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Glad to see May made the same points I have been making here on financial services. European companies and countries come to the UK to borrow money, £1.1 trillion in a single year. They can’t find that elsewhere in Europe
Explain to me how we are able to be so competitive when it comes to lending.
former permanent secretary at the Treasury
Are you suggesting that is his reaction to the speech?
Explain to me how we are able to be so competitive when it comes to lending.
Liquidity and competition
I’d hoped for some way in which she might say leaving was better than staying. I wouldn’t believe her of course, but I’d love for her to have tried. But no, nothing. She really does let you Tory boys down again and again.
She's after "the best possible Brexit"… I admire her determination to avoid matching the Brexit Bonus lies of some of her ministers (and the leader of the opposition). I won't thank her for willingly damaging the country, and blaming "the people" for making her do it, but the lack of straight out lies is refereshing.
But no, nothing. She really does let you Tory boys down again and again.
Not really they just here it's all amazing and we can't think of anything better, she could read Winnie the Pooh badly and they would cheer her as being awesome
she shoots she scores....
Remainers and Leavers join hands and do a Mexican wave.
err
Well that was another Classic May few more new sound bites rocked on cue.
dunno why everyones acting surprised, we all knew it'd be a huge balls up.
Rank Populism doesn't, and can't, deliver.
Are you suggesting that is his reaction to the speech?
the one they widely briefed the media about the content prior to deivery
What do you think its about if not that then?
I saw a thing on my FB feed today saying that every British PM in the last 40 years has been pro-EU and thinks Britain is better in.
I wonder what Jambalaya makes of that?
had enough of experts?
TJ you should like this piece. Bighlights how incompetent May and Hammond (delay/lack of no deal prep funding) have been in managing the negotiations. Sky said yesterday how the government now acknowledge their acceptance of the EU’s “scheduling” of talks has been a mistake (obvious from the beginning to anyone with half a brain)
http://commentcentral.co.uk/the-eu-has-us-bent-over-a-barrel/
I saw a thing on my FB feed today saying that every British PM in the last 40 years has been pro-EU and thinks Britain is better in.
I wonder what Jambalaya makes of that?
Worth remembering that every British PM in the last 40 years has also been pro-nuclear deterrent, pro-privatisation of the public sector, pro-military intervention in Iraq and pro-public sector pay restraint.
Presumably you putting them forward as paragons of good judgment indicates they were right about all those things too?
tumbleweed pic goes here
The opening line of your link.
The EU has recognised that the May Government will be prepared to pay any price to prevent a General Election and the risk of a Marxist Corbyn Government, says Peter Divey.
I see why it appealed to you
Its not news to know that the EU hold the cards and dictate terms nor is it news that May is weak, her govt divided and her ability to negotiate diminished to non existent. I am surprised all these right wingers did not under stand basic economics and relied on hubris. Easiest deal in history apparently.
We all said this would happen- its not a surprise
Worth remembering that every British PM in the last 40 years has also been pro-nuclear deterrent, pro-privatisation of the public sector, pro-military intervention in Iraq and pro-public sector pay restraint.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Read it before Jamba - and totally disagree with the basic premises.
It was obvious that theis is how it would play out. especially given theEU sidee like to prepare with detail and legal advise and the tories simply make vague statements without any preparation hence Mays most recent speech saying " we want this and that" when " this and that" is either not possible under EU law or previously ruled out as unnacceptable
For example the NI position is simply the EU following the GFA - something the tories forgot to do
It has become comical now.
The EU position has been crystal clear and logical ever since we invoked a 50.
The UK government has been talking complete nonsense ever since.
That's where we are now, no further in negotiations, but completely discredited in the eyes of the world for demanding things that would never be on the table.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Unless it's digital, then it's totally ****ed all the time, and completely useless. At which point it needs replacing but no-one wants to just yet.
TJ you should like this piece. Bighlights how incompetent May and Hammond (delay/lack of no deal prep funding) have been in managing the negotiations. Sky said yesterday how the government now acknowledge their acceptance of the EU’s “scheduling” of talks has been a mistake (obvious from the beginning to anyone with half a brain)
From that article "Germany and France have decided that now is the time for confrontation. Legal text in the withdrawal agreement will be uncompromising and will allow no leeway for a preferred UK technical solution concerning the Irish border. ...The EU is pushing the UK border into the Irish Sea. It is the only solution that will avoid a “hard” border on the island of Ireland. Full regulatory alignment or nothing. ....The de-facto break up of the UK should be intolerable to all, not just the DUP."
