Forum menu
For the love of god tell me why the WTO is a good thing when it will put prices up in the shops and hard working brItish taxpayers out of jobs.
Don't ask questions or concern yourself with detail ... JUST BELIEVE!!!!
'Labour would be unable to nationalise the railways under new EU rules'
not true. but repeat it often enough i guess is the idea?
Guardian reports May as saying the govt is “looking closely at” the USA-Canada border as a model for the Irish problem.
Wonder how closely she’ll have to look before they see any problems…
Looks perfect. Can't see any CCTV cameras in that picture. Well, maybe one or two.
from the ft quoted in the grauniad
The US is offering Britain a worse “Open Skies” deal after Brexit than it had as an EU member, in a negotiating stance that would badly hit the transatlantic operating rights of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic.
British and American negotiators secretly met in January for the first formal talks on a new air services deal, aiming to fill the gap created when Britain falls out of the EU-US open skies treaty after Brexit, according to people familiar with talks.
The talks were cut short after US negotiators offered only a standard bilateral agreement. These typically require airlines to be majority owned and controlled by parties from their country of origin.
Such limits would be problematic for British carriers as they have large foreign shareholdings. Under existing arrangements, UK-based airlines are covered by the “Open Skies” treaty that requires them to be majority EU owned.
not true. but repeat it often enough i guess is the idea?
Indeed. And a Conservative government brought the England&Wales rail network back into public ownership… and had services in England run by a publicly owned body (before stupidly passing it back to the private sector to fail)… and we've always been subsidising rail… all while inside the EU. And it doesn't take more than a few moments to investigate if there's any state involvement in the railways by other EU states…
[i]kelvin wrote:[/i]
And it doesn’t take more than a few moments to investigate if there’s any state involvement in the railways by other EU states…
Not if your only source is Brexit Central
In a world with so much information and facts available it's actually quite hard or blinkered to miss everything that contradicts your position.
Depends. I don’t believe anything I read unless someone has taken the trouble to write it on the side of a bus. Anything worth writing has got to be worth writing on the side of a bus, right?
@aracer I read everything from thecanary via Huffington Post to Breitbart. Those two pieces from Brexit Central are spot on. So the onky source of remainer “trith” is what, The Guardian ? The paper that was given and declined to run fhe Oxfam abuse scandal ?
In relation To Corbyn’s / Labour’s new Brexit stance he took a pot shot at May today in Parliament for saying she would copy over the EU’s rules on state aid. As per the Brexit Central piece there is simply no way the EU will agree any trade deal or customs union without a counterparty agreeing to those. It was a key part of the Canada Deal that EU companies are able to bid for Canadian Government contracts.
I love the "can't nationalise" thing. I mean, the straight up fact is that Britain's railways are run by governments, just not us. The German government is Arriva's single shareholder. Abellio? That's the Dutch. C2C is owned by the Italian government. Kelois is the French. Everyone but us knows it's a good idea to have state owned railways- such a good idea that they bought 70% of ours.
But you don't even need to know that- you just need to remember that we've previously nationalised rail services. In fact the Tories did it.
In a world with so much information and facts available it’s actually quite hard or blinkered to miss everything that contradicts your position.
Says the man who has chosen to live in (and apply for permanent reisdence/citizenship ?) of a country with one of the most tightly controlled visa based immigration systems in the world. A country with a long track record of being far less liberal than most of Western Europe. Whoops.
Whoops
Look… a squirrel!
Jamba I posted link a couple of days ago debunking your garbage about not being allowed to nationalise stuff. I don't suppose you bothered to read it, because you never do.
there is simply no way the EU will agree any trade deal or customs union without a counterparty agreeing to those. It was a key part of the Canada Deal that EU companies are able to bid for Canadian Government contracts.
Yup… take back control by leaving EU… give that control, and more, away to the EU, USA etc as we try and get trade deals with them, from a position of weakness. So, our country trading on worse terms, with less say over our regulations, the tiny party at WTO and ISO, and all for what?
In a world with so much information and facts available it’s actually quite hard or blinkered to miss everything that contradicts your position.
true but first you feed THM and now he is[assumed] banned you engage with his attack poodle
If you choose to ignore the obvious noise an actual real debate can breakout, have you not realised they are both just here to spoil the thread as "lefties" spoiled it by bullying jamby with repeated demands for evidence and logical arguments.
he just have a bus and packet load of hope and hyperbole
Not just one squirrel there....
Private companies must be allowed to quote for any government contracts
EU rules on state aid have developed and tightened over time, what the Tories may or may not have done in the past is very old news.
Having state as existing shareholder very different than nationalising something
EU just rejected a French railway reorganisation saying it was state aid
If you can realistically nationalise things under EU rules why is Corbyn so upset by May’s announcement in her Mansion House speech and why has he been a lifelong Eurosceptic ?
Corbyn has zero chance of nationalising water, post and railways if we are in the EU or subject to state aid rules. Remember he and McDonnell don’t even want to pay current market value but some sort of historical privitisation cost.
You just explained how the constraints of future FTA will be greater than those imposed by EU membership. The fantasy politics of key UK players can't ignore the increased integration of global economies… isolation is stagnation.
Any sign of an answer to my WTO question?
No chance at all.
Private companies must be allowed to quote for any government contracts
Surely you could stipulate that all profits must be re-invested in the business instead of given to shareholders. You wouldn't get any private bidders - problem solved.
Anyway - if you can't renationalise things, how did we end up with Network Rail and government owned banks? I think the Network Rail model would work for other things, no? I think this is the kind of thing Labour is proposing.
