the Nazis of Ukraine"
Whilst i fel sorry for the typical Venezuelan having their country invaded for the intention of robbing it; Its very difficult to have much sympathy for Maduro.
Whilst i fel sorry for the typical Venezuelan having their country invaded for the intention of robbing it; Its very difficult to have much sympathy for Maduro.
I think it's perfectly possible to think Maduro is a nasty piece of work who Venezuela is better off without AND that the US were very much in the wrong to do what they did.
So the Venezuelan regime is still in place. Nothing has change in that respect. Phase two has to be boots on the ground?
Whilst i fel sorry for the typical Venezuelan having their country invaded for the intention of robbing it; Its very difficult to have much sympathy for Maduro.
This is pretty much my take on it. It's not impossible that this will end up being a good thing for Venezuela in the long term, with transfer of power to an elected government and rebuilding of the economy, but that would require a lot of things to go right and I think they are much more likely to go wrong. Trump doesn't seem to have any coherent plan for what to do after the overthrow - overthrowing the government is the easy part, fixing the mess afterwards takes years of hard work and I don't think the MAGA crew have any interest in the hard work part of it. Still, for the sake of the Venezuelan people, I hope things get better.
Phase two has to be boots on the ground?
I think phase two is to declare victory and then walk away.
Suspect someone else has answered this already and I haven't seen it...has Trump just done a Putin?
Comments from his staff seem to suggest this is all about oil and making things better for America...
It certainly appears to be that, but is it as simplistic as that?
Will he do similar on other countries that create and supply drugs?
Duplicate post
Ahem...
And Canada too, presumably. If I were Mark Carney I'd be looking at bolstering my air defences.
so if trump gets vemezuala, russia gets ukraine, i suppose china gets burma and laos, cambodia and paracel/spratly islands etc in the NOT china sea
Ukraine are all over my Facebook saying how happy they are about this. Are they holding their noses and sucking up to trump or is there another reason?
Ukraine are all over my Facebook saying how happy they are about this.
Seems a bit misguided - surely the quid pro quo is that Putin will keep quiet about Trump's "special military operation" if Trump returns the favour?
Ukraine are all over my Facebook saying how happy they are about this. Are they holding their noses and sucking up to trump or is there another reason?
I thought Zekensky was taking the piss out the US when he suggested Putin should be next on their list.
Miller's wife threatening Greenland on X isn't a great look
Would this have happened if Venezuela did not have any oil? I think we all know the answer to that.
Reports say that at least 40 people were killed in air strikes in this illegal action.
Regarding comparisons to Iraq, the U.S. Congress did approve the 2003 Iraq invasion through the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107–243), passed with large bipartisan majorities in October 2002, authorizing President George W. Bush to use force to enforce UN resolutions and counter the threat from Saddam Hussein's regime.
Congress and many others were maybe duped by false claims about WMD but that invasion was legal under US law and supported by the UN.
listen to what Trump has been saying, next is Greenland, Mexico, Canada, pour money into Europe to bolster Reform, AfD etc. Trump and his acolytes are looking to mold the world into their favour. And just as Lord Rothermere supported Hitler, there will be plenty in the UK cheering on US backed coups in Europe.
Yeehaa ! It’s cupcakes and candy bars Mr President.….
Yes that sprang to my mind too.
there will be plenty in the UK cheering on US backed coups in Europe.
Yes. Just as there are Venezuelans cheering on the USA despite Dementia-Don clearly stating his intention of taking their oil.
Trump is destroying the USA. They have to be as daft as Trump to think he could make Venezuela better.
There was never a vote in the UN on the US invasion of Iraq if memory serves, the resolution was pulled when hey realised it I wouldn’t succeed, also Kofi Annan described the invasion as illegal.
Aside from Trump and his administration, everyone else recognises what USA did is illegal: but legal or not, it makes absolutely no difference to USA.
From what I've read it already appears Trumps very cunning plan to get the Venezuelan oil is coming apart .. I don't think that will be a surprise to anyone.
Trump is destroying the USA. They have to be as daft as Trump to think he could make Venezuela better.
Considering Reform, I have this in the stones and glass houses camp of criticism (for the UK in general)
From what I've read it already appears Trumps very cunning plan to get the Venezuelan oil is coming apart .. I don't think that will be a surprise to anyone.
It appears that nobody bothered to ask the oil companies if they actually fancy the idea of investing billions and billions of dollars in an unstable country on the back of an enforced regime change
I can’t see why they’d have any reservations, as the last time the Americans tried something similar it all went brilliantly well
The voices in his head?
From what I've read it already appears Trumps very cunning plan to get the Venezuelan oil is coming apart .. I don't think that will be a surprise to anyone.
It appears that nobody bothered to ask the oil companies if they actually fancy the idea of investing billions and billions of dollars in an unstable country on the back of an enforced regime change
Has there been regime change?
The new president is the former VP. The government is still run by the same departments with the same staff headed by the same people.
The military has sworn allegiance to the new president.
All I see is that Mr and Mrs M have been removed. I'd think that a deal has been made that will make Venezuela stable for US business enforced by the government, less the Maduros.
Has anyone asked the Venezuelan people for their thoughts?