Curious as to how other forum users feel about that statement? I understand why Northern Irish unionists would feel aggrieved, they might feel less British if they were subject to greater regulatory allignment with the EU/ROI (although they are happy to diverge from UK laws if it persecutes gays, atheists or Nationalists) but how does the average English, Scottish or Welsh person feel? Do you care? Northern Ireland is just a money pit for the UK economy and it's heavily reliant in EU funding.
A hard border would certainly result in some resurgence in terrorist activity and cost millions to police. Conversely a Island Ireland customs border would only make the whole island more attractive to investors and and it could be huge for tourism, one of the biggest industries.
IMHO its just the last British colony left
unfortunately the Ulster plantation was such a success that 400 years later their offspring remain the most loyal of all the British to the crown...would imagine they would declare war on us and Ireland if we "leave them" to a united Ireland
The losing of NI does not worry me we should have done so centuries ago and its not quite 100 years since we ignored the a ireland vote , invaded and partitioned the country to create NI
That said decades of war/terrorism is the inevitable outcome of rewriting histories wrongs so its not something i would actively seek or want.
I think its completely stupid to have any border north south or east west. The whole border issue is one of Mays making with her ridiculous red lines.
two simple solutions have been ruled out by May. Stay in the customs union or cancel the whole nonsense
also there is a total falsehood there. the EU draft does not rule out a technological solution. It merely puts the onus quite rightly on May to come up with one.
TJ you could interpret May’s remarks on the birder two ways - she said we would help the EU find a solution rather than simply saying “we won’t put up a border our side and what you do is up to you”. One way of seeing that is that its a real option which clearly has been discussed, “rejected” by May (so far) but an option
There is nothing ridiculous with May’s red lines, the basics of leaving the EU are no single market and no customs union.
Anyway .. Mogg the Week 🙂
The red lines are ridiculous partly at least because it makes sticking to the GFA impossible while keeping the DUP on side
~the EU have a solution that May has agreed to - no regulatory divergance
TJ you could interpret May’s remarks on the birder two ways – she said we would help the EU find a solution
The EU already have a solution which has already been agreed by May and the U.K. Government, that if there's no acceptable solution there will be a common regulatory agreement between north and south and no border. It's up to maybot to provide an acceptable alternative, it's not that difficult a concept.
Curious as to how other forum users feel about that statement?
I favour a united Ireland, I have no issue with the north being returned.
I would genuinely like to see the UK broken up and would have liked to have seen that happen within the context of the EU. The answer in NI should at least involve a border poll. Hard brexit would seem to make union of NI and ROI more likely.
junkyard
unfortunately the Ulster plantation was such a success that 400 years later their offspring remain the most loyal of all the British to the crown…would imagine they would declare war on us and Ireland if we “leave them” to a united Ireland
I think there would be less than 10,000 people who would be genuinely sympathetic to that. Probably less the 5,000 in reality and maybe 100 - 500 actual loyalist terrorists. But the thing is there would be no need to change anything from a NI perspective. Stormont could still govern (or not) the six counties, British/Irish citizens could still retain their chosen identities and everyone in NI could still avail of billions in aid from the EU.
NI voted remain. So NI citizens would be getting exactly what the majority of NI voters wanted. They'd be remaining.
the EU have a solution that May has agreed to – no regulatory divergance
No, don’t forget the important caveat:, it applies only to: “those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North-South co-operation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement”.
Very clearly a caveat that means it does not apply to everything. So, which issues does it apply to? There’s wriggle room enough to drive a bus through the middle of that.
UK can happily exclude almost anything they like...