The Tory party as a whole (If there is such a concept) is looking nervous, they (both camps of the party) are aware they are in real trouble and there is no obvious escape route (electorally or ecomomically)
For many in the Party this will be a defining moment as Brexit approaches - the question is how many of the Tory remainers will support Mrs May as she trundles over the cliff.
As Corbyn has split the Labour Party (but had some time to marshall it's resources) The Tory party will be split by the brinkmanship of bŕexit with no time to recover - as I pointed out this is the best that Mogg and the swivel eyed can hope for, however if you read around the edges and study the words (some said some not) its obvious how deep the fear is for the survival of theTory Party - Rees Mogg understands why people voted for brexit, he understands why that has not translated into an electoral mandate, he and the rest of the party know that it will take very little negative impact (post brexit) for them to not be electable for a long time- he also knows that a labour govt will and can throw borrowed money at post brexit land to keep the masses on side - until it really goes wrong of course.
There is a monumental failing in the tory Brexit proposition - it's all promises based on **** all
Then there is Labour who can make promises on tangible things- nationalisation, tuition fees etc.
It's a proper catch 22 for the right wing, to succeed you may have to fall on your sword.
Caveat emptor.....
how did we end up with Network Rail
Well, "very old news" is Jamba's rebuttal to that.
Those two pieces from Brexit Central are spot on.
No, they’re not. For all the reasons outlined above: they’re simply rose-tinted delusionism.
Private companies must must be allowed to quote for any government contracts
OK, let’s explore this furphy from a couple of angles:
1) Train franchise goes out to tender as usual, but no bids are received because within the terms are a need to, for example, freeze fares or some other commitment that would restrict profits. I guess it’s no trains or publicly owned trains now...
2) Does there even need to be a tender process? When was the last one for TfL?
Well, “very old news” is Jamba’s rebuttal to that.
But we were in the EU at the time no?
I thought so.
Didn't Northern Rock get 'nationalised'?
It certainly ended up in State ownership.
As did the bigger banks.
Can we except that both EU membership and any alternative trade deals, would place some limitations on the public/private interface, and move on? Of course increased public ownership of public services and infrastructure is possible as an EU member.
JC's already talked about a modern model of state ownership. So for example, the govt could buy out a company such as, I dunno, BT Openreach, just like any other company would. It could then buy shares and become the sole shareholder if it wanted.
If nothing else, I think this Daniel Hannan **** fantasy has aged well.
https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
**** me. That is bat shit crazy. Sort of fan fiction porn.
Just read it WOW
I take it back Jamby, you are the rational wing of the fervent Brexit brigade 😉
1,118 pages of remoaners moaning, Jambalaya trolls them, they froth at the mouth even more and 10 more pages are born.
Bloody brilliant, good work Jamba!
Blimey. What a nutter. Never mind Jamby, he makes Mogg seem realistic
🦇💩🤪
mitsumonkey
Member1,118 pages of remoaners moaning, Jambalaya trolls them, they froth at the mouth even more and 10 more pages are born.
Bloody brilliant, good work Jamba!
Well, I think we're all glad you turned up to make such a valuable contribution
Subscriber
Private companies must be allowed to quote for any government contracts
How come it is fine for our most important services to be national (NHS, police, fire services, army) yet for other critical services like transport and power these must be driven for corporate profit?
in our brave new world will our borders be patrolled by the lowest bidder? I mean G4S would probably be a prime bidder and that does not fill me with hope...
One of the biggest issues is next April will be about 1-2 years too late to implement any changes or solutions for borders or businesses. Nothing in government moves quickly. If orders for equipment are not already in place it will not be here by the time "Brexit" hits...
now or you could be a cynic and say from TMs last speech that the transition was potentially perpetual and that the EU will have no finance gap as we are still prepared to pay our way for services even if we don't have any say in the rules we have to follow. Or that really will will just be in but without the benefits and now totally subservient in the name of freedom
in our brave new world will our borders be patrolled by the lowest bidder? I mean G4S would probably be a prime bidder and that does not fill me with hope…
On the plus side, it would probably guarantee freedom of movement
That prediction of post brexit Britain brought a tear to my patriotic British eye. I had to have a nice mug of tea out of my special Queen Mum mug to regain my composure. Seriously, it makes the painted bus look sober and reflective. Since Jamba reads so many sources, I wonder if he has a quote on it? Or is he too busy getting into Mikesmith/zokes about living in Oz...despite having declared on here that he is going to retire elsewhere?
Yeah and missed the fact I'm now living in Manchester....still when you find yourself on a pitch without a ball it seems the only choice is to play the man. In other news still no good news...
Tough break Mike, still; the only way is up, eh?
Theresa May’s chances of securing a deep free-trade deal with the EU were dealt a blow when Stefaan de Rynck, the main adviser to the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, stressed that the rules of the single market required far more than her chief proposal – a mutual recognition of standards.
May claimed in her speech last Friday that the UK could negotiate a future trade relationship based on mutual recognition of standards overseen by a third party court, made up of EU and UK nominees.
So thats her nonsense about a free trade deal blown out of the water. as was clearly obvious to anyone. 3rd party court obvious non starter.
And also Irish PM says mays technological border is also a non starter.
More chickens come home to roost. Another step closer to the cliff edge
Tough break Mike, still; the only way is up, eh?
Well all my own choices, yet another remain vote for when it's needed though the next vote will need a bit bit of paper to cover leave choices.
[i]jambalaya wrote:[/i]
@aracer I read everything from thecanary via Huffington Post to Breitbart.
In which case I challenge you to post something from thecanary or HP supporting your points. If the only place which backs you up is BC, that really ought to tell you something. Even Breitbart is likely to be less delusional than BC regarding Brexit. But then clearly when you read something in BC you get all excited because it appears to back up your views.