Correct its not on everything - just on almost everything. Manufactured goods, food, electricity, gas, etc etc Not really an wriggle room and if May trys to backtrack from that then its no transition, hardest of hard brexits and the blame firmly at her door
PMs being “pro-EU” .. well that’s because they are working on a 5yr Parliamentary term so always looking at the short term, certainly a number of them have tried to get reforms, Thatcher on the rebate, Blair/Brown declining to join the euro (thank God) , Cameron trying to resist arch Superstater Junker’s appointment. Then we have lifetime eurosceptic wouldbe PM Corbyn
Yes the EUs stance is totally logical, weaponise the border to try and restrict the UKs ability to do global trade deals
TJ yup if we get a WTo Brexit at 1-5 months notice thats entirely her fault. We should have set (say) a 12 month cutoff, ie now March 2018, if no transition/trade deal agreed then we are WTO
We want transition by March 18 and trade by Oct 18 but EU are stalling stalling for transition by Oct 18 and trade by ... well by never really ... just keep delaying and trying get more and more MONEY.
a 12 month cutoff, ie now March 2018, if no transition/trade deal agreed then we are WTO
Which countries WTO only model are you suggesting there?
So, Jamby, if you go to WTO how are you going to implement the required border with Ireland / EU and keep peace / the GFA alive. Remember the former head of the WTO said you can't just put your fingers in your ears and sing la,la,la at the top of your voice, WTO means UK has to implement a border.
EU are not stalling. They have had everything prepared and ready to start negotiations. EU side have a draft legal text of Decembers agreement ready. May and co haven't. May and co could have taken the initiative by creating their own draft legal text first - but they cannot because she cannot get the cabinet to agree on a settled position and cannot cbe confident of getting anything thru parliament.
EU side are waiting for May and Co and have been since triggering article 50. We still do not even have an agreed starting position for negotiations from May - and WTO means hardest of hard borders in NI run by the UK
This whole affair could only become more comical if we decide after Brexit to change the nation's name to Jinsy.
Correct its not on everything – just on almost everything. Manufactured goods, food, electricity, gas, etc etc
How about a citation rather than an opinion please TJ
unless of course you’re suggesting that there are going to be smugglers daisy chaining 13A extension cords over the border to corner the supply in black market electricity 😄
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"The de-facto break up of the UK should be intolerable to all, not just the DUP.”
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WT actual F? So we'll just ignore the roughly 50% of Scottish voters who voted to break up the UK, and that only 55% of NI residents want to stay in the UK. Never mind the Welsh,the mental Cornish, and all the English people who said they want Scotland to leave
unless of course you’re suggesting that there are going to be smugglers daisy chaining 13A extension cords over the border to corner the supply in black market electricity
If it's cheaper in the ROI, what makes you think they won't?
I was speaking to a chap who lives in a new house built onthe border. Front door in NI, back door in the republic. gonna be tricky for him
Ninfan - single market on the island of ireland in energy. Its completely integrated
https://www.uregni.gov.uk/news-centre/new-cross-border-single-electricity-market-goes-live
142 areas of cross border co operation some almost impossible to unpick]
analysis of the issues in NI
PMs being “pro-EU” .. well that’s because they are working on a 5yr Parliamentary term so always looking at the short term,
Can you explain that? I mean sure, leaving the EU might be long term project, but suggesting that the only reason it's not pursued is because of short termist governments, doesn't make any sense.
Yes the EUs stance is totally logical, weaponise the border to try and restrict the UKs ability to do global trade deals
Are you saying the EU should not protect its borders? Seriously?
I was speaking to a chap who lives in a new house built onthe border. Front door in NI, back door in the republic. gonna be tricky for him
Were you speaking to my neighbour?? What county? I've mentioned the chap who built his house on the site of the old British Customs house.....probably not ideal either.
Jimjam - it was actually somone on a helpline for what I forget. got to nattering with him
@mikesmith as you well know we will have the 40-60 trade deals the EU has copied over into our own name then new arrangements with Australia, NZ, Japan and the US. All in short order. Even the EU once it pulled its finger out concluded the Canada deal in 2 years. The first 6 where wasted arguing about dispute resolution organisations. Remember we have a massive balance of trade deficit, biggest in the EU. We are a very big customer for a lot of countries. Their trade deals with the EU will look less attractive once we leave.
@jimjam that was my point on “smuggling” the UK for its part currently just turns a blind eye for the sake of peace in Ireland. We could just do the same once we leave. May says she will do more and work with the EU but for me you can interpret her words as meaning we can just keep doing the same post Brexit. We won’t put up a border.
~Why willwe have the same trade deals as we have now as a part of the EU? My understanding is that is not possible without the agreement of both the EU and the other country
New arrangements? Takes 5- 10 years to sort out.